Deseret News | Both Demos and Republicans show contempt for Constitution

Reader comments
Walter E. Williams: Both Demos and Republicans show contempt for Constitution

KC | 12:24 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Beautiful article by Williams. This is the core principle that he speaks of in every single column, but today's column was very precise: Congress does not have the power over the Constitution.

It is alarming, indeed, what our values have become. God bless the USA.

Pelosi's failure to... | 4:41 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

answer a simple question from an inquisitve reporter indicates either arrogance or ignorance, perhaps both. Certainly, this is a legit question and I, for one, would like to hear the answer, if not from her, from any of our elected officials from Utah. And why do we allow this kind of constitutional abuse (if that is what it is) to occur? Where are the statesmen of this country? And why do we and they all stand by an simply watch it all happen?? I suppose the ageless combination of power, politics, and arrogance are still very much alive and well at the highest levels. Enough already!

Anonymous | 6:40 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Peaceable assembly is a really poor choice of an example, because it is Constitutionally protected. Using that line of reasoning, protesters would have to show where in the Constitution it says Congress *can't* do the health care reform.

Anyone? Anyone?

Comments continue below

An answer | 7:47 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

An answer is appropriate. From the Preamble to the Constitution: "promote the general welfare" is certainly a justfication for improving the delivery of health care.

RL | 7:54 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Show me in the Constitution where we are "Forced" to buy car insurance?

NewsreaderUt | 8:14 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Lets all not forget our prior president called our constitution only a PIECE OF PAPER! That was a slap in the face for the original writers who were many points ahead in inteligence!

@6:40 | 8:23 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

No problem. The enumerated powers provision is there to specifically say what Congress CAN do, and they aren't supposed to do anything that's not on that list. See The Federalist Papers, where Madison explains this in depth. If you want to argue it, I'll look up specific quotes for you. And the 9th and 10th amendments, which together state that everything else belongs to the states or the people. The whole point of the Constitution is to give the federal government specific, limited powers, and acts as a restricting document.

And don't go to the general welfare clause either. For the first 150 years the general welfare clause was understood to mean general stuff that benefited the nation as a whole, not benefits for individual people. There are also plenty of quotes from the Founding Fathers specifically explaining this, and that to do otherwise would completely gut their intent, leaving us with an unrestrained monster of a government with no limits on it.

Hmm, sort of describes what we've got now, doesn't it?

Ultra Bob | 8:32 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

The big lie, often propagandized by people like Walter, is that government is bad and government by the people is especially bad.

And even worse than that is big government by the people.

The role of government is to govern, that’s why it is called “government”.

Our government was created with the welfare of it’s people in mind. And the welfare of people means that some control must be exercised over individuals.

The purpose of government is to provide that control. And that control is what makes our live so rich and pleasant.

The American Constitution is a great help in managing the growth of our nation and government.

But I don’t think the Constitution was created to be an iron cast mold in which we all must fit. I think the Constitution should grow as the nation grows.

We are not ever out of the control of government. At the start of our lives, the government is our Mom, then Dad. Then school government, city government, county and state government, the military, our national government, and our employer. The finally life itself enforces the final rule, we die.

Wrong again | 8:33 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Williams is wrong, of course.

As with Medicare and Medicaid, the federal government has the
Constitutional power to reform our health care system.

The 10th amendment to the U.S. Constitution states that the powers not
delegated to the federal government by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it
to the states, are reserved to the states... or to the people. But the
Constitution gives Congress broad power to regulate activities that have an
effect on interstate commerce. Congress has used this authority to regulate many aspects of American life, from labor relations to education to health care to agricultural production. Since virtually every aspect of the heath care system has an effect on interstate commerce, the power of Congress to
regulate health care is Constitutional.

Roland Kayser | 8:42 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Apparently it is constitutional to provide healthcare to someone who is 65, but not to someone who is 64.

To "An Answer" | 8:50 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

That was great, I will remember that and post it the next time some nut makes the same dumb argument.
Thanks for that good answer!

uncannygunman | 8:53 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

The Constitution is pretty darn short--the instructions to your last small kitchen appliance are probably longer. So no, the founders did not specifically enumerate each and every thing the federal government can do.

All Knowing | 9:07 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

@RL 7:54 a.m.:

"Show me in the Constitution where we are 'Forced' to buy car insurance?"

It's in "promote the general welfare." Everything they do is in that phrase.

Unfortunately, that phrase also contains the seeds of our demise as a nation.

Brother Chuck Schroeder | 9:11 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

DO you think they give a rats-behind, about both Demos and Republicans show contempt for Constitution, when they are all corrupt and are getting rich over oil and the Middle East?. OPEC says demand for crude oil will slip in the industrialized nations next year if oil prices climb and are sustained above their current level. The warning Wednesday came as the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, supplier of about 35 percent of the world's crude, revised its 2010 global crude demand up to 85.07 million barrels per day 75,000 barrels per day higher than its assessment last month. OPEC said in its November report that if prices climb and are sustained at higher levels, it would result in a 1 percent decline in demand in industrialized nations.

If its unconstitutional... | 9:31 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

sue.

Copycat Congress | 9:32 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Forced insurance was Mitt Romney's plan for Massachusetts.

Anonymous | 10:05 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

guys like "UltraBob" really scare me. He seems to know what is best for all of us, as with any dictator. I treasure the freedom guarantees in the constitution. But they are being trampled by our politicians.

Locke | 10:08 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

"Promote the general welfare" has almost nothing to do with individuals. "General" means "the nation", like Mormons use the word "General" authority meaning someone leading the whole church. The word "welfare" means "well-being" or "good condition," not hand-outs.

The 10th Amendment clearly limits Federal powers to those specifically enumerated. Health care and welfare are NOT enumerated.

Williams is right that Congress and the Obama administration routinely ignore the Constitution. Pelosi's dismissal of the question is good evidence of her contempt for the Constitution.

DMH | 10:17 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Williams is correct in his assessment. I can definately see that there are very few politicians in Washington that really care about the Constitution and what it stands for. They are continually doing whatever they can to create bigger federal government and minimize the state governments. This is all contrary to what the Founding Fathers had in mind for this country. Our current government has forgotten that it is the States that make up our country not the federal government. The States are supposed to have the powers to govern their own people with some support from the federal government, but not a total takeover. The governors of each state needs to make a stand against the federal government and take back their rights as guaranteed by the Constitution. We as citizens cannot continue to ignore these huge power grabs by the federal government that are slowly taking away our freedoms.

Sam | 10:43 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

"Promote the general welfare" is a statement explaining the purposes of the enumerated powers in Article I section 8. But it is NOT a power in and unto itself. Nor can it be a source of legislation.

The argument about car insurance is non sequitur. States require car insurance, not the federal government. That is why different insurance laws apply in different states. States can require it under their state constitutions. And the 10th amendment to the federal constitution points that out.

Tim D | 10:49 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

And how is the Constitution to grow? I think the framers thought it would be ammended. What we have today is a political ruling class that believes it (the Constitution) is rubber and can be stretched to fit whatever political correct issue is before them. It takes too much work to amend it - and they might loose. Its much easier to simply ingore it.

I also believe that the Constitution was built upon the principle that government derives its powers from the people. I'm going to type this next bit really slow so you lefties can grasp it. IF THE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO IT ON THEIR OWN HOW CAN THEY DELEGATE THAT POWER TO THE GOVERNMENT? THEY CAN'T, BUT DO IT ANYWAY BECAUSE WE HAVE BECOME A NATION THAT BELIEVES OUR RIGHTS COME FROM THE GOVERNMENT. THEY DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE POWERS OF THE GOVERNMENT COME FROM THE LEGITIMATE RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE. WHEN GOVERNMENT BECOMES GOD GOVERNMENT DETERMINES EVERYTHING.

Williams article | 10:50 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

is genius. And the many of the poster hereon, provides the explanation. A great Russian writer tells it all, his argument that mankind will put the chains on himself for the promise of bread. Now it is America's turn to prove it once again.

@Sam | 11:25 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Brilliant coherent response and explanation of the general welfare clause which is being perverted into a power.

Promote the general welfare | 11:48 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

An answer | 7:47 a.m

My general welfare requires food, clothing, housing, and heat. Can I expect a check from you or from the government?

State's Rights | 11:49 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

If you asked Sen. Pelosi if she could name ANY one area of our lives that the Federal Government doesn't have the right to regulate and control... I suspect should couldn't name ONE!

That's not the way it was in our original government. The Federal Government's power to regulate and control people's lives was VERY limited.

They wanted people in the STATES to be able to elect representatives and influence their OWN laws at a LOCAL level.

Our ORIGINAL government very intentionally gave more power to the States and did everything possible to give States representation and freedom to let the people be governed MOST by their most LOCAL government, with the Federal Government taking care of the limited set of nationwide concerns (as directed by the votes from the majority of the States).

The STATES were a big deal in our original government. Not so much anymore.

BOTH parties have become the party of BIG Government, Centralized Control, Federal Regulations, with very little being left to the States (without the Feds having the right to regulate and mandate how they do things).

Liberals think Conservatives just want Anarchy. They just want LOCAL control!

@Anonymous | 11:53 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Someone asked where the Constitution states you can't have government health care.

One simple thing to remember concerning the Constitution is this: The Constitution is RESTRICTIVE concerning government powers and LIBERATING with regard to personal rights.

That is to say The Congress, for example, can only legally enact within its enumerated powers (Article 1, Section 8 and Tenth Amendment) and is further specifically restricted by the First Amendment etc.

By that amendment Congress can neither prescribe or proscribe religion. It cannot abridge freedom of speech or freedom of the press. It cannot infringe the right to keep and bear arms.

Unless the Congress is specifically empowered to set up or run its own health system or to supervise the existing health care system it cannot legally do it.

The U.S. Constitution rigorously restricts the powers of Congress and the federal government.

Re "Ultra Bob | 8:32 a.m." | 12:01 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Ultra Bob | 8:32 a.m. gave a perfect diatribe on "Cradle to Grave government". I suggest EVERYONE read it.

His assumption that Government controls your life from the day you are born... is your mom and dad... your school your ruler... from the day you are born until you finally break free from government regulation by dieing... THAT was precious!

Most Conservatives believe we live FREE from the day we are born until the day we die, with minor and infrequent government interventions if needed (and then at the most LOCAL level first... and escalating to the FEDERAL level only in rare circumstances when nationwide consideration and impact is needed).

It's NOT anarchy! It's just SELF-rule as much as possible and let community/government get involved as needed (instead of in ALL times and in ALL places). You should try it sometime.

Bil Baumgardner Sr. | 12:02 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

So, how do you like the changes so far?? Why does it shock so many people to see "KING H" & his cronies do what they are doing? What did you THINK, "IF" you did before you voted, they were going to do when they are given the power to do any thing they want to do?????? Like the lady used to say, "Where's the beef?" Well, we are still saying, "Where's the birth record?"
Thank you, "IF" you post it.

Why enumerate them? | 12:12 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Why did the framers of the Constitution feel the NEED to enumerate and limit the few specific powers given to the Federal Government and say ANYTHING else is prohibited... if when they said, "Promote the general welfare", they INTENDED to say that the Federal government has the Green-Light to do ANTHYING THEY WANT?

@ Bil Baumgardner Sr. | 12:49 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Since one of the things Obama ran on was changing health care, I quite like the fact that he is handling it.

As for the birth certificate, Hawaii has said he was born there - I am sorry you do not feel that is good enough, but that is your personal problem, not the problem of the rest of us.

Anonymous | 12:56 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

"General Welfare" refers to things that need to be handled by the Federal Government because they cannot be handled effectively or efficiently on a state, city, or individual level.

Health care affects the entire nation through increased costs, spread of illness, loss of life, disabilities, and loss of income. Individuals and cities do not have enough power to deal with this themselves. States either do not have the power to deal with this or have refused to deal with. That leaves the Federal Government and puts it clearly under the General Welfare clause.

Baumgardner Bill Sr. | 2:17 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Hawaii SAID?? No, that is not what the Constitution means by PROVING it. And it is ALL of our problems. I just hope & pray that every one that cast a vote for him will suffer the wrath he is bringing down upon our country. If you are not accountable for your statement, then you will be over looked when the wrath hits. :) Thank you, "IF" you post this.

Earl | 3:41 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

When all is said and done, arguing about constitutionality is an academic exercise. There is NOTHING that will keep the Feds from doing whatever they want EXCEPT the threat of losing an election. The U.S. Constitution IS DEAD and has been for decades.

General Welfare Clause | 5:35 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

If I was Nancy, I would have had the same emotional reaction, but I would have answered, - the general welfare clause - .

Oh I know conservatives disagree with this clause, but the constitution comes as a package, we need to pay attention to all of it, not just those parts we like or agree with.

All Knowing | 9:47 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

@Promote the general welfare 11:48 a.m.:

"Can I expect a check from you or from the government?"

When you get to be 66 you can get a Social Security check from the government. Or food stamps now if you qualify. Go for it!!

Anonymous | 10:31 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Notice conservatives like to talk, but they will never put their money where their ideology is. Walter, take your argument to our Supreme Court.

All Knowing | 10:58 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

@Earl 3:41 p.m.:

"The U.S. Constitution IS DEAD and has been for decades."

You are mostly correct. But there are parts that still have some degree of life, i.e., the First and second Amendments dealing with freedom of religion, the press, the right to assemble and the right to own a gun. But the right to own a gun is starting to show some disintegration cracks.

Czars | 10:10 a.m. Nov. 12, 2009

The "appointment of tyrannical czars to control our lives" began with Richard Nixon. Give it up already. It's a tired and worn out talking point with no basis in reality.

WEW | 2:11 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009

Just when I thought there was no help for WALT, he writes:

"...It's not a matter of whether you are for or against Congress' health-care proposals. It's not a matter of whether you're liberal or conservative, black or white, male or female, Democrat or Republican or a member of any other group...".

I wouldn't suggest letting RUSH, SEAN, and CLONES know about your thoughts.

I think it was CHAIRMAN STEELE who said "they" were comming after everyone who is not in lockstep with the party talking points.

I see | 3:06 p.m. Nov. 13, 2009

I see there is someone on the board of censors who does not want us to know that James Madison WHO WROTE THE CONSTITUTION defined the general welfare as the ennumerated powers of Article one, Section 8.

Interesting. I have now tried three times to state that simple fact.

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.