Deseret News | Endless black hole

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Readers' forum: Endless black hole

Roland Kayser | 12:07 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

People will go to jail for not having insurance? Please tell me what your source of information is on that one.

Ethan | 12:13 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

You obviously don't understand the bill. Try researching it and you'll see that your conclusions are way off the mark.

ECR | 4:35 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Many thanks to the writer for this reasoned argument. Some writers stoop to the low tactics of hyperbole and panic while this writer will have none of that. And I'm so glad she didn't try to justify her thoughts with evidence or logic. Such a tactic is so bothersome and is just too difficult to keep my attention. Keep up the good work and maybe the day will come when none of us can afford health care. Happy day.

Comments continue below

Patsy | 5:36 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

But it's OK with you now if people loose their homes or can't feed their children because one of them get sick and doesn't have health insurance?

Jail? | 7:03 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

No one is going to jail. You need to turn of the Fox news and the talk radio and actually read what the bail entails.

Oh please. | 7:18 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

If there's an "endless black hole" it's our current dysfunctional and ruinously expensive system of health insurance.

I'm thrilled to see the House of Representatives pass the bill they did. Now if only the Senate will act in support of this long-overdue reform.

Health Insurance reform isn't remotely the boogy-man some people are making it out to be.

Anonymous | 7:51 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I empathize with these comments. However, the only solution is a national health system similar to that in Western Europe. If we keep trying to preserve those entities that profit from illness, one way or another we will fail.

to:Sherrie Amerson | 7:55 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Your husband woke you up for that?

And please quote your source for people going to jail and not feeding their children.

The ultra-far-ring-wing-nut-cakes are scared by the college drop out, fear mongering, radio talk show hosts.

Maybe THEY should be the ones going to jail.

Anonymous | 8:16 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

If this bill passes the Senate, how many people will not be able to even feed their children?

Answer: Zero

If the parents are in jail, the kids go where?

The parents will not go to jail, and the kids will finally get to go see a Doctor which is what this bill is all about!

lost in DC | 8:18 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Roland Kaiser, I know queen nancy doesn't want the bill available for public scrutiny, but here you go.

H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax."

"If the government determines that the taxpayer's unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply..."

"Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years."

According to the Congressional Budget Office the lowest cost family non-group plan under the Speaker's bill would cost $15,000 in 2016.

Ernest T. Bass | 8:20 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Another confused, deceived republican. Big surprise there.

RedShirt | 8:21 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

TO those liberals who are buying into the government takeover of health insurance, I have this to ask.

If one of the problems is that people cannot afford insurance, what will change if they are now forced to buy government insurance or pay fines? In other words, if a person lives paycheck to paycheck, how is increasing taxes going to help that person pay for insurance?

Hurray! | 9:04 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Or, Go to jail and THEN get healthcare,
either was it's a win-win situation!

Fear Monger | 9:08 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Another Bush-style "keep the people afraid" Republican.

?? Riddler ?? | 9:08 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Question:

What can a Criminal get
whether he wants it or - not for free -
and has it all paid for by a Freemen,

that a Freeman can't even buy $$$
or pay for himself
from yet another Criminal?
.
.
.
.
.
.
Answer: HealthCare

Robert Oh | 9:16 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

We should make congress give up their health care until thay pass some kind of health care reform.

RedShirt | 9:30 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

To "Anonymous | 7:51 a.m." that is not a good option, and it is not the only option.

If 20% to 50% of the cost of health insurance is due directly to government mandates, getting rid of those will be single most cost effective thing to do.

Next, tort reform, wich would decrease the cost of defensive medicine. Defensive medicine adds about 9% to the cost of health care.

Next, get Medicare/Medicaid to act like an insurance company and pay the same as the private companies. Medicare/Medicaid payment rates make Doctors charge those with insurance more to cover their losses. This would save around $1000/year on insurance premiums.

So, just those three things would reduce a $14000/year policy by $5000 to $9000 per year. At that rate, it US health insurace would be cheaper than Europe for the average family.

peperlake | 9:33 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Fox news is the endless black hole. pull yourselves out conservatives!!!!!

Is Lost in DC | 9:46 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

the only one who did his homework?

Ultra Bob | 9:55 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Sherrie Amerson

Don’t worry, a large asteroid will crash into the earth on December 1, killing all life on the planet earth. Then a large black hole will swallow up our sun and all the planets and that will be the end.

I hope you realize that my predictions are just as valid as yours.

K2 | 9:57 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

"Abyss of sadness" and, "a black hole that will never end" is not the oxymoronic rhetoric we need to give serious thought to a difficult set of circumstances. My advice is to please ask your husband to not wake you up and share such gloom and doom that seems to ooze from your keyboard. And I thought Charles "Chuck" Grassley's influence didn't extend much beyond Iowa. This is America and it would bode you well to learn of its history in solving difficult challenges. Get on board!

Digbads | 10:19 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

We need more doctors and nurses. Supply & demand will certainly help reduce the costs, and offset the other effects of this bill. Bringing in all the illegals and giving them all free health coverage will only make things worse, so some of the emphasis needs to be on extra health workers.

To: Lost in DC | 10:29 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Thanks for supplying chapter and verse. Notice how Roland Kayser suddenly has nothing to say. I've noticed that about him... spouts his rants but disappears when faced with the truth.

SLC gal | 11:12 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Say hello to unfair taxation. Taxes levied for a product you do not have or use. Isn't there something about that in the constitution or bill or rights? Oh yes, that's right, that was all out the window when Osama took office.

As absurd as it sounds.... | 12:06 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

As absurd as the "goto jail clause" sounds in the Pelosi bill never-the-less it is true - it IS in the bill. You can goto jail for failure to have health insurance. This is nuts. Tax increases everywhere you turn with this bill. Tax increases for small business. Tax increases for individuals that Pelosi has already let the cat out of the bag about. But wait... Obama said NO NEW TAX INCREASES. But wait... the bill mandates new tax increases. Hmmm, another say one thing do another tactic that Obama has become famous for. Here's a question for ya- HOW MANY OF YOU TRUST BARACK HUSSIN OBAMA to keep his word? Dark days ahead indeed.

Ultra Bob | 12:08 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

To “lost in DC | 8:18 a.m.”

The very critical information that you left out of you analysis is the fact that the bill was not written by Obama, but by the people in the insurance industry who we are trying to reform.

This bill is a total waste. Our only hope is that it will die and a new proper effort at reform will be made.

If this thing passes.... | 12:13 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

If this thing becomes law....

1. Small business will be hit with HUGE tax increases and mandated insurance offerings to employees or face a fine. That ought to help stimulate the economy and get business's hiring again!!! Another Obama lie.
2. Seniors will lose Medicare Advantage which is the bread and butter for most seniors. $500 billion of cuts to this important program. Another Obama lie.
3. Insurance companies will be forced out of business - no way to compete with the government. Another Obama lie.
4. Millions will lose their health care coverage because their company plan will be dropped and they will then be forced on to the watered down , rationing , gov plan. Another Obama lie.

Lie after lie after lie after lie .......

One thing is for sure. Obama and Pelosi are joined at the hip on this one which REALLY scares me.

Himself | 12:33 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Lost in DC, I hope you are not a lawyer because your
arguments are bogus.

not on Fox | 1:11 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

If you check other "news sources" other than Fox, you might find out that only those making over $250,000 per year will be required to pay more to insure that those fellow Americans who have no health insurance and may never be able to afford such a luxury.

toAs absurd as it sounds..12:06 | 1:37 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Most laws have a clause about jail time for not complying.

The same goes for spitting gum on the sidewalk.
J-walking and letting your dog out without a leash.

...stop freaking out!

Good grief.

To: Roland | 2:53 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

You honestly didn't know that this bill may result in you going to jail if you don't buy health insurance?? Or is it that because Obama is for it, it must be good? I don't know if your silence is a sign that you are blown away, that the foundations of liberalism on which you stand are crumbling under your trembling knees, or if it is taking you this long to do the requisite back bends to come up with a defense for such blatant Marxism.

RedShirt | 3:08 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

To "not on Fox | 1:11 p.m." and who are those people who can never afford insurance. People making less than $40,000 year are eligible for Medicare/Medicaid/SCHIP programs. Those making more than that, depending on where they live most likely can afford some sort of insurance.

Please tell us who it is that can't get health insurance.

re: RedShirt | 3:54 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

More people laid off than in years. More to come.
Who knows WHEN the economy will allow hiring again. And when this happens (unemployment stats released), the Stock Market rises (higher earnings per share).
And this neocon fool is perplexed and doesn't know who can't get health insurance.

LOL!

Anonymous | 4:02 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

One in 10 people in America are unemployed. The figure is much, much more because the figure is taken from unemployment benefits which many have already exausted, so they are not even counted anymore.
But it should be a cakewalk for everyone to pull themselves up by their bootstraps (the conservative way) and get good health insurance for themselves and their families.

LOL!

Old One | 5:16 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I'd like to remind Sherrie Amerson that the House bill was the only one passed. It may take months before the House and Senate reconcile a bill, if ever, and who knows what it might look like. By the way, Ms. Amerson, since you seem to be so concerned about the bill, have you even read it?

the bitter truth | 6:01 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

People better come to grips that the American Dream is slipping away for so many not-that-well- connected people.
Many may NEVER return to good jobs again.
Fasten your seat belts.
Too many people.
Not enough good jobs.
No adequate health insurance.
Social unrest.
Handgun ratio 1:1
Connect the dots.

Unaffordable! | 10:57 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

So we are going to spend $1 trillion on free health care? Actually it will turn out to be three to ten times that, just like Medicare has turned out.

And half of the money is going to come from cutting $500 Billion from Medicare?

Only a fool, or socialist, or Democrat (but I repeat myself) would believe a scheme like that will work.

Socialism only works until they run out of other people's money to spend. That is exactly what this is, with 100 new government agencies to monitor, direct, and conflict with each other and get in the way of actual doctors and nurses.

This travesty must be stopped.

Good on Matheson for showing some common sense and voting against this, along with Bishop and Chaffetz.

@Unaffordable!!! | 11:36 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

You go guy. So true.

To "Unaffordable! | 10:57 p.m." | 1:30 p.m. Nov. 11, 2009

Unaffordable! | 10:57 p.m.

I tend to agree with you. Despite what the Democrats in Washington DC say, I have to use some common sense reasoning and things just don't add up (unless for every dollar currently spent in Medicare TWO dollars are being stollen or wasted).

Think about it. Currently what percentage of the population is over 65 and on Medicare? It can't be more than 1/3rd.

So Democrats are saying that there is enough waste and theft in the CURRENT system covering AT MOST 1/3rd of the population... that if we recuded that be even a small fraction... it would result in enough money to cover the other 2/3rds of the population???

How does that add up?

They will have to either charge huge premiums of everyone participating (and THAT is the exact reason many people don't have insurance today) OR reduce benefits to those already on Medicare drastically to be able to squeeze enough money out of that system to fund the exansion of this plan to more than TWICE the number of people it currently covers.

But if Democrats say it will be budget nutral... we just believe?

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