Deseret News | Some are worth big pay

Reader comments
Readers' forum: Some are worth big pay

When? | 2:01 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Too anyone who whines about people who EARN high salaries; when was the last time a poor person offered you a job? When was the last time a poor person stated a new business and created wealth! How much taxes do poor people pay? Without successful people innovating, inventing and taking huge risks with the incentive to get a return on their investments, where does that leave you socialists?

Tango | 2:59 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Excellent point, it's a shame that so few grasp it these days.

Yes, there are overpaid and fairly worthless individuals in the world (see: Celebrities, Sports Stars), but the business class of America is the wrong place to lay the blame for all of your problems.

Good first comment as well, though I would argue one point of it - (When was the last time a poor person stated a new business and created wealth!)

Poor people start businesses and make wealth all the time; in fact, that's where we all start. We like to draw distinctions between rich and poor, yet the premise of America is that those barriers only limit the innovative.

S2 | 5:40 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

So many have been dumbed down in school and by victimization attitudes that we are no longer a people hard at work, but hardly working and pernicioulsy envious of those who do.

Comments continue below

There's a difference. | 7:03 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

The difference between Huntsman and Miller and the overpaid lawyers and athletes is that Huntsman and Miller were not paid, they EARNED their money.

wallofvoodoo | 7:54 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Those two are worth the money, as are many others. To say that no one is worth that much is incorrect. I have a problem with people who don't do their job & still get 7 figure incomes & bonuses.

Myth | 7:57 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

"Without successful people innovating, inventing and taking huge risks with the incentive to get a return on their investments, where does that leave you socialists?" There are two problems with this fantasy, first of all that's rarely how the world works. Most companies that return enormous wealth to their founders either start with someone elses money (who receives a resonable return) or start with nothing and are just plain lucky (little to lose in the first place). The second problem is the premise that the original idea and the associated risk (usually much smaller than claimed) is worth much more than the actual work that is done to make the idea successful (done by the workers). Modern social democracys search for a reasonable balance between the risk and work issue. Unfortunately as long as Americans continue to belive in the hyperbolic myth of "risk" deserves it all, most Americans will be confined to a near slave worker status with a closet full of worthless junk and a credit card bill they can't pay.

Who has more to lose? | 8:39 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Myth

"The second problem is the premise that the original idea and the associated risk (usually much smaller than claimed) is worth much more than the actual work that is done to make the idea successful (done by the workers)"

The risk to the employee is the greatest since the worker is likely to face starvation or death if his employer makes poor business decisions which result in him laying off workers.

The employer will more often recuperate any losses if he fails and would likely been able to create a safety net of savings from the extreme profits that he made from the labor of his employees while their employees would have to keep coming back each day to just make their mortgage or rent, buy food, clothing and provide shelter for their families.

Who has more to lose? The person who has no say in the decisions that could take the business down and who is paid s low wage or the person who makes all the decisions and who accrues extreme profits as a result of maximizing the labor of his employees while reducing the wages and benefits he pays to those employees?

minimum wage....... | 8:45 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

for everybody, that way it's fair!

Who has the greatest risk? | 8:46 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Myth,

"Unfortunately as long as Americans continue to belive in the hyperbolic myth of "risk" deserves it all, most Americans will be confined to a near slave worker status with a closet full of worthless junk and a credit card bill they can't pay."

The funniest thing about all of this is the person who is taking the greatest risks is the person who places their complete trust and well being of their family in a single person or company and hope that they will make correct decisions. Instead of being able to go from one business on one day to another on another day they must sell their labor to single individuals or company for 8 hours a day and 5 days a week.

They wake up in the morning, got to work for 8 hours and come home having made between $50 and $250 bucks if they are lucky and have budgeted to pay all of their bills on time and have $10,000 in savings. The next day they go to work only to find the business is bankrupt and they are out of a job. Five months of job searching later they are homeless.

To Myth | 8:48 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

I'm guessing that most slaves would be highly outraged and offended by your truly thoughtless statement that "most Americans will be confined to a near slave worker status" Even the poorest among us generally have color TV's, at least one automobile, Ipods, microwaves, lawnmowers, game stations, and eat a lot of pretty fattening food. Obesity rates among the poor are higher than among the wealthy. Near slave status? C'mon - your hyperbole and exaggeration leaves you with no credibility whatsoever.

Who has the greatest risk? | 8:57 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Myth,

"Most companies that return enormous wealth to their founders either start with someone elses money (who receives a resonable return) or start with nothing and are just plain lucky (little to lose in the first place)."

People see the investment of monetary capital in a business as a huge risk but it isn't when compared to the risks that a person takes by dedicating the majority of their talents, efforts, resources and time to a single employer with an expectation that everything will turn out and that their employers will make sound business decisions. A owner can see the downturn in their business a long time before an average employee who is not consulted about business decisions and can prepare for it while the employee can't prepare because he isn't in the loop.

He is totally trusting that his employer will make the right decisions. A wise employee will save a lot of money, invest it and budget for the unexpected but he will never be able to save or invest enough to prevent the inevitable misfortune that may befall him if his employer is a loser because no amount of savings can last months.

@ Myth | 9:00 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Thanks Glen Beck for your hating logic. Thanks for trying to put people who don't think like you and Glen into a box that fits all. We don't like the way your party tore America apart. Thats it in a nut shell. Your thinking tore America to bits, and only made a few more billionairs during the neocon years.
Silly person.

Oh Please | 9:41 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

I have absolutely no problem with anyone making as much as he can, as long as it's done honestly. My problem is with the pirates of big business who CONTINUE to rob and pillage, turning debts into "assets" and sinking our economic ship with their unethical conduct, taking bonuses for managerial failure even after being bailed out by our tax money. How many Madoffs, Koerbers, etc., does it take for us to wake up and realize we're being burgled?

Myth | 10:07 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Who has mor to lose/risk. You sound kind of snarky but I obviously agree with you so I'm not sure what your emotional point is.

"To myth" Even the poorest among us generally have color TV's, at least one automobile, Ipods, microwaves, lawnmowers, game stations, and eat a lot of pretty fattening food. Obesity rates among the poor are higher than among the wealthy. This is the closet full of worthless junk I talked about. Regarding the slave status refer to "who has the most to lose"

@Myth | 10:25 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

It is clear to see you have never started a business.

How Much is too much | 11:11 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Moronic to say that no one is worth $300K. But how much is too much? Less than a year ago, Goldman Sachs was needing a taxpayer bailout. Company survives... Great. Now with their profits they are set to pay out an average of $700,000 per employee.

Does ANYONE not think that is toooo much?

Myth | 11:21 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

@Myth, wanna bet? I just did it with a soul and coscience.

Bill Baumgardner Sr. | 12:21 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

When you say $300,000.00, you are talking peanuts compared to our, way over paid, sports people, just for an example. There is NO one worth $500,000,000.00 or any where close to that figure!!! I do not care WHAT he has done or not done. And any one that really believes that you can start a hot chocolate shop on a street corner & end up with a string of hotels etc. by working hard & being honest, I have a fresh water lake out in the middle of the Atlantic ocean I'll sell you for a hot chocolate. I have always known that NO working person can become filthy rich unless it is given to him or he steals it & there are MANY things that come under the heading of "Stealing". Thank you, "IF" you post this.

Progressive taxes the answer | 7:00 a.m. Nov. 12, 2009

Given that people at the top of any company have more political power than say the janitor, and given that the executives have proven that they will over pay themselves, [there are examples in the news all the time of executives walking away with millions even as companies are failing]. It is only right that society interveine in executive pay. Its clear they won't self regulate.

Unlike what Rush Limbah says, this is my business. If some people are taking in more than they earn, then someone else has to take in less than they earn. This type of executive behavior impacts me and others like me.

I say a good janitor is worth a lot of money. If an office were dirty, how much productivity would there be? A good secretary is worth a lot of money, she is often the first impression people get of a company.

You can make the case that anybody is worth a lot of money. Yet only those with connections, with political power seem to get the big bucks.

For this reason, progressive taxes are fair. Those who make the most, tend to take more than they really earn.

Anonymous | 10:51 p.m. Nov. 12, 2009

When was the last time a rich man actually accumulated wealth without taking it first from the little people producers. It's hard for a poor man to provide a job when the rich man takes a portion of his labors so that he remains perpetually stagnant and dependent.

It is stunning in these enlightened times that people assume that the size of one's bank account equals earned.

All wealth flows from the bottom up. The exception would be like an individual software developer who finds a niche. He produces a product utilizing his skill, his time, his perseverance and without robbing the employees of their labor.

With virtually everything else in life, we have a system of measurement to make certain determinations. Even the dollar itself was once measured with precious metals to determine value.

Like the dollar today salaries are subjective without a standard to justify true value. Granted, some occupational value could be subjective such as the arts, but generally speaking if we had a scientific formula to measure the actual value of an individuals productivity, I think there would not be a huge disparity between the highest and the lowest earners.

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.