Deseret News | Germans thank Gorbachev for wall coming down

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Germans thank Gorbachev for wall coming down

Anonymous | 10:29 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009

As the world celebrates a great achievement one of the main players- the United States- is missing in the celebration. I have one question- why, Mr. President, did you not feel the need to go celebrate with the world?

Ronald Reagan | 10:36 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Interesting how there is no mention of President Reagan and his role in getting the wall torn down.

Thank Gorbechev? | 10:40 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009

What isn't well known is that West Germany PAID a huge sum of money to Russia to get East Germany back, a fact that has had a very bad effect on the German economy. So thank the Russians--I don't think so. They had no business extending the partition of Germany for so long after WWII.

The sad thing is that we let them--and today our government isn't even mentioning the reunification of Germany. Curious!

Comments continue below

CougarKeith | 10:43 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009

It was an amazing event! We can thank Gorbachov, but we must also thank Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, Pope JohnPaul II, and others in the FREE World who continued to speak out, which helped to bring about this wonderful change! Gorbachov was a wonderful world leader, and he is lucky he wasn't arrested by those in the "Pullit Bureau" for some of the daring changes he proposed and brought about! He is a very brave and couragous man. To bad we don't have leaders like him in our government, we could use a couple! Men that stick to CONSERVATIVE VALUES, and stand for FREEDOM, and for the cause of the CONSTITUTION as our forefathers intended!

Vance | 10:48 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Anonymous: It's simple. Obama is sorry the wall came down. He longs for the days when he can build one here.

In short, he does not see any reason to celebrate a defeat of socialism/Marxism. That's why he isn't there.

Anonymous | 11:08 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Because history has seen Ronald Reagan was empty shell. He said a one liner that conservatives tried to amplify as an example of this nebulous conservative construct, "moral clarity." "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" Was little more than a Reagan photo op in Berlin trying to mimic Jack Kennedy's speech. "Ich bin ein Berliner"

Reagan, like most Americans failed to understand that a Berliner in Germany, is a pastry. :-)

The German people held back their laughter out of respect.

It was communication that made those in the East see that life was better in the West that got this wall removed. We see the same affect of global communication with youth in Iran today. It's hard to control the story now.

Today, we have the clear of hindsight that has removed the fog of Reagan's moral clarity." Reagan cut and ran from Beirut, had the beginning of the Taliban trained and armed and the Reagan presidency still holds the record for federal convictions. He sold Iran arms. How does this reflect on Reagan's morality?

Over time history will be harsher on Reagan and will be kinder on Carter.

R Reagan's tribute? | 11:09 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009

To continue this logic, we should credit Jimmy Carter credit for getting our captured citizens
out of Iran and Nansty Pelosi credit for the transparency and bipartisan support for her socialist/universal healthcare bill.

Gang of Four | 11:15 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009

CougarKeith at 10:43 correctly identified the gang of four responsible for causing the wall to tumble.

Earl | 11:20 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009

@CougarKeith: I love it! "Pullit Bureau!" I assume that has something to do with the regulation of misspelled chickens, right? Could you be referring to the Politburo?

Dirk Strongjaw | 11:37 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009

If Obama was there you'd be complaining that he wasn't home taking care of the economy and acknowledging the Ft. Hood tragedy and that he was catering to Europe too much.

This is the same toxic accusatory groupthink that plagued GW Bush and poisons this country's political discourse. EVERYTHING is their fault and they're ALWAYS doing it wrong. Get past the bumper sticker sloganeering and actually engage yourself in reality.

KM | 12:28 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

"Tear down this ignorance Mr. world!"

Forever amazed | 12:51 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

There can never be a question that you will never get everyone to agree on the "truth" because each person sees it from their own perspective, tainted or otherwise. I clearly am amazed that a person would put Reagan down and Carter up, but clearly, this establishes that the world is one wacky place. There are probably people out there that think Pelosi is amazing and that the Fort Hood killer is a hero. I just keep shaking my head in near disbelief, but having seen it most of my life now, I am finally accepting that this is the way it is. Heaven (yes, I do believe in that too) help us.

BobP | 1:12 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Putting Gorbachev in the limelight was good. He was a courageous man who put a stop to the worst of the Soviet tyrany.

Leaving Reagan out was a mistake.

why? | 1:26 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

I am an old man, old enough to remember the wall going up and coming down. I do not think Reagan played no role but how exactly do some of you justify giving Reagan so much credit while giving no credit to the rest of the world, previous presidents and the force of time coupled with of a world community that differed so much from the reality that many in these oppressive societies experienced? I think it is great that the republicans have a sense of pride in Reagan but I am not convinced this praise for his effect on the fall of the wall is not misguided.

Mona | 1:43 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

The book, His Holiness, by Carl Berstein, covers the effect Reagan and Pope John Paul II had in bringing down communism. I believe they, Gorbachev and others were the right people at the right time to do what had to be done.

Truman | 3:17 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Giving credit to a select few for the fall of the Berlin wall is short sighted indeed. What of all the demonstrators, who fought for months couragously, yet, peacefully for their freedom? There were tens of thousands of them; like a tidal wave, that the communist government coudn't stop! The Churches in East Germany played a huge role in the freedom movement. And many politicians on both sides of the wall had their share in the events that lead up to the 9th of November 1989, including leaders from e.g. Poland, Hungary and, of course, West Germany, like Kohl, Genscher. Margaret Thatcher, though, to my knowledge was NOT one of them, because she was afraid of what a reunited Germany might become.

Like a puzzle there were hundreds of pieces that came together to bring to pass the end of the wall.

And, yes, America was thanked many times in the festivities in Germany today. Also, Mrs. Clinton was present and Mr. Obama had sent a video message.

Jemmy | 3:19 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Re: Anonymous | 11:08 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009 - I'm a native German speaker and can assure you that when Kennedy said, "Ich bin ein Berliner!" the audience understood him clearly. The confusion about the word Berliner was created by a US newswriter stationed in Berlin who had only limited German language ability. It's just an urban legend.

As to who brought the wall down we Germans believe it was a complex situation where no one entity can claim responsibility. Certainly the US outspending the USSR in military equipment under President Reagan tamed the Soviet response to the freedom movement. I wouldn't say the US played the key role however. The pivotal moment came when hundreds, then thousands and eventually hundreds of thousands of East Germans demonstrated for the ability to travel freely to any country they wished to. Eventually the government of East Germany signaled a willingness to loosen the restrictions but by then the momentum of protest was too great. I give the greatest credit to the brave East Germans.

By the way, the USA also prohibits its citizens from traveling to any country they choose. Where are the protests?

what in tucket? | 3:26 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

I did not see the name Reagan mentioned in the article. Gorby was a stout communist, but the Soviet Union was collapsing as a result of Star Wars. Even today Russia is passing into the dustbin of history with a rapidly declining aging population. Reagan stood tall, but it appears Obama is standing small.

Don | 4:29 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

To Anonymous 11:08 AM.

Sorry but you are incorrect in your comments regarding President Ronald Reagan!
A hollow shell with a one liner? Your understanding of history is flawed in realizing the many steps over a 40 year period that President Reagan took to help crush the tyranny of Soviet Communism! On a number of occessions President Reagan put the Soviet leadership on notice of his intent to free Eastern Europe. To support this position and that of other Americans and true fighters of freedom I would encourage you to read the accounts of the meeting between Reagan and the Russian leadership in Iceland and review U.S. policy regarding military build up and economic security which were very much enhanced! President Reagan was no EMPTY SHELL, but an inspired leader who helped free tens of millions and was credited as such at the time AND AT HIS FUNERAL! Maybe only a hard core hater of Reagan could come up with such a thought! Then again today, even the Secretary of State of the United States failed to show proper respect! But then what else can you expect from a party that views appeasement over strength!

Don | 4:50 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

That's right. Another Gorbasm.

Reagan? What did he do?

Doug G | 4:54 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

The thing is it was an article about gorbachev and not ronnie because gorbachev was there. Today. And, former east germans saw gorbachev as one of the main players, moreso I think than they saw in Ron. Ron did play a role, as did the pope, in the peaceful implosion of the soviet union. Still, I think gorbachev's role is often understated, and this was a good article.

Re; Anonymous 11:08 | 5:03 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Bitter much? I guess the fact that empty-headed warmongering B-movie actor did what none of the "intellectual" classes said was possible in 1980 still must sting a bit.

In reality, Gorbachev originally didn't want to tear down the wall. It was only after he realized the West could match him tank-for-tank, plane-for-plane, missle-for-missle that he decided to make nice.

Before then, he was a committed communist.

You lefties are just upset that Reagan beat communism, which is why they still refuse to give him credit in today's news coverage. That's fine, the average American knows better.

Oh,and how's that People's Revolution in Iran going so far? I'd be willing to bet that by January 20, 2013, Mahmoud Imanutjob will still be in power and possess nuclear weapons, all with the tacit support of the Obama Administration.

You don't beat tyrants by coddling them.

BO was too busy | 5:28 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

BO was too busy to attend. I mean freedom isn't really his thing anyway.

Hey Cougar | 6:22 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

It's spelled "Gorbachev", and "Politbureau", or in some circles "Politburo". As for men sticking to conservative values and standing for freedom, let me know when I can get the license for that private liquor store in provo. Until then, best not keep trying to convince me that conservative and freedom go together.

JanSan | 8:12 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

So much said....

BUT, I REMEMBER watching this on TV!!

I remember turning TV on with no expectation of what I would watch and just flipping through the channels until I came to the most amazing thing I could possibly imagine seeing !!!!!

I remember setting on the floor and watching people fileing out of the gate, scared looking to see if it was somehow a trick and they would get mowed down by guns... AND THEN... I saw people take hammers and whatever the could get their hands on and beat at the bricks over and over for hours until it started coming down...

I sat transfixed with tears pouring down my cheeks.. unable to take my eyes off of what I was watching... A true to life miracle before my eyes...

You sit there and judge... complain about this person or that... and you miss the beauty of what truly happened !!!

That day is fixed forever in my memory..
Even with me being in New Mexico - it was as if I were there.. such beauty.. such glory,fear, joy excitment...

You guys with all of your arguing are missing the point... It was a modern day miracle!

Wrong Guy, But... | 8:59 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

They were thanking the wrong guy. But you can't blame them. The guy they should be thanking on bended knee passed away five years ago.

johntvalentine | 10:17 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Shame, on all those so called Americans. That have kind words of dictators, that have MURDERED and kept, God's precious liberty and freedom from our beloved world citizens !!! Those that call themselves Americans. DON 4;29 p.m.Nov.9,2009. You have got it right, with all it's TRUTH. 40 years ago Russia's Anita Kruchev, pounded his shoe on the podium, in the U.N. Building . Shouting to all American's " We will bury you within". It was all a forest. For forty years Kruchev,Gorbachev,President Ronald Regan and other great citizens of the world. Set the Liberty plan in action. I thank God in Heaven, for America's beloved CONSTITUTION. Thank you DON 4:29 p.m.. A word to the wise is sufficient.

Don | 11:19 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

How pitiful it is that there are Americans who are unwilling to give Ronald Reagan credit when it is due! The major leaders of the world gave Reagan credit and it is a fact that his administrations policies in dealing with the Soviets and crushing them economically and militarily left the Soviets no choice but the give in!

For anyone to assume they know more than Margaret Thatcher, Helmet Kohl or other leaders who praised REAGANS LEADERSHIP needs a pride draw down! Even Gorbachev backs this up in his writings? What is it exactly about Reagan that no one else knows in the world that you do that proves Reagan is not the one to give credit to in leadership?

It is disgusting and a slight to his name that many leaders gathered today to praise the 20 years of freedom with the wall down, and the President of the United States did not attend! While all of Europe was there! Obama sends a tape talking about Kennedy who passed away 26 earlier and of course himself! What did Obama do at 27 to free Europe? Nothing!It just hurts when a Republican does well! Or JFK(D)!

Don | 11:25 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

John T Valentine: THANK YOU!

Oh my! | 12:45 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

It's typical. Here this wonderful thing happened and all you guys can talk about is, what role the American guy played (of course, it MUST be the pivotal role in the whole thing. The American guy is always THE crucial guy) and of your dislike of liberalism and President Obama. That is so sad. Why must you always be so competitive and caught up in your ideologies? Grow up!

Truth is, none of this could have happened without the East German people fighting for their freedom. They went on the streets not knowing what would happen. For all they knew, the government was ready to use all force to fight them down and even kill them. And then they brought to pass a peaceful revolution, which is what tonight was mainly about.

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