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Utah women lag behind nation in higher education
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Patriot | 6:57 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
Just wanted to say I agree with Joe Moe. Seederberg is Anti-Mormon and is
wasting our tax dollars on this type of a study.
You can thank our former RHINO governor Huntsman for appointing guys like Seederburg who come from outside the local culture and get their kicks off of stiring up the pot with usleless studies such os this. Give it a few more years and women will be in the majority in Utah also.
Like Joe Moe said the REAL story here is why men are failing to go to college.
You can thank our former RHINO governor Huntsman for appointing guys like Seederburg who come from outside the local culture and get their kicks off of stiring up the pot with usleless studies such os this. Give it a few more years and women will be in the majority in Utah also.
Like Joe Moe said the REAL story here is why men are failing to go to college.
Vegor | 11:53 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
I worked with and around Bill Sederburg for 5 years while he was at
UVSC/UVU...never once heard him say anything remotely Anit-Mormon...on the
contrary, he would more often than not bend over backwards to appease the local
religious majority. Blanket mistrust of "outsiders" just makes Utah
seem backwards and ignorant.
As someone who works in higher education I always want more information about the student population I serve. It isn't just about the women who aren't going to school...a study like this will help shed some light on the issues that women deal with while attending. As a man I could benefit from some more perspective, and Susan Madsen is a respected scholar.
As someone who works in higher education I always want more information about the student population I serve. It isn't just about the women who aren't going to school...a study like this will help shed some light on the issues that women deal with while attending. As a man I could benefit from some more perspective, and Susan Madsen is a respected scholar.
Comments continue below
Greg | 1:39 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
There might be a few more woman here in Utah. More so than the national average
that are interested in starting a family instead of a education at this point in
their life.. I am not concerned at all..
Choices. | 4:47 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
It's all about choices and priorities people place on their lives. We ask
people to put more efforts in to families and caring for them then turn around
and tell them that is the wrong thing to do, that a so called degree is more
important.
Not even the student with the most degrees coming out of Utah schools are really getting an education. This is very evident in many of the so called professional careers that have shocked me with the amount of knowledge they don't have. Even basic skills elude them, like being able to read, write, and do simple math.
How they get these degrees and diplomas is a real mystery, it must have something to do with getting tax money by the numbers from Utah tax payers. The more students enrolled, whether they get educated or not, means more tax dollars for the school.
Higher education is overwhelmed with students that don't belong there because they are incapable of learning and applying what higher eduction can offer. At one time you had to qualify to get in to college and a degree had meaning, now all it takes is education welfare.
Not even the student with the most degrees coming out of Utah schools are really getting an education. This is very evident in many of the so called professional careers that have shocked me with the amount of knowledge they don't have. Even basic skills elude them, like being able to read, write, and do simple math.
How they get these degrees and diplomas is a real mystery, it must have something to do with getting tax money by the numbers from Utah tax payers. The more students enrolled, whether they get educated or not, means more tax dollars for the school.
Higher education is overwhelmed with students that don't belong there because they are incapable of learning and applying what higher eduction can offer. At one time you had to qualify to get in to college and a degree had meaning, now all it takes is education welfare.
Waste of time | 5:46 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
The modern university has morphed into vocational training, much of which can be
accomplished more efficiently online. I believe it was Peter Drucker who said
that a college education was a 4 year postponement of entry into the real
world.
Priorities | 5:57 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
We all know that women are supposed to be raising the kids and not out in the
workforce. There place is in the home as home makers and mothers. That is why
many women delay getting a degree and often don't bother to once they start
a family. They are too busy getting married as soon as they are out of High
school and can find a man to take care of them. Then within a year they are
pregnant.
Women don't seem to want much more than to be pregnant and married. Why would they need to go to college unless they can't find a man? Let's be honest. If they still encouraged them to marry at sixteen, we'd be having a high drop out rate in High School.
If we want to improve numbers, women need to be taught young to put off marriage until they are at least twenty. They also need to be taught about birth control and family planning. Without those three things, women will continue to be second class citizens.
Women don't seem to want much more than to be pregnant and married. Why would they need to go to college unless they can't find a man? Let's be honest. If they still encouraged them to marry at sixteen, we'd be having a high drop out rate in High School.
If we want to improve numbers, women need to be taught young to put off marriage until they are at least twenty. They also need to be taught about birth control and family planning. Without those three things, women will continue to be second class citizens.
To Vegor | 5:58 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Its blah blah blah. Always the same platitudes from the lefties. Joe Moe is
absolutely right. Your attitude makes his point. If it's not about
promoting only the politically correct gender, you have no interest.
Jenny | 6:18 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Let's face it women in Utah are expected to work and put their partner
through school and by then a family is on the way and her job is in the home.
Don't want to educated women as its a threat to the man and family
Pat | 6:31 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Right now many underemployed and even unemployed men are going back to school to
help them get a good paying job. This really ups the men's count.
Utah actually better off here | 6:43 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
According to Joe Moe (first post), Utah is closer to parity than the nation.
I have read in other articles that more Utah's attend university than the nation as a whole.
So Utah is actually better off no matter how one looks at it. This article had to spin hard to make it appear differently.
I have read in other articles that more Utah's attend university than the nation as a whole.
So Utah is actually better off no matter how one looks at it. This article had to spin hard to make it appear differently.
Trade schools valuable too | 6:49 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Why is only university considered here? What about post secondary education of
all types? Is trade school not valuable?
University education is a big plus, I have a 4 year degree myself in electrical engineering, (yes I am male).
However the world needs people with a wide variety of skills. Plumbers, electricitians, mechanics etc are also needed in our society.
Lets not just focus on university education. People shouldn't feel pressured to attend any particular type of institution. The education one chooses does and should depend on ones interests.
University education is a big plus, I have a 4 year degree myself in electrical engineering, (yes I am male).
However the world needs people with a wide variety of skills. Plumbers, electricitians, mechanics etc are also needed in our society.
Lets not just focus on university education. People shouldn't feel pressured to attend any particular type of institution. The education one chooses does and should depend on ones interests.
Tami | 6:49 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
We live in a culture that values women as wives and mothers ideally more than
workers, so there is not the push for a degree for them to the same extent as
there would be if they were to be expected to provide for their families. I have
daughters who I will support in college, but I definitely encourage marriage and
family over career, so I will not mind at all if they don't finish and I
make no apologies for that.
This doesn't need to waste money for a study for.
This doesn't need to waste money for a study for.
Disappointed | 7:08 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
"... seeing divorce rates rise just as highly as in other states, which
leaves more uneducated single moms."
I graduated from college - twice. Even so, I don't consider those without a college degree to be "uneducated."
Please be careful with your word choice.
I graduated from college - twice. Even so, I don't consider those without a college degree to be "uneducated."
Please be careful with your word choice.
Really? | 7:10 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
"Susan Madsen, a Utah Valley University business professor, has launched a
yearlong study to determine why women in the Beehive State seem less interested
in higher education than their national peers."
Note to Prof. Madsen: When you live in a state dominated by one religion, and when leaders from said religion tell their women that the highest and most noble role of women is to stay home and sqeeze out babies, then you have to ask yourself: "Why go to school." Undoubtedly, I'm going to get a number of responses on this thread quoting from church leaders telling LDS women to get an education. But when you look at the culture from which these women emerge it is starkly anti-education: stay home, raise kids, and only get an education if it's convenient. That's the message LDS leaders send, and that's why we have a great imbalance between men and women in Utah universities.
Note to Prof. Madsen: When you live in a state dominated by one religion, and when leaders from said religion tell their women that the highest and most noble role of women is to stay home and sqeeze out babies, then you have to ask yourself: "Why go to school." Undoubtedly, I'm going to get a number of responses on this thread quoting from church leaders telling LDS women to get an education. But when you look at the culture from which these women emerge it is starkly anti-education: stay home, raise kids, and only get an education if it's convenient. That's the message LDS leaders send, and that's why we have a great imbalance between men and women in Utah universities.
Fey.May | 7:15 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
This study sounds like a waste of time. Sederburg already stated he believes the
female student population might suffer "because of a local cultural factor
of women tending to marry and start families at younger ages in Utah,
contributing to fewer female students in colleges and universities," and
those of us who grew up in this area know the cultural/social pressure of
avoiding "old maid-ism" by getting married as soon as we are able to
after high school. BYU won't release their numbers because they probably
have an embarrassingly high rate of women drop out to get married after their
freshman year. The "joke" that women attend BYU to find a husband is
based on fact.
my perspective | 7:29 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
For me and many of my friends, we were more interested in starting a family than
higher education. (I do have my BS) In a culture where family comes first, is
it really all that surprising?
I agree with Joe, why are there fewer men getting higher degrees?
I agree with Joe, why are there fewer men getting higher degrees?
agree with Joe Moe | 7:37 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Joe Moe, you are right. a costly study searching to find answers to questions
that are not the right questions is a waste of money, time, effort
I think... | 7:48 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
it's interesting another UVU person benefits from USHE. Since Sederburg
was appointed, he has hired someone from UVU to look at the CEU/USU possible
merger and now he commissions a study to a business professor at UVU. Why a
business professor? I'm sure she is a talented professor at a teaching
university, but why not commission this to a research professor in an education
department who actually does research on-going? Did he bid out this study to
Utah and Utah State where they are conducting research?
I also think many are correct that we are close to the national average. The bigger question in Utah is with how many women obtain their degree/s and then choose to stay home. This is where we distance ourselves from the national average.
Another idea would be of the women who have degree/s, how many become involved in volunteer efforts or with their child's schools? For example, a someone with an accounting degree could help with the PTA finances, etc. This would be an interesting study.
I also think many are correct that we are close to the national average. The bigger question in Utah is with how many women obtain their degree/s and then choose to stay home. This is where we distance ourselves from the national average.
Another idea would be of the women who have degree/s, how many become involved in volunteer efforts or with their child's schools? For example, a someone with an accounting degree could help with the PTA finances, etc. This would be an interesting study.
Women do need Education | 8:18 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Many people commenting on this post seem to think that marriage and families
should come before education. This is fine, until your daughters are widowed or
divorced, leaving them to be the primary financial provider of the family. And
let's not forget that there are many men out there who are just plain lazy
and can't/won't hold down a job - again leaving the woman as the
primary financial provider. Why would you want to short change your daughters?
The risk of these things happening is not small, especially divorce. I am LDS
and strongly believe that all women should be educated or develop a skill to the
point that they would be perfectly able to support themselves or their family
should anything happen. Women should also be financially savvy. There is no
excuse in this modern day for women to have no understanding of how to manage
household finances.
Anonymous | 8:27 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Mothers are important, an *educated* mother more so...
Housewives | 8:27 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Somebody has to stay home and take care of those large Utah families.
Doesn't the Mormon Church place more emphasis on multiplying and
replenishing the earth rather than enrolling in college and educating yourself?
Chris | 8:34 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Maybe if these women in Utah quit popping babies out every year then maybe they
will have the time and money to further their schooling.
It is sad to see some of these women in utah that are barely over 25 or so and already dragging 4 screaming kids through walmart while she is pregnant with another. I mean come on if you didnt have all those kids you would have the time and money to go to college and make something of yourself besides living off your husband who has to over work himself to support you and the kids because you just want to stay home, pop kids out and play the good little mom role and spend money that your husband earns.
I mean it wont kill you women to take some birth control then wait till after you have finished all your schooling to start popping kids out like a baby factory with no shut off switch.
It is sad to see some of these women in utah that are barely over 25 or so and already dragging 4 screaming kids through walmart while she is pregnant with another. I mean come on if you didnt have all those kids you would have the time and money to go to college and make something of yourself besides living off your husband who has to over work himself to support you and the kids because you just want to stay home, pop kids out and play the good little mom role and spend money that your husband earns.
I mean it wont kill you women to take some birth control then wait till after you have finished all your schooling to start popping kids out like a baby factory with no shut off switch.
They may lag... | 8:37 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
...in higher education but they are probably at or near the top for pre-twenty
marrying and having babies. And that's what's really important.
No Joe Moe | 8:39 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Do we really care why fewer men are getting higher education? If they still make
markedly more than women in every field, if they still dominate professional
schools and trades then who cares?
Brenden | 8:39 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
I have daughters, too, and encourage marriage & family over career, but not
education. It is very important to my wife and I that all our children get a
complete formal education, and form habits of learning throughout their life.
For all it emphasizes family, those who think the LDS faith does not encourage
women to be educated do not understand it, and have not been listening to what
has been taught. Church leaders have from the very beginning encouraged this,
and the Relief Society was founded in part to promote and provide it. Brigham
Young even said that given the choice between educating his daughters or his
sons he would choose his daughters. In our own family my wife and I both have
advanced degrees, though we did not put our family on hold while we undertook
them. It was tough at times, but we both worked to support each other. As a
bishop, I constantly counseled couples to both finish their degree, and for
those wives & mothers who had dropped out to get back in; we did all we
could to support them in that. Family and education are not easy, but they are
not mutually exclusive.
Candice | 8:43 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
I'm a mother who had a bachelors degree when I got married. Now that my
oldest is in Kindergarten I am choosing to get a masters degree in education.
I'm going back for a number of reasons, but the biggest struggle is finding
a consistent babysitter for my three year old. I feel like this article hit the
nail on the head when they said they could probably doing more in the way of
child care on campus. I found that I would have to enroll my child in daycare
full time in order to drop her off for the one hour a day that I'm actually
in class. Come on, if you offer your students to plan their school schedules
you should let them plan child care schedules as well and not saddle them with a
full time daycare price tag.
whatever | 8:50 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Not surprising. Most LDS women are more selfless than the average women putting
their family first. Of course nothing wrong with getting an education either.
My wife had her BS before we where married. Now she is a stay at home mom and I
have more respect for her than if she was a CEO.
RE: To Vegor | 8:54 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
If wanting a greater understanding of the students I deal with on a daily basis
is considered leftist I suppose I deeply misunderstand the political
spectrum.
A deep study like this will hopefully reveal a lot about all students in higher education. I have noticed that some of my students do demonstrably better once they get married, perhaps because they spend less time looking for Mr. Right.
I think the dominant culture does have something to do with the lack of female students, but I doubt it is the only reason.
How is this desire to know more seen as "leftist platitudes"?
A deep study like this will hopefully reveal a lot about all students in higher education. I have noticed that some of my students do demonstrably better once they get married, perhaps because they spend less time looking for Mr. Right.
I think the dominant culture does have something to do with the lack of female students, but I doubt it is the only reason.
How is this desire to know more seen as "leftist platitudes"?
OH MY WORD | 8:56 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
I cannot believe what I'm reading in these comments!!! Who took over, the
neo-conservative "women are only of worth if they have babies" group
of chauvanistic men, and the women who worship them?
Certainly the "culture" in Utah affects how many women get degrees, but I am here to testify that I have seen woman after woman CHOOSE to not get a degree,whether married or not, because they're afraid men will look at them in just the judgemental way you all have communicated. In fact, I (as someone working toward a PhD) have basically been treated like I CHOSE to stay single (which is a complete and utter lie) just because I actually had ambition! As a MARRIED friend of mine said recently "What is it in UT? Does being a woman give you a "get out of ambition free" card?"
Research for YEARS has shown that better educated woman produce MORE successful children and families. You want PEACE, educate a woman. You want successful marriages and families, educate a woman. Let alone the economic REALITY that MOST families can no longer be 1 breadwinner families!!! Pull your heads out of the "culture" Utah!!!!
Certainly the "culture" in Utah affects how many women get degrees, but I am here to testify that I have seen woman after woman CHOOSE to not get a degree,whether married or not, because they're afraid men will look at them in just the judgemental way you all have communicated. In fact, I (as someone working toward a PhD) have basically been treated like I CHOSE to stay single (which is a complete and utter lie) just because I actually had ambition! As a MARRIED friend of mine said recently "What is it in UT? Does being a woman give you a "get out of ambition free" card?"
Research for YEARS has shown that better educated woman produce MORE successful children and families. You want PEACE, educate a woman. You want successful marriages and families, educate a woman. Let alone the economic REALITY that MOST families can no longer be 1 breadwinner families!!! Pull your heads out of the "culture" Utah!!!!
Re: I think... | 9:21 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Dr. Madsen has a doctoral degree in Human Resource Management and has done
extensive research both while she has been at UVU and in her prior work at other
universities, so that's probably why they picked her. She is on the
advisory board for the Center for Engaged Learning at UVU as well. She's on
sabbatical this year, researching several projects and traveling the world
presenting at conferences on many continents. She's quite well-regarded in
the research field, and I suspect that they were looking for a woman with
experience in this kind of research. She has published papers about women
university presidents, work-life balance, and very recently, women students in
the United Arab Emerits, so I imagine she's well-suited to the task.
I'm one of her former (female) students, and I look forward to what she
finds in this study.
Liz | 9:31 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
I agree with Chris....take some BC pills and get your education....and
don't have so many children! The world is over populated already....
Anonymous | 9:47 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
"Most LDS women are more selfless than the average women"
What a self-righteous statement... and LDS members wonder why they get such a bad rap for being arrogant...
What a self-righteous statement... and LDS members wonder why they get such a bad rap for being arrogant...
A.B. | 9:48 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Hey Chris, it takes two you know. A woman with tons of kids and no birth
control very well could be under her husband's thumb. Especially a husband
who doesn't feel the need to take care of his children anyway, it being a
"woman's job."
I agree with whatever. LDS women are taught to be selfless. Sometimes to a fault. They end up unsatisfied and uneducated for the greater good, but in fact this hurts children in the long run. Their mothers NEED to be educated. We need mothers who are happy to be stay at home moms. My mom never was. She sacrificed EVERYTHING for her husband and for her kids. And it was never fulfilling for her. Not that she complained, but we all knew she wanted to have a degree and travel and do some good outside the home. But she CHOSE to stay home. Now, with all her kids out of the house she has a degree and is doing things she's always wanted to do. But now she's lonely because she's got no kids depending on her... It's more complicated to be a woman than men think.
I agree with whatever. LDS women are taught to be selfless. Sometimes to a fault. They end up unsatisfied and uneducated for the greater good, but in fact this hurts children in the long run. Their mothers NEED to be educated. We need mothers who are happy to be stay at home moms. My mom never was. She sacrificed EVERYTHING for her husband and for her kids. And it was never fulfilling for her. Not that she complained, but we all knew she wanted to have a degree and travel and do some good outside the home. But she CHOSE to stay home. Now, with all her kids out of the house she has a degree and is doing things she's always wanted to do. But now she's lonely because she's got no kids depending on her... It's more complicated to be a woman than men think.
@Chris | 9:56 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Do you have any idea how offensive your comment was? Most LDS women aren't
getting married at twenty - average age is more like 24. And the ones who have
large families have them because they want them - not because it's some
mandate. I wanted it myself, well, I've had three times as many
miscarriages as I've had children, then was unable to continue trying.
As for the education thing, I'm one who went part time while working full time for several years. Never borrowed a dime for it, but didn't finish either. Now I wish I had. Not because I'm divorced or widowed or my husband is lazy, but because we have gone through periods of unemployment due to stupid mismanagement at his companies, resulting in needing to lay people off. And in Utah, without a degree you can't get any kind of job worth having unless the economy is hot. I don't regret a bit staying home with our children - two have special needs and it was far better for them, but with no degree and no current experience, I can't make decent money.
As for the education thing, I'm one who went part time while working full time for several years. Never borrowed a dime for it, but didn't finish either. Now I wish I had. Not because I'm divorced or widowed or my husband is lazy, but because we have gone through periods of unemployment due to stupid mismanagement at his companies, resulting in needing to lay people off. And in Utah, without a degree you can't get any kind of job worth having unless the economy is hot. I don't regret a bit staying home with our children - two have special needs and it was far better for them, but with no degree and no current experience, I can't make decent money.
Krabu | 10:08 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Quoting Joe Moe:
"So we have parity here in Utah (49% is as close as you'll ever get). Why are we worried about this?
"The real study should be why only 43% of college attenders nation-wide are men."
******
The article doesn't indicate the percentages of Utahns currently attending college as compared to the national average, but, with the number of graduates in Utah being close to the national average, I would venture a guess that that number too is likely close to the national average. That would mean that Utah is bucking the national trend, which has seen the percentage of men attending college to be dropping precipitously in recent years. Lifting the number of men in college in Utah, reaching something close to parity, would appear to be, for the most part, a heartening trend.
"So we have parity here in Utah (49% is as close as you'll ever get). Why are we worried about this?
"The real study should be why only 43% of college attenders nation-wide are men."
******
The article doesn't indicate the percentages of Utahns currently attending college as compared to the national average, but, with the number of graduates in Utah being close to the national average, I would venture a guess that that number too is likely close to the national average. That would mean that Utah is bucking the national trend, which has seen the percentage of men attending college to be dropping precipitously in recent years. Lifting the number of men in college in Utah, reaching something close to parity, would appear to be, for the most part, a heartening trend.
College is not for everybody | 10:12 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Despite what the Universities would have you believe, going to college is not
for everybody. I am college educated and am currently working on my masters
degree and I have never had an issue finding a job. You know why? Not because of
my diploma (although it doesn't hurt) but because I have SKILLS. I know how
to do things that are in demand.
I have two brothers-in law, both college educated with business degrees from BYU, and they cannot for the life of them find a job? But they have a college education don't they? Sure they do, but they don't have any skills. They are pretty smart and sharp but they have nothing of value to offer to a company. They didn't work at all during their four years of college (I worked all throughout my college, exercising my skills) They would both be far better off if they never went to college and spent that time learning a trade and working up experience.
College proves nothing more than you know how to jump through the hoops.
I have two brothers-in law, both college educated with business degrees from BYU, and they cannot for the life of them find a job? But they have a college education don't they? Sure they do, but they don't have any skills. They are pretty smart and sharp but they have nothing of value to offer to a company. They didn't work at all during their four years of college (I worked all throughout my college, exercising my skills) They would both be far better off if they never went to college and spent that time learning a trade and working up experience.
College proves nothing more than you know how to jump through the hoops.
Husband | 10:24 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
My wife quit full-time employment for 10 years to raise our children. This was
our priority. She returned for a master's degree when they were older. We
taught our children both education and marriage/family are very important. My
wife returned for a 2nd master's and continues to excel in her career. I
am really proud of her decisions which blessed our family. She found a formula
that worked for us as she was both a stay-at-home Mom to raise our children then
pursued her career. I think the reported study could be valuable and hope
Deseret News reports on it later.
Why educate them? | 10:36 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
I don't see the point of educating women; their role is to stay at home,
cook, clean, and have babies. Why would you want to educate them? Education
leads to reasoning--reasoning leads to doubt--doubt leads to.... (Mormon Sunday
school lesson-I'm a Sunday School teacher in my ward)
I've heard this attack on Bill Sederburg to the point of making me sick. I hate to generalize but the people of Utah county have to be the most narrow minded group of people in the USA. Sorry but not being a Mormon cheerleader does not make Sederburg an ANTI-Mormon. The man has a lot to offer and if you'd dry your eyes and listen to him you might actually improve your thinking.
I've heard this attack on Bill Sederburg to the point of making me sick. I hate to generalize but the people of Utah county have to be the most narrow minded group of people in the USA. Sorry but not being a Mormon cheerleader does not make Sederburg an ANTI-Mormon. The man has a lot to offer and if you'd dry your eyes and listen to him you might actually improve your thinking.
They are missing | 11:02 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
that they should consider what percentage of people in the US or Utah are male
versus female. If there are more males in Utah, then we can expect that more of
them would attend college or vice versa. In Utah, 50.2% of the population is
male while 49.8% are female...so we're only talking about a differential of
less than one percent. That's enough to be easily covered by any margin of
error in the study. I'd say that's doing pretty well. Slow news day.
AZ | 11:03 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
LOWER the Cost and more people will go to school. It is really simple....it
seems like these days on the rich or the poor go to school.
Erica | 11:16 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
"A man is not a financial plan." As a higher education administrator,
I see women struggle to return to college after their husbands die or divorce
them. Often these women dropped out when they had almost earned a degree, but
now given the lapse in time, they must essentially start over (after decades at
home).
The sad truth is that anything can happen. Our husbands may not always be there to care for us.
I'm not sure about the merits of spending this kind of money on a study that is going to most likely confirm what all of us already know, but hopefully it will bring some additional light to problems concerning child care/resources for mothers who are working or going to school. Due to the "mothers should stay home" mindset, these areas are lacking in our state.
The sad truth is that anything can happen. Our husbands may not always be there to care for us.
I'm not sure about the merits of spending this kind of money on a study that is going to most likely confirm what all of us already know, but hopefully it will bring some additional light to problems concerning child care/resources for mothers who are working or going to school. Due to the "mothers should stay home" mindset, these areas are lacking in our state.
ACC | 11:21 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Solid research can produce useful answers. It could well be valuable to learn
what the reasons are. Importantly, it will be individuals and couples who
determine how to address those rather personal issues in their lives. My spouse
and have both have graduate level educations. In addition, she has studied
privately. Education has enriched our marriage as have the five children who
have blessed our home.
shocked from AZ | 12:17 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Totally aside from the topic at hand, I am disgusted at the rudeness, the
ignorant judgemental attitude of many in these blogs.
Attacking women for making choices they want to make.
Making uniformed judgements regarding the LDS church and it's priorities.
Criticizing many good people because they've chosen
family over a certain form of education?
Shame on you all who come on here daily and criticize and attack just because it makes you feel good/smart/better/etc/etc.
Attacking women for making choices they want to make.
Making uniformed judgements regarding the LDS church and it's priorities.
Criticizing many good people because they've chosen
family over a certain form of education?
Shame on you all who come on here daily and criticize and attack just because it makes you feel good/smart/better/etc/etc.
Also..from AZ | 12:36 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Many who criticize here are judging/assuming that when they see a woman with 3,4
or 5 kids, they must not have a college degree.
Or if they appear to be poor, they must not have a degree.
Anyone care to guess how many college grads are out of work right now?
Just be careful how you look at people.
And just because someone has 3 or 4 kids, you can't even assume she's LDS, which really takes some of the fun out of your ignorant insults and generalizing.
Or if they appear to be poor, they must not have a degree.
Anyone care to guess how many college grads are out of work right now?
Just be careful how you look at people.
And just because someone has 3 or 4 kids, you can't even assume she's LDS, which really takes some of the fun out of your ignorant insults and generalizing.
From PA | 12:38 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
I am currently working on a Bachelor's Degree from Penn State University
that I jokingly refer to as "a degree in Relief Society." Everything
being taught in my degree program can be learned hands-on through church
service. I decided to complete my education because I love to learn and I want
to be able to use all that I learn to enhance my life, my family, my service in
the church, and to be able to support my family should the need ever arise. I
have a large family and sometimes my responsibilities have been overwhelming and
I have wanted to quit, but since my husband stands behind me, supports me and
sustains me I will soon graduate. This is not a Mormon versus the world issue.
It is not a stay-at-home versus working issue. Nearly half of the graduating
class at a local highschool here in PA do not intend to go to college. When
opportunities are available and we do not seize them, then are we not
unprofitable servants? Instead of criticizing someone with a different life
philosophy, let us inspire them.
anonymous | 1:33 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
I am a Utah woman who has a Master's plus 30 hours. Why? Because my
grandmother told me when I was a preschooler that all her grand-daughters would
go to college and get a degree. We all did.
p.s.
My grandmother thought that I was not very bright.
p.s.
My grandmother thought that I was not very bright.
I agree with Brenden @ 8:39 | 1:33 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Education is important. Education and family are NOT mutually exclusive - with
hard work you can do both.
The article mentions that the data needs further study. I agree the raw data probably does not tell the whole story.
The article mentions that the data needs further study. I agree the raw data probably does not tell the whole story.
Anonymous | 1:39 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
I will also add that I agree with the above statement that many college grads
are out of work. It is very easy to have a Phd and to be fired. Everyone talks
about unemployment, no one talks about being fired.
When you go in the job-force, there are so many policies that you can't even measure up to them all. So, if someone wants to fire you for any personal reason, they will come up with some policy that you broke.
I think getting an education is extremely easy (and you don't have to go to college to be educated), maintaining good relationships with co-workers is all about politics, in my opinion.
When you go in the job-force, there are so many policies that you can't even measure up to them all. So, if someone wants to fire you for any personal reason, they will come up with some policy that you broke.
I think getting an education is extremely easy (and you don't have to go to college to be educated), maintaining good relationships with co-workers is all about politics, in my opinion.
Overreacting | 1:43 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Most seem to be overreacting - right now in Utah men and women are represented
roughly equally in higher education - nothing terrible with that. In fact, many
states are struggling with the "lack of men" and are doing similar
studies on why men seem to be falling behind as a percentage of students. If in
other states, the 50:50 ratio was "the average" like it is in Utah,
would this study be carried out at all? It's all to do with the statistical
aberration, which draws attention to itself.
It's actually pretty admirable the level of education Utahns seems to garner, given the cultural norm to earlier marriages and starting of families. It would seem to indicate your state is doing quite well in terms of educational and family growth.
It's actually pretty admirable the level of education Utahns seems to garner, given the cultural norm to earlier marriages and starting of families. It would seem to indicate your state is doing quite well in terms of educational and family growth.
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"Nationwide, 57 percent of college students are women. Across Utah's public higher education system, that number is about 49 percent, according to the latest 2009 fall enrollment numbers."
So we have parity here in Utah (49% is as close as you'll ever get). Why are we worried about this?
The real study should be why only 43% of college attenders nation-wide are men.
Are men not at least as likely to need to support a family? Do men need education less than women? Where are the cries for equality?
THE REAL STUDY SHOULD BE: how and why are boys getting shortchanged in our "post-modern" educational system, to the point where they can't/won't go on to succeed in college.