Deseret News | Is education still a priority?

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In our opinion: Is education still a priority?

my slc | 12:12 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Is education a priority in Utah?

No.

Too many children, not enough tax dollars.

wallofvoodoo | 7:19 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Not a priority in Utah.

Ultra Bob | 7:30 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Some time ago the conservative radio talk show host Michael Medved said that “preparing all students for higher education should not be done, only those who can afford higher education should be prepared for higher education”.

Actually that is not an exact quote but is essentially what he said. Several other conservatives echoed the same theme.

Later in these columns in a discussion of people voting, several conservatives voiced the notion that only the “informed” people who had studied the issues should vote. The uninformed should stat home.

Forty some years ago we moved to Utah. Among the many reasons was the public educations system. Today, under constant attack from what seems to be conservative forces, the public education has lost it previous good reputation.

It is probably logical that as conservatism grows in Utah that the level of education will change in it’s nature.

Comments continue below

Worrywort | 7:31 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

The cost of education is steep, especially when you consider all the benefits paid to educators. The Utah Retirement System and its defined benefit pension program is still subject to the nuances of the investment market. The URS actuarial study shows that the value of assets underlying the program fund is only 84% of the actuarial liability. Folks, that is called underfunding.

There are some 27,358 FTE equivalent licensed school district employees participating in that underfunding. If the underfunding for this group is $1 billion, then the taxpayers owe $36,552 for each FTE for services already rendered.

The actuarial study considers that URS is going to make a 7.75%-8.0% return on the invested monies. Over the last ten years they have only made a blended return of 4.57%, not too bad for investing billions, but not at the hurdle rate.

So how do we expect to make up the difference? Take greater investment risks? Increase the percentage of funding for the defined benefit program by raising taxes? Or, lower or change the nature of the retirement program.

The Legislature needs to do something, and quick.

@ my slc | 7:33 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I don't think you read the article - this deals with the education of adults, not children.

However, I do agree that education is not a priority. And, as rude as this sounds, this is one of the areas that definitely is affected by party philosophy and how far into the wings one is.

Many on the far right do not feel women should be educated - they feel the woman's place is in the home as a mother. (In all fairness, I will state that many on the left feel that if a woman is not going to use her education she should not get one.) Additionally, a lot of the verbiage from right-wingers slams on "elitists" and those who have college educations "instead of real-life knowledge." There also seems to be a fear on the right that colleges are hot spots of liberal thinking that will "corrupt" conservatives.

All these things work together to create an atmosphere where not only is education not a priority, it is something to be feared.

Let the free market | 7:37 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Let the free market guide the trend. If Utahns decide education is not a priority, we'll lose high-tech business opportunities. We have plenty of fast food restaurants and baby sitting services!

A Republican Delegate | 7:49 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I am a consistent delegate in an effort to make my party more committed to education -- which is the future for this state. I will keep trying. I am not impressed with Republican efforts to improve education in Utah. We are starving education.

Remove immigrants | 8:02 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

from the numbers and then tell us how we are doing. Let's compare apples to apples. We need to educate immigrants, but let's not create false assumptions that our education in Utah is failing.

Rockman | 8:40 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

What is the objective of this article? It seems that there is a bit of a plea for money to be directed to education, but what with all the statistics about where we as a state rank. Why do we always look to compare ourselves, what doesn't matter?

I believe that there are many solutions to improving the education system. I also believe that very little will be done because so much attention is paid too trying to squeeze every last dollar out of the tax payer with very little, if any effort made to make substantial changes. The issue that needs immediate review is that of continuing to follow the same pattern as the past. We do not need more money (I think we need less), we need to start with a new model.
As has been stated many times; If you keep doing the same thing, but are wanting a different result. You are insane!

@Worrywort | 8:56 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Worrywort, first, your comments have nothing at all to do with the article. You obviously have some agenda you are trying to push. Second, according to their own officers, the Utah Retirement System is statistically sound. The "underlying fund" you mention has been funded much lower than it is now (84% was actually earlier this year, it has recovered significantly since then) and much higher. These fluctuations are normal. Those wanting to "cut retirement" for educators have been pushing this agenda for years. They obviously see the current economic downturn as an opportunity to pounce. Why they continually attack teacher compensation, I just don't understand. Wouldn't we want to increase compensation to attract the best teachers possible?

Go Utes.... | 9:14 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I can better explain those numbers....

The problem is not the number ATTENDING college and earning a degree, it is the number of people able to find higher paying and technical jobs and staying in Utah AFTER college that is the real issue behind those numbers.

What is Utah's number 1 export?

College educated people.

Joel Wright | 9:27 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

The problem is that Utah spends far too much money on the elite universities (U of U and USU), and then keeps spending too much money at the places with little growth (WSU, SUU and CEU). The best way to boost the number of students graduating and benefiting from college is to start funding our universities by the number of students they enroll and graduate, with bonuses given for graduates in key areas (engineering, teaching, science, etc.). Then fund research entirely separate, and base funding for research on the benefit to the tax payer. Note these simple suggestions are heresy if mentioned at a meeting of the Board of Regents, which is why we have this disturbing trend which will almost certainly continue.

Education? | 9:46 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

This article confuses education with something more commonly known as "schooling." While education is a comprehensive lifelong practice that cannot be easily quantified, "schooling" is a competition in which we categorize people who possess certain documents that ultimately qualify them for a particular tax bracket.

Schooling is designed to fit people into common classes or types; all of them behaving and thinking along similar lines. While not etymologically related, the word "school" as it applies to fish is now ironically similar to "school" as it applies to human training. Schooling is what fish do. It is also what people indoctrinated in the processes of "getting a good job" do.

I do not sympathize with the hand-wringing author of this opinion piece. Lack of education is a personal tragedy indeed, but I suspect what we really worry about has dollar signs attached to it and is called instead by the name of "economy."

Gladys | 10:25 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Coming from out of state, I have noticed that going to college is not expected of my peers that grew up here -- whereas there was never a doubt in the mind of the people I went to high school with that we would be taking the next step of University. Utah's underfunded primary education does not foster the desire to learn, which could translate into a lessened desire to attend college in general.

Poor Return of investment.. | 11:24 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I'm an engineer, not a business major --
but isn't the answer called ROI [Return on Investment].

Why pay for something you have no intention of keeping??

Schooling and Education are worthless without JOBS!

Utah did great paying for my 18 years of education.
Boeing and MicroSoft recruit very heavily from Utah colleges and universities.

Too bad Seattle and Wahington State will collect and benefit from my $150K income and taxes for the next 40 years of my life.

....

Fear | 11:43 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

For some, education in Utah is not a priority because of fear that children might learn something other than what parents might want them to learn. That attitude stays with families through generations and carries with students into their decisions about university studies.

re: worrywort
What those who speak in terms of unfunded liabilities fail to disclose is the fact that the "liability" includes ALL who are a part of the the URS program regardless of their retirement status. If the URS had to suddenly pay out to all of it's members than there would certainly be a shortage. That is a very unlikely scenario--impossible. The majority of URS members (which include all state employees not just teachers) are continually paying into the system. It remains solvent, and will remain solvent so long as people continue to die at an acceptable rate. Luckily, the health care industry will help that out.

Harv12 | 3:11 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Since the advent of so many options, i.e. charter schools and specialty schools, including district divisions to create smaller less cost effective school districts, as well as allowing city Mayors to use educational tax dollars for city RDA projects, educational dollars are severely diminished. Legislative laws aimed at encouraging schools to be run by parents instead of professional educators, it's no wonder education is struggling. Who would want to be an educator today?

Young state changing demographi | 3:46 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

It is not about lack of priority it is about: 1) a sky high percentage of the population in public school system and 2)a major influx of persons who have low education levels and/or those who do not value education.

Life long Republican | 5:33 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

It's only going to get worse if the do away with teacher retirement.

Just look at every education article. Someone (worrywort) is already throwing around stats about the educators retirement fund and how the "legislature better hurry up and do something". I'm guessing that is an actual legislator that is on the committee that keeps writing those but no way to verify that.

If we keep tearing down the profession, who would want to be a teacher? About the only thing they have left for benefits is retirement. When we make teaching an hourly job instead of a profession, even less students will be receiving the kind of education they need.

Fear (poster above) hit the nail on the head. Read that post again to get the TRUTH about retirement.

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