Deseret News | Hatch says Muslims have his empathy

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Hatch says Muslims have his empathy

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Anonymous | 2:53 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

But we dont' yell "In the name of God" when we do stupid things, and those stupid things dont involve killing Americans for being Americans.

Loveld | 2:58 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Big Difference Senator Hatch. When Mormons do something wrong they don't do it while chanting "God is Great" or "Praise God" Mr. Hasan chanted the same phrases that were chanted by terrorists when they beheaded several of our Americans in the Middle East 4 or 5 years ago. Had he not chanted those phrases, than I could understand your point but this killing spree clearly had a religious nature to it. I do not understand how the federal government can continue to let Muslims off the hook. In World War II when Pearl Harbor was attacked, the government rounded up all those of Japanese decent and placed them in concentration camps. How is this NOT any different? 9/11 was JUST as serious as Pearl Harbor and now a full 8 years later, Muslims are still killing within our borders.

weedcracker | 3:02 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

... oh please Orrin... not another testimony!!!

Comments continue below

You Idiot | 3:35 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Orin, most Mormons before they do something stupid to not ivoke God. This was really a stupid thing to say.

wingnut | 3:52 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

That comparison didn't make any sense Sen. Hatch. Sounds like a bunch of babble to me.

ok | 3:53 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

I sympathize too - but I also dont know of any Mormons who have declared war on anyone.

Hatch should go. | 3:56 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Hatch at his PC best.

John Pack Lambert | 3:58 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

What about the LeBarron killings. They were done in the name of God. What about Warren Jeffs? There was another killing back in the 1980s the name of the perpetrator escapes me.
Yes, none of these were members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Many had never been, and others like Brian David Mitchell had been excommunicated well beforehand.
However, Muslims do not have a centralized hierarchy, and it is not really possible for them to make it so someone is no longer a Muslim.
Most Muslims do not attend congregations where America is denounced anymore than most Evangelical Christians, even in the specific denomination that the Rev. Wright was part of, regularly hear lines like "God ---- America" at Church.

Hatch is smarter than | 3:58 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Hatch is smarter than Bennett.

John Pack Lambert | 4:02 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Some days I think Orrin Hatch is far to liberal and fair minded of a senator for some people he represents.
He empathisizes with people, and some of you seem to want to throw the first admendment under the bus.
I think the one possible drawback to Elder Oaks talk was he was not quite explicit enough in saying what he ment when he said religion should not be a criteria when voting. On the other hand, even if he had specifically denounced those who refuse to vote for Muslims, it would not have been reported in the Tribune. He essentially did that, without being that specific, because there are many issues, and Elder Oaks packs his talks with lots of stuff in a few words, especially when he is on the tight schedule that BYU-Idaho devotionals are under.

Mikee | 4:13 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

As much as I hate it, I have to agree with Orrin on this point.

How many hatemongers roamed the streets of America looking to hurt white christians after Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols bombed the Alfred P Murrah building in Oklahoma City?

If you guessed ZERO, you're absolutely correct.

To Loveld | 4:13 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

This is very different than when we rounded up Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor because with the benefit of hindsight we realize that was unconstitutional and a huge injustice.

It's true people of all backgrounds do "go off the rails", but I don't know if we know that's what happened here yet. Unless Hatch knows something the rest of us don't, I believe he spoke prematurely.

what in tucket? | 4:25 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

When a Muslim blog says those killed in Ft Hood will go to hellfire, something is wrong. Deport that guy. I am sure many Muslims do not like the terrorists. After all in Iraq and Afghanistan there are millions of them. However I have yet to see any comments that local Muslims have made. I suspect they have made them.

Cyette | 4:29 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Most Mormons aren't plotting the deaths of innocents.

Neither are most Baptists. Neither are most Athiests.

The US Army was asleep at the PC wheel on this one. We have let the wolves in the fold and until we wake up, this will just be one more sad footnote in history as we let radicalized Islam take over the world.

And no, Mr. Hatch, they will not be tolerant to you in return. I am appalled you are this naive.

practicing Islamic | 4:29 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

this guy was no more a practicing Islamist than Brian David Mitchell was a practicing Mormon. That's the point of Senator Hatch's empathy. That the guy shouted an Islamic phrase and then killed 12 people IS the point - he was nuts! The comments above that still seem to want to throw all Islam into the same box is the exact point that Senator Hatch was trying to make. Anonyous at 2:53; Loveld;Youidiot at 3:35 and Wingnut - you people are missing the whole point.

Forgotten Man | 4:38 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

It's obvious that Islam is a factor you shouldn't ignore when deciding whether a person is a potential terrorist or not. It may not seem very tolerant or nice but it definitely is a risk factor.

To Mikee | 4:42 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

You are missing the point. Did McVeigh and Nichols chant religious slogans when they did what they did? To the best of my knowledge NO!! Their religion had no impact in their decision making. It's clear from what's being reported that Hasan had very anti-american views and was allowed to stay in the Military without regard to his opinions. I would be very nervous to be an American soldier at this point and sleep in the same room as a Muslim. I would have to sleep with one eye open.

To practicing Islamic | 5:01 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

I disagree. The news media has clearly indicated that Mr. Hasan regulary attended his religious meetings. He did his regular prayers. He even had a bumper sticker about "Allah is Love". Brian David Mitchell was NOT regularly attending anything when he did what he did. You are comparing a mentally deranged man (Brian David Mitchell) to an Army Medical doctor? Clearly he was of much more sound mind. His religion led him to do what he did. And if "Allah really is Love'? Then I don't want ever want to know "LOVE".

Hatch | 5:03 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Hatch has been in D.C. too long and has to go.

DD | 5:20 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

During the investigation of the Oklahoma City bombing, links were established between Nichols and a member of Al-Qaeda involved in the 1993 WTC bombing. It's likely that they didn't act alone at all and were operating in cooperation with members of the "religion of peace".

Anonymous | 5:33 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Hatch is an idiot! Last time I checked the Mormon religion has not declared war on western society. They also don't have written in the Book of Mormon that the infidels must die. Also after such an event, members of the Quorum of the 70 (Imam equivalent) do not start to praise these insane loser who committed the atrocity, telling others to follow in his footsteps.

This man did what he did, because he was an extremist of his religion, not because it just so happen that he was Muslim.

Megan | 9:56 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Good for Hatch. Shame on most of you. Wow, DN commenters.

Suze713 | 1:47 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Stop letting Muslims off the hook! The man is a Muslim terrorist plain and simple. You and your friends in Washington, especially Obama, better wake up before it's 9/11 all over again. How we dishonor our soldiers, those who died at Ft. Hood, and those who serve and die elsewhere, by putting our heads in the sand. The Mormon comparison was ignorant.

THEeyepatch | 2:27 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Well, I guess I was censored earlier. Hatch completely missed with his comments. With censorship, maybe there should be empathy.

Ed Clinch | 5:56 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

The Muslim/LDS/religious comparisons have their place, and the contrasts are valid as well.

Obviously, we are in a global war with wahhabist/jihadi radicals, not the majority of Muslims.

And unlike parts of the Middle East like Saudi Arabia or Yemen, the enemy makes up maybe a fraction of one percent here rather than a full percentage overseas.

US Muslims, by and large, are safer than most American Christians, Jews, athiests and wiccans. And then there are the growing 16 % plus secular non-declared Americans.

Don't hate us who believe in an organized faith, please. Someday you may be the biggest plurality, but don't let that go to your head.

Constitutional freedom connotes that we can all agree to believe differently, religion or no.

But about the real enemy: it composed of all shapes, colors, and belief-systems. Like that killer in Cleveland who killed at least 10? Secularist? Baptist? Doesn't matter: whacko!

watcher | 6:10 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Why do they fight so hard against us? Soon the Muslim birth rate will over power all of Europe and with out a shot being fired they will run the world.

We are so naive....

God is Great? | 6:23 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I guess all of you self-righteous Christians out there have forgotten about the Crusades and the Inquisition? It's easy to forget about all the bloodshed done in the name of Jesus, the Prince of Peace, when there is another target.

There are always going to be bad apples that threaten to spoil the rest of every bunch. Why do we still fear and hate those who are different from us? When will we truly love and forgive each other?

Bigwj | 6:33 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Lets call a terrorist a terrorist if thats what he is And what he did was a act of terrorism

Poor choice | 7:19 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Once again Orin Hatch talks out of turn. I think it is time to muzzle him.

Sandy | 7:41 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I would agree it's too early to say anything about Hasan's religion affecting his actions. Hatch can talk about how all Mormons are implicated when one nutcake Mormon does something, but he shouldn't have assumed anything about Hasan's faith and motivations yet. It's way too early.

As for deporting him, he has willingly and in sound mind killed 13 people. It's either life in solitary confinement, or the death sentence for him, not comfortable living in some Muslim country . . .

BobP | 7:42 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

More recent news has Hasan making substantial efforts at contacting al Queada. Perhpas Orring spoke too soon.

We need to sharpen Hatch up. And we need to get rid of Obama in 2012 by voting him out.

freedom | 7:58 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

It's okay to draw parallels and find crazy "Mormons" who have done bad things
. . . but the LDS belief in free agency is undeniable. No LDS father would even think of killing his daughter or son for leaving the faith. If Latter-day Saints ever controlled the government, their doctrines would require them to respect different beliefs. Not so with Islam.

Anonymous | 8:02 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Sen. Orrin Hatch is right! You can't hate all Muslims because of this shooting incident that is very dangerous idea. It doesn't mean that we don't accept what happened to Fort hood, Texas.

We are tent to point out what one person did so all the group are evil that is truly hate claim.

I truly respect Sen. Orrin Hatch very much. I hope we all will see his examples of understanding of people who are oppositions. Love thy neighbors as thy self.

Don't judge others instead you should look at yourself and repent. God is the only one who judges But Not You!

Hasan Is Not Insane | 8:11 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Hasan is part of a radical Islamic ideology that is AT WAR with the rest of the world. In China, Afganastan, the Phillipeans, the Middle East, Europe, America, Africa and everywhere else. They will not rest or quit until they have a global Islamic state. And this won't happen so the war will go on. We have been in this battle for 20 years but it only came home to American on Sep 11, 2001. Stop being so naive in your comfy little neighborhoods and wake up. This is not one rogue guy - it is an ideology. We cannot tolerate everything for the sake of political correctness if it threatens our very way of life.

Hasan deoest want the right to religeous freedom or the right to free speech. He wants you to live by HIS laws and belief system. This is a clash of ideaologies at its core and the other side isn't willing to battle this out in the court of public opinion. They want to do it will bullets and bombs.

RL | 8:22 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I am trully saddened by the racist and bigoted remarks here.

Utah really is the only Southern State in the west.

The POINT is . . . | 8:23 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

The REAL POINT is that most Muslims are NOT trying to jihad us! Read the Koran--I have read parts, and as a practicing member of the LDS church I'm amazed at how much of it sounds familiar.

The Muslims that ARE causing problems are the extremists. It's like saying the FLDS are the same as LDS.

Stop stereotyping! That's what Hatch is saying. Judge individuals, not groups. Isn't that what LDS want for themselves?

california | 8:26 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I used to wonder how otherwise educated Germans could fall for the Nazi propoganda and turn on their Jewish neighbors with such brutality. It seemed that all they needed was permission from the political authorities. Many of these posts, today and over the past week, reveal some voices in America that sound strangely akin to Nazi Germany. By portraying all Muslims as terrorists-in-embryo, we dehumanize them, making it easier for us to rationalize their mistreatment. All that is lacking is someone in power to say "its alright to hate them". I can understand now how the Nazis were able to accomplish their evil designs, even within one of the most advanced cultures on the planet.

to Muslims | 8:28 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

hard for me to see the Muslim faith as peaceful and good with all the death and violence that is taught and practiced by this religion. Sorry but the facts speak volumes about the faith.

Muslim-Utahn | 8:42 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Reading some of the outrageous comments above is the very reason why Hatch felt the need to make this statement.

The problem is that the very day that Maj. Hasan decided to go out on his inhumane killing spree, a nut in florida did too. The difference? One was labeled 'religious extremist' and the other just a 'disgruntled employee'.

If we want to speak about 'Islamic terrorism' then lets first backup our thoughts with actual Islamic teachings because once we do the research we will find that Islam categorically REJECTS such acts of violence.

If we see a car bashed into a tree, we don't blame the car, we blame the drunk driver. Let's not blame Islam for what a handful of muslims do, there are over a Billion muslims on the planet, with Millions here in America and Thousands in the armed forces. Islam teaches us love for our neighbors and country.

Terrorism is committed by people of all faiths, whether it be a killing spree at a base, workplace, highschool or a college campus -- religion doesn't verify these acts but condemns 'em.

Delusional | 8:42 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

If even 10 percent of American Muslims adhere to the radical Al Queda (and Hamas) interpretations of the Quran, then we have a big problem not only in this country but in the Military with Domestic, home-grown terrorism, as the Fort Hood Shootings demonstrated. So Hatch can "make nice" with all of the politically-correct niceties, and certainly not all muslims are "going off the rails" as he said, but people have to be delusional not to acknowledge that we have to keep our eyes open to this very real threat. No amount of Political Correctness is going to keep us safe.

Cody's Mom | 8:47 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

The last time I checked I know of no Bishops, Stake Presidents or General Authoritys of the LDS church who call for people of other religions to be killed as do the Imans of the Muslim religion....because of that fact, and that he kept in close contact through email, at the very least, to his former and very radical Iman Hasan's relgion does come in to the reason's for his actions.

Law abiding muslims | 9:26 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I agree with 'practicing Islamic | 4:29 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009'
It doesn't matter what he was chanting when he went on this rampage - He was not a spokesperson for the Muslim religion. Senator Hatch's point is that we shouldn't judge all Muslims (fastest growing religion in the world by the way) by the action of one lunatic muslim - no religion would want to be treated that way. FYI - There are hundreds of millions of peaceful law-abiding Muslims in the world today.

wow just wow | 9:35 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

wow, for once I agree with Hatch and reading this thread it is clear that he was right on target. One person how happened to be Muslim tries to use his religion to do justify something horrible and you all want to condemn the entire Muslim community. It makes me wonder how those of you behaving this way are really any different then the terrorist when you want to condemn an entire religion because of a few off the farm trouble makers. They use terrorist tactics and you want to use the full force of our military might, perhaps some of you maybe familiar with the term might does not make right.

Mike | 9:40 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

While it's true that most Muslims are not bad, this particular Muslim was bad. Also the brand of Islam he practiced was bad. The radical beliefs he apparently had were bad. He is a product of his belief system.

I applaud that gentleman from Killeen that is a devout Muslim yet served in the Army in Desert Storm who tried to talk sense to this guy.

Muslims kill other Muslims all the time, everywhere in the world. Why should this one Muslim have a cow about going to a place where Muslims are being killed by Americans? Especially when other Muslims have no problem killing other Muslims?

silly comments | 9:40 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

so let me see if I got this straight some of you are claiming because he said "In the name of God" we should assume that all Muslims agreed with his actions? so what if some Wal-Mart worker decides to go off the farm and attack a Kmart and screams in the name of walmart should we assume that the cooperate leaders and all other Wal-Mart employees across the country agree with his actions? yes it is a silly example but I am trying to respond to a ridicules claim so though are go!

Anonymous | 9:44 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

I don’t know why my comments are being censured... I guess we can't remind ourselves and our fellow LDS members about the Mountain Meadows massacre...and how awful it would for others to judge *all* Mormons on that event. Much like they are doing to the Muslim faith.

Lot of Haters | 9:46 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Whole lot of haters on this board today. Senator Hatch is absolutely right; it's bigoted and senseless to blame a whole religion for the acts of one lunatic who happens to belong to that religion. Sad to say, no single religion has a monopoly on goodness ... or badness, for that matter.

I can't believe the bigotry | 10:16 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

We don't blame all members of a religion for the illegal acts of one member, in this case acts that have been condemned by other Muslims. Many commenters on this post are just prejudiced against Muslims, apparently (and probably anyone from a Middle East background, I suspect).

ceecee | 10:27 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Wow. I am appalled and disheartened at the racist, narrow minded comments here. The Ft. Hood shooter was a deranged individual who happened to be Muslim. He communicated with other like minded individuals. That does NOT mean that every Muslim is looking to harm the U.S. Just like those rednecked backwards baptists/christians/mormons who make comments against Obama don't really mean any harm. There are RADICAL people everywhere, of all creeds and colors and religions. Do not condemn a country, a people, a religion by the actions of a few. If that were the case, then the mormons should be condemn for the Mountain Meadow Massacre.(all in the name of religion, right?) For once, i agree with Orrin (scary but true!)

DOTF | 10:48 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

God is Great wrote: "I guess all of you self-righteous Christians out there have forgotten about the Crusades and the Inquisition? It's easy to forget about all the bloodshed done in the name of Jesus, the Prince of Peace, when there is another target"

Where did you study history? Why do you think the crusades took place? Did it EVER OCCUR to your little mind that what was once a Christian land was conquered by the Muslims. Yup, they actually drove the Christians out or forced conversion. Did you know that Egypt was once a Christian country? Islam didn't conquer it or anyplace else with love. I get absolutely livid when I hear comments like this. It shows a big gap in your common sense and that your source of news and history is the PC newspapers.

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