Deseret News | Behavior is a choice

Reader comments
Readers' forum: Behavior is a choice

WW | 12:32 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

It is sad that just because you can not see, feel or understand something that it doesn't exist. I choose to let others live their own lives hopefully we can all choose to let others be who they are.

Nobody Important | 6:08 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Amen, brother. Mr. Arrington's point is well-taken. Not all behaviors are equally beneficial to society.

What about religion? | 6:57 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Religion and its associated behaviors is also a choice, but one that is protected by Utah's hate crimes law. Why then do they get special privileges?

Comments continue below

Behavior | 7:02 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

And you forgot to add, let's make sure it is the behavior you approve of. Being Christian is also a behavior and a choice, it doesn't mean you have any special rights.

Kevin | 7:02 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

While deciding to have or not have sex is a choice, the attraction to one gender or another is not. Since I completely view religion as moral fraud, I'm not going to abstain from sex because of it.

guest | 7:12 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Curtis Arrington, you are so right.

Really? | 7:13 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Sexual behavior is a choice?

So when did you "chose" to be straight?

I distinctly remember a day when I was nine years old and watching a re-run of "Flash Gordon" on TV. While watching all the space-opera action I was struck by the the thought - "Wow, Dale Arden is more fun to look at than Flash Gordon."

When I shared this memory with a gay colleague, he laughed and said, "Yeah, that's about the age that I thought that Flash Gordon was more fun to look at than Dale Arden!"

Was my 9 year-old friend "choosing" to be gay?

Baloney!

Agki | 7:40 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Some aspects of behavior are true choices but others are not. For those that are choices, there are problems in deciding what to do. One of the most important instruments in such decision making is the development of the ability to make decisions. You cannot take a gang member 17 year old into a room and give him/her a lecture on "moral values" and expect him/her to walk out of the room a person fully charged with the "moral values" of a saint, can you?

Great! | 7:44 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

"Americans have long distinguished between behaviors that build and those that do not. Let's keep our conversation focused on behaviors, not rights. Maintaining a strong America calls for the highest behavior from each of us."

Let's go with that - why don't we start by you telling us how sexual orientation is a behavior that does not build and what harms it creates in society. Remember to focus only on the behavior and to base your response in facts.

Anonymous | 7:48 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Other than moralizing, what is the point of this letter?

Geezer | 7:48 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

The psychiatric profession long ago concluded that sexual orientation is not a choice. It's a shame that some readers still believe it is, because we all have much to gain by accepting our neighbors, our colleagues and our family members regardless of their orientation. They are not a threat to you or me.

Quagmire | 7:53 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I guess bigotry and ignorance would be two of those behaviors that don't build a stronger country.

What? | 8:00 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

What in the world is this guy talking about, and why is the DesNews printing it?

Exactly.... | 8:02 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Just like obeying the speed limits, and road rage.
I fear for my family and others in society more for that because people die on the freeways.

RedShirt | 8:18 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

To "Really? | 7:13 a.m." you missed the point. It has nothing to do with gay or straight.

The point the letter was making was that a person can choose to have sex or not.

Just because a person is gay does not mean that they have to have sex. Same with a straight person.

@Kevin | 8:37 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Some people are attracted to door knobs.

SLC gal | 8:48 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Re: Really? - Liking men or women may not be a choice but getting drunk and freaky with who knows how many partners and unprotected always is!

Ultra Bob | 8:51 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

If we believe in the goodness of the American Constitution, we believe that all men (and women) should have the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Given that premise, all adult Americans have the right to behave in any way they choose so long as their behavior does not impinge on the rights of others.

The means that even bad behavior is a human right. So long as a person keeps it in his own sphere of influence.

Unfortunately we cannot count on the “highest behavior from each of us”, so we must have guides, plans and regulations to control us. The Constitution is such a thing.

We must not let ourselves be distracted from vigilance to recognize bad behavior that goes beyond the limit by people saying that all we need to do is “do good”.

Robert Oh | 9:12 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Though actually having sex may be a choice, you don't have the right to make that choice for me.

Seems like there was some big deal made about that in the biginning by two brothers and a father. What happened? Oh yeah, those who advocated taking away choice were cast out.

That might be an importatnt concept for you to learn.

uncannygunman | 9:15 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I'm curious as to whether the author would characterize a person's "choice" to marry or procreate outside their race as a "behavior" that can be legitimately regulated?

@redshirt | 9:23 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

so then you are saying you are fine with gay couples adopting children and getting married as long as they do not have sex? come on it is pretty clear what the letter writer intended and that you are trying to slpit hairs that do not exist.

Not a choice. | 9:25 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Calling gayness a behavioural choice is the way people can excuse their prejudices. Calling it a choice makes it something that can be controlled by will power, therefore, discriminating against them is done in the name of preserving the morals of society.
If you do not accept their choice of behaviour, the gays certainly will come around to their senses, right?

Fortunately, Curtis, there are many people in this world who are more tolerant than you, and who are so tolerant, they even accept you.

Behaviorist | 9:37 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Curtis, breathing is a behavior too. Let's see you hold your breath until you turn blue.

@SLC Gal | 10:01 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

In one sentence you hit the nail on the head about what is wrong with your thinking. You are stereotyping a group of people because of what a few individuals do. As with any culture or group of people, there are bad seeds or people that give the whole group a bad name, but in no way represent the whole group.

I have been with my partner for 5 years. I have never hooked up with anyone. I have never had a single drop of alcohol, and I don't get "freaky".

You think that the only reason people are gay is to have sex with everyone? You are sadly mistaken. If you just look at the individual, instead of what they do in the bedroom, and they are no different than you.

Re; not a choice | 10:11 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

You are right - "gayness" (as you call it) is not a choice. But committing gay acts IS a choice.

Think of it this way: I am hetero. It's not a choice - it's just how I'm wired. I'm a man who is attracted to women. But I don't have to be sexually active with one (or more) of them. That's where the choice comes in. I can't just go around having sex with women and claiming I didn't have a choice, that it's just the way I'm wired.

But that's the same argument the gay community makes. You may be attracted to people of your same gender. But to say you don't have a choice on whether or not you should act out that attraction is incorrect. We all have self-control when it comes to our acts.

So you may not have a choice on who you are attracted to, but you DO have a choice when it comes to acting on those feelings.

Koker | 10:57 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Great letter, Curtis. Thanks for your honesty.

Anonymous | 12:14 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I'm too busy looking out for myself and my family to worry about telling others what to do.

I thought that was why were are here.

Isn't it ironic the very same people advocate doing everything for themselves right down to letting the poor and sick suffer,
are the same ones complaining the loudest about what others shouldn't do for themselves.

hypocrites

Anonymous | 12:25 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

In order to understand, trying switching it around and think of it like this:

If you are hetro-male --

Imagine living your life being forced to have sex with another male, while wishing all the while it was with a beautiful female.

Like in prison.
Now do you get it?

@10:11 a.m. | 12:38 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

so why should the gay community have to show any more control then the hetro community? I really do not understand the point of the letter or your point. Again if it is just abuot sex then why object to adoption and marraige?

To Curtis... | 1:26 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Amen, my friend.

@WW | 1:33 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I think I understand it quite clearly. Homosexuality is an abomination, period. This is Gods view on the matter and I stand with Him.

Why are people so | 1:44 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

involved with others' sex life?

People say "They can control their behaviour".

Right, they can't have sex until they get your consent, is that it?

Gee, thanks Dad, I think they can handle the intricacies of human interaction without your interference.

What two people do in | 1:46 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

their own homes is pretty much the business of those two people, as I see it.

I'm not too concerned with the "behaviour" (read: sex life) of other people, whether they be gay or not.

Live and let live.

@Red Shirt | 3:24 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

"Just because a person is gay does not mean that they have to have sex. Same with a straight person."

So what? What does it matter to you what goes on in your neighbor's bedroom? Why does anyone care about it? Gay or straight?

@SLC Gal | 3:29 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

" and I don't get "freaky"."

Are you sure? Some people might consider what you do to be "freaky" no matter what you do.

@10:11 | 3:33 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

My question is why do gay people have to conform to your views of morality. I do not believe it is bad to have sex with my partner. I would be married to my partner if given the opportunity.

I do agree that some people act in a way that is irresponsible, but that doesn't mean I need to write into legislation that they cannot do so.

If people would not assume that the only thing gay people do and the only reason they consider themselves gay is so they can have sex with whoever they want, or even better see the person for themselves, not who they sleep with, then most would have no problem with allowing homosexuals right to marry.

If you don't like the idea of homosexual sex, don't do it. But I am more than who I have sex with. See me for that.

Re: Why are people so | 3:39 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I'm not involved in others' sex life. If gay people want to have gay sex, that is their business. I couldn't care less.

What we're talking about is gay MARRIAGE. Marriage extends beyond the bedroom. Marriage affects every aspect of our society.

If gays want to keep it in the bedroom, go for it. You already have that right. But beyond that, you're going to meet resistance.

@10:11 | 3:33 p.m. Nov. 10, 200 | 4:17 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Not my view..... It's Gods.

Anonymous | 5:09 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

"Let's keep our conversation focused on behaviors, not rights."

What an anti-American statement!

Our conversation should only be about rights. That's what the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is about, not legislating behavior.

I'm glad we have | 5:23 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

people to interpret exactly what God meant in every passage in the Bible. Whew, you guys are really really smart to know the mind of God.
Please all of Leviticus to me, I'm so confused.

To the hypocrite @ 4:17 p.m. | 7:05 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

"Not my view..... It's Gods (sic)."

You somehow are able to live without adhering to God's other no-compromise rules regarding a great many other things.

Do you kill people for working on the Sabbath?

Do you kill women who are not virgins when they marry?

Do you kill disrespectful children?

Do you kill people who believe in a different God than yours?

"God's laws" say you absolutely must.

So who says you get to pick and choose which of God's laws to obey and which to ignore?

We should thank heaven (pun intended) that religious folks _don't_ obey a great many of God's laws. We'd live in a chaos of misery and mindless violence if we tried.

L. Bert Arian | 11:55 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

This world would be a better place if Conservatives would stop trying to regulate the bedroom & liberals the boardroom.

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