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In our opinion: Lessons from the Berlin Wall
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Remember the wall? | 7:52 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
I remember the wall, shocked when it went up, horrified as the machine guns
quickly tore into desperate people risking life to dare to dash to freedom on
the other side. My childhood was filled with watching footage of people daring
to run for their lives hoping to reach freedom before guards in the towers would
notice - rapid fire bullets took their lives again and again as they risked all
rather than live under Soviet oppression! Americans how soon we forget - and
propaganda covers the horror to modern youth unaware of the past. The dead do
not repeat the truth from their history!
Re: Remember the Wall | 8:17 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
Your comment was very moving and thought provoking, most Americans don't
really remember or understand the signaficance of the Berlin wall or it's
demise. In this day and age when our way of life is being threatened by
terrorists (and polititicians)we sadly take our freedoms so much for granted.
USSA? | 8:27 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
Ah! The USSR is no more, apparently. Or perhaps it is being reassembled in
Obama's USSA.
His administration is seeking to control the economy more than ever (since Roosevelt' Thirties regime)with a takeover of the auto industry (minus an independent Ford) and the planned takeover of the health care industry.
They seek to have a unified "Pravda" or, in Orwellian terms, a "Ministry of Truth" with the strenuous efforts to exclude Fox News, the only dissident voice among the networks, and daily venom spewed at conservative Talk Radio.
They will lose with the efforts of the people and, perhaps, a providential tide of events. I hope the USA survives; the USA, not the U.S.S.A.
His administration is seeking to control the economy more than ever (since Roosevelt' Thirties regime)with a takeover of the auto industry (minus an independent Ford) and the planned takeover of the health care industry.
They seek to have a unified "Pravda" or, in Orwellian terms, a "Ministry of Truth" with the strenuous efforts to exclude Fox News, the only dissident voice among the networks, and daily venom spewed at conservative Talk Radio.
They will lose with the efforts of the people and, perhaps, a providential tide of events. I hope the USA survives; the USA, not the U.S.S.A.
Comments continue below
brian | 8:39 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
indeed a big day. and it's quite american-centric to believe that pres.
reagan's speech at the wall in 87 was the most important reason it fell. a
full view of that time clearly shows that while his speech was powerful, the
real heroes behind the fall were gorbachev, the solidarity movement in poland,
and the quiet work a hungarian reformers who saw the folly of communisim and
were making sure it came to an end while they had the support of gorby.
BobP | 9:24 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
JFK said about the wall; "Ich bin ein Berliner". A Berliner is a
cream filled bun.
Reagan said; Mr. Gorbachev, tear don that wall.
Reagan said; Mr. Gorbachev, tear don that wall.
Lew Jeppson | 9:57 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
"By now it seems clear President Ronald Reagan played perhaps the biggest
role, with help from British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher..." Actually
it's not clear at all. Without a doubt the western arms buildup was a
factor in Soviet transformation, but it was one among many. The west
essentially gave up trying to understand Russia and China with the communist
takeovers. This is tragic, because these societies have been in a constant
state of evolution, not all of it good. Present day Russian capitalism is every
bit as corrupt as Soviet communism it its closing years. So, does our ideology
explain what has transpired? Moreover, explain if you can how it is that the
recently super-communist Chinese are whipping us at our own capitalist game? My
point is that there is a great, great deal we do not understand about the
ongoing transformation of the east, and simple sound bites don't help much.
June | 10:47 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
Good editorial but it underestimates the role of
Gorbachev. He recognized that communism had failed and allowed the Berlin Wall for fall. I hope history will give him due credit.
Gorbachev. He recognized that communism had failed and allowed the Berlin Wall for fall. I hope history will give him due credit.
Earl | 10:54 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
Deseret News editors are still apparently under the spell of the Reagan
mystique. I was at one time, too, so I know how it feels. Eventually, though,
the truth of the matter comes through, and it takes persistence to ignore it.
One free-market economist visted the USSR in the early 1980's and returned
with this comment: “We have nothing to worry about; the place is one big
Department of Motor Vehicles.”
The demise of the Soviet Union was inevitable, regardless of who was president at the time. The fall was from the inside out, not from outside forces, unless you call Afghanistan an outside force. It was, at its root, an internal rotting of the system. No empire can long exist that bases its economy on debt and irredeemable paper money. The USSR was bankrupt. Sound familiar?
The demise of the Soviet Union was inevitable, regardless of who was president at the time. The fall was from the inside out, not from outside forces, unless you call Afghanistan an outside force. It was, at its root, an internal rotting of the system. No empire can long exist that bases its economy on debt and irredeemable paper money. The USSR was bankrupt. Sound familiar?
2 bits | 12:30 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
The main lesson I learned from Berlin is... NO nation, economy or political
system is TOO BIG, or TOO IMPORTANT to fall.
To "Lew Jeppson | 9:57 a.m.' | 12:35 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
Lew Jeppson | 9:57 a.m. and Earl
You guys just CAN'T STAND to give any of the credit to Ronald Reagan, can you?
Of course it wasn't all him, but if you could pull your head out of your partisan political sand for just a moment... You'd have to admit that his policies and leadership had a lot to do with it.
You guys just CAN'T STAND to give any of the credit to Ronald Reagan, can you?
Of course it wasn't all him, but if you could pull your head out of your partisan political sand for just a moment... You'd have to admit that his policies and leadership had a lot to do with it.
@9:57 | 1:21 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
How? I am an old man old enough to remember the wall going up and coming down as
the first poster so movingly wrote about but I do not think Reagan played no
role but how exactly do you justify giving Reagan so much credit while giving no
credit to the rest of the world, previous presidents and the force time coupled
with of a world community that differed so much from the reality that many in
these oppressive societies experienced? I think it is great that the republicans
have a sense of pride in Reagan but I am not convinced this praise for his
effect on the fall of the wall is not misguided.
Former Berliner | 3:45 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
It was Reagan, Kinda... (but more the people of the East) I had the unique honor
of talking to the Secretary of State of the DDR (East Germany). He said that
there was a protest of 300,000 people in Berlin that night, and they planned on
storming the wall. The government told all guards to open fire on anyone trying
to cross. Word got to the Amis, British and French that they were planning on
slaughtering that many people that night, and Reagan and the coalition said if
that happens, open fire on the guards to save the people. Right before WWIII
happened, the East told the the guards to stand down. That's why on all the
news footage you see coalition forces that close to the wall. They traditionally
were farther back. Just imagine if the East German guards HAD opened fire!
Earl | 4:02 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
To 12:35: I'm happy to give Reagan credit where he deserves it. Like I
said, I was a Reagan idolizer at one time, but I believe I have things a bit
more in perspective now. You have to understand that I don't have a
"favorite" president. Some did less damage than others, but just about
all of them did their part to lower the standards of the country. About the only
half-decent presidents were Presidents Harding and Coolidge. It goes downhill
from there. But to give credit to Reagan for Soviet ineptitude is going too far.
They shot themselves in the foot. He just happened to be president when their
empire imploded.
Tim D | 4:07 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
It happened because the people in eastern Europe believed Reagan when he talked
tough and stood with them. He did what he could and that gave them courage to
do what they could. Not like the guy we have now who is more interested in
being liked by Putin than having free nations in eastern Europe.
Re: Earl & @(:57 | 4:23 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
Thank you for your comments. We oppose propaganda from other regimes. But our
nation seems to love American propaganda and take it as the truth.
Catholic used to paint John Paul II as the USSR's nemesis. Republicans loved to think that Reagan was the one behind the fall of the Berlin Wall. However, if we read history we can see that an empire as complex and corrupt as the Soviet Union was bound to fell from within and it did.
Mr. Reagan will be remembered for other things, like Grenada, Iran-Contra. The destabilization of Central America which generated the largest illegal immigration into the U.S. His trickle down economic system that created the largest economic deficit in the history of the U.S. until that time. George W. Bush attempted the same thing were worse results. There are other things for which Mr. Reagan will be remembered, the fall of the Berlin Wall shouldn’t be one of them. Before becoming an LDS I was impressed by a Mormon slogan I heard. “Only when we are not afraid of the truth we can find it” (free translation) It seems there is a lot of fear in Utah.
Catholic used to paint John Paul II as the USSR's nemesis. Republicans loved to think that Reagan was the one behind the fall of the Berlin Wall. However, if we read history we can see that an empire as complex and corrupt as the Soviet Union was bound to fell from within and it did.
Mr. Reagan will be remembered for other things, like Grenada, Iran-Contra. The destabilization of Central America which generated the largest illegal immigration into the U.S. His trickle down economic system that created the largest economic deficit in the history of the U.S. until that time. George W. Bush attempted the same thing were worse results. There are other things for which Mr. Reagan will be remembered, the fall of the Berlin Wall shouldn’t be one of them. Before becoming an LDS I was impressed by a Mormon slogan I heard. “Only when we are not afraid of the truth we can find it” (free translation) It seems there is a lot of fear in Utah.
Voice of Reason | 5:22 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
I see a LOT of straw man potshots being taken on here...nobody I see is saying
that Reagan deserves "all" of the credit, and I see nobody denying
that other factors were critical in the fall of the Soviet Union. But to deny
that Reagan and Thatcher weren't at the VERY least instrumental in
hastening the inevitable downfall of Russian/Eastern Bloc Communism is
practicing revisionist history.
Also, I love it when some leftie in love with his own thoughts tries to say - again - that Reagan's "trickle-down economics" created the late 80's deficit. The truth is, if Congress had passed Reagan's budget cuts along with his politically popular tax cuts, the deficit would have been much, much smaller and possibly even have disappeared. His tax cuts were actually a critical catalyst to the largest peacetime economic boom in recorded US history.
I know aaaaall the leftist arguments against this, and they aaaaall can be show down easily with facts. With time, I have faith that the angry anti-Reagan left will fade and unbiased historians will recognize his contribution, which is already happening to some extent.
Also, I love it when some leftie in love with his own thoughts tries to say - again - that Reagan's "trickle-down economics" created the late 80's deficit. The truth is, if Congress had passed Reagan's budget cuts along with his politically popular tax cuts, the deficit would have been much, much smaller and possibly even have disappeared. His tax cuts were actually a critical catalyst to the largest peacetime economic boom in recorded US history.
I know aaaaall the leftist arguments against this, and they aaaaall can be show down easily with facts. With time, I have faith that the angry anti-Reagan left will fade and unbiased historians will recognize his contribution, which is already happening to some extent.
Reagan Underestimated | 6:18 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
While I agree that Solidarity and persistent opposition within the Evil Empire
had a great effect in winning public support for the cause of freedom, something
else was needed. The Soviet Union could easily squash resistance within their
sphere of influence, and they did time and again.
The Soviets were vulnerable, however, to world opinion and the no nonsense acts and words of two powerful leaders of the West.
Reagan, the Great Communicator, scared the innards empty of Gorbachev when he (Reagan) said "Tear Down That Wall!".
These weren't empty words. Ron Reagan's "Strategic Iniative" took the nuclear wind out of Soviet sails. Now the West could not only launch its nuclear warheads as well as their Communist enemies (USSR and China) but could intercept theirs.
With all due respect to others who fought long and hard it was the strength of Reagan's resolve, after a procession of soft words and big sticks wielded by the indecisive and half-hearted Containers and Appeasers formerly in the White House and the State Department, that broke the resolve and changed the strategy of the Communist nuclear powers.
The Soviets were vulnerable, however, to world opinion and the no nonsense acts and words of two powerful leaders of the West.
Reagan, the Great Communicator, scared the innards empty of Gorbachev when he (Reagan) said "Tear Down That Wall!".
These weren't empty words. Ron Reagan's "Strategic Iniative" took the nuclear wind out of Soviet sails. Now the West could not only launch its nuclear warheads as well as their Communist enemies (USSR and China) but could intercept theirs.
With all due respect to others who fought long and hard it was the strength of Reagan's resolve, after a procession of soft words and big sticks wielded by the indecisive and half-hearted Containers and Appeasers formerly in the White House and the State Department, that broke the resolve and changed the strategy of the Communist nuclear powers.
Lew Jeppson | 6:21 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
As an interesting aside, I was listening to NPR this PM. The writer being
interviewed illustrated how the historical record gets manipulated to suit
political argument. Regarding Margaret Thatcher, she made clear to Brent
Skowcroft that she, to put it mildly, had no interest in a reunified Germany (no
doubt the memory of what Germany did to the UK was fresh in her mind). The
Soviet Union was changing just as much from events within as from external
pressure which, as this anecdote makes clear, was a lot more ambiguous than the
Deseret News implies.
Regarding President Reagan I admit to having some positive feelings about him when he was president, but, good grief, the adulation of the right has risen to personality cult.
Overall, however, I think he was one of our most gifted presidents in terms of his sheer political ability. I admit this even though I disagreed with him most of the time.
Regarding President Reagan I admit to having some positive feelings about him when he was president, but, good grief, the adulation of the right has risen to personality cult.
Overall, however, I think he was one of our most gifted presidents in terms of his sheer political ability. I admit this even though I disagreed with him most of the time.
my slc | 6:54 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
My gaud!
Why don't the republicans just dig Ronald up, put him in a chair and run him as president.
The 80's were not that great. I was there.
Why don't the republicans just dig Ronald up, put him in a chair and run him as president.
The 80's were not that great. I was there.
Anonymous | 7:38 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
"Overall, however, I think he was one of our most gifted presidents in
terms of his sheer political ability. I admit this even though I disagreed with
him most of the time."
Even today, the Reagan Administration holds the all time record for federal convictions.
"With all due respect to others who fought long and hard it was the strength of Reagan's resolve,..."
He cut and he ran from Beirut and sold arms to Iran while Reagan was having our CIA train Osama Ben Laden.
Why let facts interest with your delusions.
Even today, the Reagan Administration holds the all time record for federal convictions.
"With all due respect to others who fought long and hard it was the strength of Reagan's resolve,..."
He cut and he ran from Beirut and sold arms to Iran while Reagan was having our CIA train Osama Ben Laden.
Why let facts interest with your delusions.
True | 1:13 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Thank you President Reagan. The world is better and safer with your focus on
freedom.
Voice of Reason | 1:48 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
@ 7:38pm,
What a bunch of easily disproven lies. Of course, the Reagan Administration does NOT hold any "record" for criminal convictions...the Reagan officials who were convicted were all - ALL - pardoned or had their convictions overturned. The independent prosecutor for Iran/Contra, Lawrence Walsh, was infamous for prosecuting innocents into bankruptcy. It was a purely politically motivated prosecution against Reagan for doing the right thing in Nicaragua, which infuriated Senate liberals who thought THEY should be in charge of foreign policy.
That's not a defense of everything done during Iran/Contra, but Reagan almost certainly did not know of it. Liberal claims that he did are purely & solely based on them "just knowing" he did.
Saying that the CIA "trained Osama Bin Laden" is hugely misleading...we trained our allies the MUJAHEDEEN, who were fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan; bin Laden was only a PART of this. And Reagan, I suppose, should have seen into the future regarding the monster he would become but wasn't at that time.
What a bunch of easily disproven lies. Of course, the Reagan Administration does NOT hold any "record" for criminal convictions...the Reagan officials who were convicted were all - ALL - pardoned or had their convictions overturned. The independent prosecutor for Iran/Contra, Lawrence Walsh, was infamous for prosecuting innocents into bankruptcy. It was a purely politically motivated prosecution against Reagan for doing the right thing in Nicaragua, which infuriated Senate liberals who thought THEY should be in charge of foreign policy.
That's not a defense of everything done during Iran/Contra, but Reagan almost certainly did not know of it. Liberal claims that he did are purely & solely based on them "just knowing" he did.
Saying that the CIA "trained Osama Bin Laden" is hugely misleading...we trained our allies the MUJAHEDEEN, who were fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan; bin Laden was only a PART of this. And Reagan, I suppose, should have seen into the future regarding the monster he would become but wasn't at that time.
To "Lew Jeppson | 6:21 p.m." | 1:53 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Lew Jeppson | 6:21 p.m.
I don't think anyone's saying RR was the only or even the MAIN reason the wall fell. I think it's obvious he wasn't. I was just pointing out how hard you guys work bending over backwards to MINIMIZE any credit you may give to him for being instrumental in this world changing event.
I'd be willing to bet you guys would give a LOT of credit to Barak Obama if HE were so bold and challenged the world to change so much and IF such world changing events occured during HIS administration.
Just pointing out the political blinders.
I don't think anyone's saying RR was the only or even the MAIN reason the wall fell. I think it's obvious he wasn't. I was just pointing out how hard you guys work bending over backwards to MINIMIZE any credit you may give to him for being instrumental in this world changing event.
I'd be willing to bet you guys would give a LOT of credit to Barak Obama if HE were so bold and challenged the world to change so much and IF such world changing events occured during HIS administration.
Just pointing out the political blinders.
interesting | 1:56 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
interesting that the DN choose to post "true's" comment and not
the three I posted asking for evidence that reagan played anything other then a
a minor role of turning a cute phrase.
Hint to "interesting | 1:56 p.m | 2:57 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
interesting | 1:56 p.m.
If your posting contains mis-representations it won't get posted. It also won't get posted if it's over 200 words, offensive, insulting or off-topic.
Those are the ONLY reasons it wouldn't get posted, so you must have violated one or many of those rules or your comments would have been posted.
Keep in mind... the topic is NOT Ronald Reagan (even though people seem to have gone off on that tangent for some reason).
If your posting contains mis-representations it won't get posted. It also won't get posted if it's over 200 words, offensive, insulting or off-topic.
Those are the ONLY reasons it wouldn't get posted, so you must have violated one or many of those rules or your comments would have been posted.
Keep in mind... the topic is NOT Ronald Reagan (even though people seem to have gone off on that tangent for some reason).
Re "interesting | 1:56 p.m" | 3:01 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
interesting | 1:56 p.m
It's more than the "Tear down this wall" sound-clip. That speach was the SMALLEST thing he did to help this event happend when it did.
Some people may give him TOO MUCH credit for it and some may give him too little. What does it matter? It happend. THAT is the important thing. Do you disagree?
I woudn't be suprised if you thought it was a "Bad thing" just because it may be possible to twist that into being a complement of a Republican President.
It's more than the "Tear down this wall" sound-clip. That speach was the SMALLEST thing he did to help this event happend when it did.
Some people may give him TOO MUCH credit for it and some may give him too little. What does it matter? It happend. THAT is the important thing. Do you disagree?
I woudn't be suprised if you thought it was a "Bad thing" just because it may be possible to twist that into being a complement of a Republican President.
prunoid | 4:25 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
The last 18 months have proven that free market does not work especially the
savage-style capitalism practiced in the U.S.
Banks and companies that should have been left to fail are being propped up with bail-outs by a government that goes around preaching free market when they can't even walk the talk.
Banks and companies that should have been left to fail are being propped up with bail-outs by a government that goes around preaching free market when they can't even walk the talk.
prunoid | 4:30 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Reagan was the beginning of the end for America. A wild spender, Reagan started
setting federal deficit records.
He was loved for his Hollywood style persona.
He was loved for his Hollywood style persona.
Obama vs Reagan | 4:43 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Evidently Barak Obama has ALREADY done more to promote peace in the world than
either President Ronald Reagan or British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher.
Neither of them have EVER won a Nobel Peace Prize... And Barak Obama was
nominated after 10 DAYS in office and no actual accomplishments that helped
bring the world peace?
Neither Ronald Reagan nor Margaret Thatcher have ever won this distinguished prize. I wonder why? (Hint - Conservative)
The reason is pretty obvious. Thatcher was the leader of the "Conservative Party" from 1975 to 1990. They couldn't give the award to someone associated with something called the "Conservative Party"!!!
And Ronald Reagan was an admitted REPUBLICAN!!!! Enough said.
Lech Walesa was honored with a Nobel Peace Prize in 1983! (WELL deserved BTW). Probably didn't hurt that he was the leader of a Trade Union. That's basically the same as being a DEMOCRAT, so of course he deserved to win his!
I'm just messing with you Democrats. Of course Obama is already deserving of the award and Reagan never was!
Oh... Mikhail Gorbachev got one in 1990 too. But he was a member of the "Communist Party" so of course he deserved it!
Neither Ronald Reagan nor Margaret Thatcher have ever won this distinguished prize. I wonder why? (Hint - Conservative)
The reason is pretty obvious. Thatcher was the leader of the "Conservative Party" from 1975 to 1990. They couldn't give the award to someone associated with something called the "Conservative Party"!!!
And Ronald Reagan was an admitted REPUBLICAN!!!! Enough said.
Lech Walesa was honored with a Nobel Peace Prize in 1983! (WELL deserved BTW). Probably didn't hurt that he was the leader of a Trade Union. That's basically the same as being a DEMOCRAT, so of course he deserved to win his!
I'm just messing with you Democrats. Of course Obama is already deserving of the award and Reagan never was!
Oh... Mikhail Gorbachev got one in 1990 too. But he was a member of the "Communist Party" so of course he deserved it!
I don't think so | 4:55 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
"Mr. Gorbachev, TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!" said Reagan who almost
single-handedly put the country on a downward spiral we may NEVER recover
from.
And the stupid neocons today believe that this was the thing that brought down the Berlin Wall.
LOL!
And the stupid neocons today believe that this was the thing that brought down the Berlin Wall.
LOL!
Voice of Reason | 5:04 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
prunoid,
Actually, Reagan was extremely fiscally conservative. It was the Democratic Congress that denied Reagan his many spending cuts and spent us into a huge national debt.
Actually, Reagan was extremely fiscally conservative. It was the Democratic Congress that denied Reagan his many spending cuts and spent us into a huge national debt.
prunoid | 5:58 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Reagan was just as fiscally conservative as Bush. Reagan believed and practiced
massive defense spending.
I know Utahns hate Obama, but he is dealing with a whopping mess left to him by Bush and the hypocritical GOP.
I know Utahns hate Obama, but he is dealing with a whopping mess left to him by Bush and the hypocritical GOP.
@Lew J | 6:20 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009
.."good grief, the adulation of the right has risen to personality
cult".
QUOTE
President Ronald Reagan might have been a mediocre President in your eyes, or in a more heroic age but, considering all the wimps that preceded and succeeded him he was dynamite!
No one had the sense and the nerve to stand up to the Evil Empire - or even call it The Evil Empire.
So he was a one-eyed president in a succession of blind ones. In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
My List of ALL great American presidents:
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
John Adams
Andrew Jackson
Ronald Reagan
QUOTE
President Ronald Reagan might have been a mediocre President in your eyes, or in a more heroic age but, considering all the wimps that preceded and succeeded him he was dynamite!
No one had the sense and the nerve to stand up to the Evil Empire - or even call it The Evil Empire.
So he was a one-eyed president in a succession of blind ones. In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
My List of ALL great American presidents:
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
John Adams
Andrew Jackson
Ronald Reagan
To "LOL @ 4:55 p.m." | 9:23 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009
Nobody said it was that comment you referenced that did it.
But good attempt at setting up a lame strawman you can attack. Nobody is stupid enough to think that one comment had any significant impact on what happpened.
If YOU do, I can see why you would think your comment was so funny.
But good attempt at setting up a lame strawman you can attack. Nobody is stupid enough to think that one comment had any significant impact on what happpened.
If YOU do, I can see why you would think your comment was so funny.
Voice of Reason | 9:41 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009
prunoid,
Yes, the Democratic Congress allowed Reagan his increases in defense spending. However it never amounted to more than 8% of the yearly deficit, tiny compared to domestic spending. And thanks largely to that military buildup, you & I live in a world free of the Communist threat once posed by the Soviet Union.
I don't "hate" Obama - as usual, those are the exclusive words of straw man-burning lefties. I disagree profoundly with Obama's domestic policies, however, which is taking to new depths the irresponsible spending of Bush and the GOP Congress - both of whom forgot their conservative roots. You see, prunoid, unlike liberals, conservatives don't blindly support a single party...we support PRINCIPLES, and we readily abandon any party-including the GOP-when it forgets those principles.
Yes, Bush & Co. put us on the freight train of deficit spending over the last few years. But Obama has taken us off that train...and put us on a friggin' SPACE SHUTTLE.
Yes, the Democratic Congress allowed Reagan his increases in defense spending. However it never amounted to more than 8% of the yearly deficit, tiny compared to domestic spending. And thanks largely to that military buildup, you & I live in a world free of the Communist threat once posed by the Soviet Union.
I don't "hate" Obama - as usual, those are the exclusive words of straw man-burning lefties. I disagree profoundly with Obama's domestic policies, however, which is taking to new depths the irresponsible spending of Bush and the GOP Congress - both of whom forgot their conservative roots. You see, prunoid, unlike liberals, conservatives don't blindly support a single party...we support PRINCIPLES, and we readily abandon any party-including the GOP-when it forgets those principles.
Yes, Bush & Co. put us on the freight train of deficit spending over the last few years. But Obama has taken us off that train...and put us on a friggin' SPACE SHUTTLE.
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Tourists look at the installation 'Vanished Berlin Wall' by South Korean artist Eun Sok Lee on the eve of the 18th anniversary of the opening of the Berlin Wall in front of the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin, Germany, Thursday.
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Why wont he come forward? Why wont he help in every way possible? Oh wait,...
Congress hasn't paid attention to the Constitution in at least 100 years....
re:Unenforceable | 11:13 a.m. Dec. 16, 2009 "This is just feel good...
When he took the children sleigh riding at 6:30 in the frigid windy weather,...
Nevermind Boozer. Guys without tatoos are better, and purer, players.
Oh yes, he's as good as BSU in football! One good team, the rest are patsies!
This just shows you what can happen if other players are given an opportunity...
Re: Anonymous | 2:45 p.m. Dec. 15, 2009 WHAT NO INVESTAGATION OF THE...
Re LDS in TN I for one think that there is no need for chastisement if...
RE: CATS, PLEASE Get over yourself. People have feelings you know. I will...
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