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Readers' forum: Immigrants need aid

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Mike Richards | 1:16 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
America has already given each and every immigrant the greatest gift that can be given by any government to those it invites in: that is the gift of freedom, which includes the liberty to do whatever it takes to make the most of yourself.

Too many people look at the "blessings" that come from living in America without first looking at the "responsibilities".

As an American, you have the responsibility to take an active part of every aspect of life. You have the freedom to do whatever you desire and the responsibility to "desire" to take care of yourself and your family.

You have the freedom to speak your mind and the responsibility to fill your mind with the ideals and principles laid down by America's founders so that you understand the principles that will lead to success.

You have the freedom to worship as you please and the responsibility to acknowledge and show gratitude to that God you gave you life and the opportunities that you now enjoy.

You live in America. It is up to you to help yourself and then to lend a hand to your fellow citizens.
@ Mike Richards | 8:04 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
"It is up to you to help yourself and then to lend a hand to your fellow citizens."

So, the author of this letter is giving her fellow citizens an opportunity to help - for which you berate her and then go on to say people should help others.

In essence you are saying that people should not ask for any help from any one else, but they should always be ready to help those who need it.

How does that even make sense? How can you help people if they don't ask for help and let you know you can help them?

You do realize, if the Native Americans had chosen not to help the European settlers you probably would not be here, right?
Opportunity | 8:40 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
For legal immigrants it is opportunity they have sought for the most part. They have it, and might greatly enhance that by learning to speak the "lingua franca" as fluently and lucidly as possible.

I have helped Hispanics to learn English without charge. Their downfall is frequently a proud reluctance to lay aside their own language, sometimes even an attitude that this is their land, not ours.

For those seeking to learn and support the principles of freedom memorialized in the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution of the United States, and the Bill of Rights, and to act and speak understandably in their support, immigrants can be a vital help to a nation slipping into socialistic practices.

I am an immigrant myself and know more about, and believe more in, these priciples than the vast majority of those who were born here.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 8:45 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
I don't get it. We claim to be a Christian nation yet we act in un-Christian ways.
Wilkey | 9:20 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
Ms. Tarley, earlier immigrants had none of these programs you mentioned. The earliest immigrants didn't even have hospitals, schools, roads, or any other kinds of infrastructure at all. Yet they managed. As for the help you seek, the real problem with so many refugees is not that they need help TODAY - that can be provided) but that so mny are still needing help 10 years on.

Refugees should be settled closer to home. There are about 50 other countries in Africa in which Liberian refugees could have been resettled, in many of them language and culture would not be a barrier.

** "I don't get it. We claim to be a Christian nation yet we act in un-Christian ways." **

What are these "un-Christian ways" to which you refer? Anyways I thought the First Amendment barred the establishment of religion. Mention that we're "a Christian country" for conservative reasons and you'll get blasted, but liberals get away with it for their on reasons every single time.

** "So, the author of this letter is giving her fellow citizens an opportunity to help" **

"Giving" us an opportunity to help...HER. How gracious of her.
Literacy Action | 9:23 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
Contribute to the various organizations that provide english lessons and literacy. After that, there are many many programs including education and food stamps and housing and medical care available to all including immigrants. We cannot make these people wards of the state. Look what has happened to the American Indian. Such status leads to misery and degeneracy. People must make the effort and reap the rewards of the opportunities available in this great nation.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 11:45 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
It's true, illegal Immigrants need aid through ICE to get deported faster, back to where they came from in the first place.

As for real Immigrants with a real visa and was sworen in as a true American that need aid, do like the rest of us here, in the land where the streets are paved with gold bricks, work 2 full time jobs, save up, build a nest egg, then, buy your aid yourself, this is the word's of the GOP.

Or ask Obamanation to resque you.
Philosophical Advice | 11:50 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
If your main reason for coming America was for FREEDOM... you'll find it. If you came looking for AID... you may not.

In America we have FREEDOM... Even the freedom to fail.

That said... I think most Americans respect legal immigrants a lot and are willing to give a lot to aid them.

But you shouldn't think of that aid as an entitlement, more like a possibility.

In America... the only SURE way to make it is work super-hard and do everything YOU can to overcome your challenges. My grandparents did it. It was VERY hard, but the only thing I ever heard from them about immigrating was:
1. It was worth it.
2. There is no substitute for hard work and perseverence.

And yes, ANYTHING we can do to aid our immigrant brothers and sisters is a VERY, VERY, VERY good thing and will probably come back to bless our lives several times over.
@ Wilkey | 11:51 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
"Ms. Tarley, earlier immigrants had none of these programs you mentioned. The earliest immigrants didn't even have hospitals, schools, roads, or any other kinds of infrastructure at all. Yet they managed."

Yeah - and if it hadn't been for the help offered by the Native Americans the earliest immigrants would not have managed.

Additionally, instead of learning the native tongue, the earliest immigrants continued to speak their language - and demanded the Native Americans learn it as well.

And, in case you haven't noticed - things are a lot different now then they were when the earliest immigrants came here. I am sure most current immigrants could have managed fairly well way back when being presented with the same situation all immigrants at that time were presented with - but we hardly live in that world anymore. A great many things have changed and we can no longer survive using those old methods.
G | 12:54 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
Try looking at it this way:

If someone forgot to bring their lunch to work and I (also moneyless) saw my wealthy neighbor’s wallet sitting on his desk unattended, I would not be justified in stealing some of his money to feed my hungry friend.

On the other hand, if I saw someone who was starving to death or suffering severely, I would weigh the wrongfulness of stealing against the wrongfulness of allowing that person to suffer extremely or die. I would justify my stealing some of my neighbor’s money. (afterwards, I would tell my neighbor what I did and accept the consequences.)

So it should be with immigrants (legal or illegal). If they are just struggling, we are not justified in taking money from the rich (via taxes) just to improve their lives. People become strong by facing struggles in life.

However, if life is at stake or if someone is suffering to any extreme, we have an obligation to put mercy above all our other values. We are not a praiseworthy nation if we hide behind our constitution to justify mercilessness and hypocricy.
to:G | 12:54 p.m.  | 1:26 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
You stingy greedy Scrooge Conservatives just don't get it.

As we as a society vote for something, and willfully agree to be taxed for Healthcare -- that is NOT stealing.

If you, however refuse to follow the laws we've passed....and don't pay taxes, that IS stealing.

I loved how you used a starving co-worker as an example.

Go ahead and stuff your fat face and let someone else starve.
Sharing is something you obvious are not capable of understanding.
Mike Richards | 1:41 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
@ 8:04,

Let's clear the air on a few points. In order to immigrate into America, the immigrant needs a sponsor who pledges to help with all necessary things until that immigrant has been able to establish himself.

That is role that one of my good friends, who emigrated from Greece, performed many times for others. He found them a place to live. He provided a job for them. He helped them enroll in school to learn to speak English. He was their brother, their father, their mentor - until they were able to live without his help - then he repeated the process with someone else.

Those who immigrated to America learned from their sponsor what it meant to be an American. They did NOT turn to the Government with their hands out. They did NOT learn to whine and complain that someone else owed them anything. They learned to be self-reliant. Many of the immigrants repeated the process themselves, sponsoring others. They never felt that they weren't good enough. They were shown the way and most of them quickly adapted to their new country.
@@wilkey | 2:06 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
What would have changed history all together, would have been if a muslim nation would have invaded America. The result would have been much worse for the "native americans" they would have been totally obliterated off the continent. But the darn Christians brought enlightenment and a never ending dole.
KM | 2:11 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
@12:54
I'm going to waste my breath here with you, because I know it will get me nowhere.
You are a stingy greedy scrooge who is only interested in the here and now! How could you burden generations to come with you foolish spending of printed and borrowed money? Don't you care about the unborn? Oh, you are probably pro abortion, so thats a dumb question.
Spending what you don't have is a form of stealing. It also leads to slavery and bondage. I wish you would consider the law of unintended consequenses before you vote for marxist politicians and their crippling agendas.
To "1:26 p.m." | 2:24 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
1:26 p.m.

You need to get off your self-reightous high-horse. You're NOT the only one who understands compassion or helping one's neighbor.

You need to quit seeing things as black-or-white, Conservative-or-Liberal, etc. We ALL understand and care for our fellow human beings. Liberals may just have a different way of going about helping their fellow humans (ie Taxes). While Conservatives may have yet ANOTHER way of doing it (ie charity).

But you need to drop the "I'm right, your wrong"... "Only Liberals are compassionate"... "Conservatives just hate everyone and want to stuff their faces while everyone else starves"... type political rhetoric.

Nobody wants to stuff their face OR for others to starve.

This, "I (or my political-party) are better than yours"... type Jr High bickering is getting us NOWHERE!

Blaming EVERYTHING on the other political-party ALSO gets us nowhere!

Your party has been in control of the government for quite some time now. When are you going to start holding THEM accountable for something?

We need to focus on making progress... NOT seeing how dogmatically we can blame the past on others!
to:Mike Richards | 1:16 a.m.  | 2:29 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
So,
How about that "Perpetual Immagration Fund" program?

---------------

And don't give me the line about it being a non-government program.

Utah wasn't even part of the United States back then.
Anonymous | 3:04 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
My advice to the letter writer:

Avoid republicans.
@ "KM | 2:11 p.m." | 3:16 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
KM | 2:11 p.m.

Settle down! Not EVERY liberal fits our stereotypes. Chances are you are wasting your breath, but you never know. Don't just assume they are pro-abortion or pro-socialist economy just because they identify themself as a "liberal".

Jumping to conclusions based on political labels is something BOTH sides need to learn to postpone until you have at least exchanged ideas.
@2:24 p.m.  | 3:44 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
Your "Charity" ain't working.
Mike Richards | 3:52 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
@ 2:29,

If you're interested in helping others, you can donate to the "Perpetual Education Fund". That program is in operation right now. There is no limit to the amount that you can donate. So, if you're a man or woman of action, contact the LDS Church and make a large donation. You'll be helping without having the baggage of having everyone know that you're charitable.
@1:26 | 4:17 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
You might learn how to read before commenting on things. I provided a simple analogy and instead of learning from it, you twisted it and used it to judge and demean me.

If a majority voted to use your money to buy dinner, it is an injustice to you. I don’t care if your simple mind classifies it as stealing or not. Since the people who will pay for universal healthcare are not a majority, it is NOT ethical to vote to take their money. If it is an emergency, it might be justifiable. Otherwise is it not.

Were you to open your eyes, you’d realize that society wants to help the needy, not the greedy. The needy are the people who are dying or suffering. The greedy are people like you who just want government to give you everything.

Your lame comment illustrates your inability to even comprehend another viewpoint. I stated that the starving person WAS fed. It was the merely hungry person that was went without. And that was only because I had no money. But you don’t have to try to understand. You have insults to spew.
to:Mike Richards | 3:52 p.m.  | 4:27 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
There you go again, Mike Richards.
How many times do I need to remind you, Charity does not equal money $$$

The letter writer states the need for one-on-one help and assistance.
And I couldn't agree more!!

Grocery stores,
medicine,
transportation,
Some of these folks have never had access to a refridgerator.

They also need legal advice and help.

The DMV is a hassle to me, and I've lived here for 47 years!

Get out and DO something to help others.
Jesus didn't go out handing out money to bless the poor.

Charity (and life) is not about the money!
@1:26 | 6:15 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
"As we as a society vote for something, and willfully agree to be taxed for Healthcare -- that is NOT stealing."

Genius! We conservatives get it now. So, if a majority (most of which will not see a tax increase) votes to take money from the rich minority, we don't have to call it stealing.

By the way, poster @1:26, the society at my office just voted and willfully agreed that you are pay for our lunches for the rest of our lives. Remember not to call it stealing.
Mike Richards  | 8:13 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
@ 4:27,

Exactly what is troubling you?

I pointed out that to immigrate you need a sponsor. That sponsor is responsible to HELP the immigrant learn how to function in America. That does not necessarily require money, but it takes time. I gave an example of someone who has done that all of his life. Is that objectionable to you?

2:29 posted about the Perpetual Immigration Fund. Since he ignored the fact that there is the Perpetual Education Fund, which prepares people to take care of themselves by being qualified to earn higher wages than they would have without education. Do you object to that program?

Do you object to my first post where I advised that an immigrant needs to take responsibility for his own life in America and do everything necessary to take care of himself?

Do you simply object to any post that didn't originate from your computer?

What does the word "AID" mean to you? A helping hand? A pat on the back? A word of advice? An open wallet?

Are you the only one who helps others? Most of us would consider that a myopic view.

Get A Clue | 9:13 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
The letter says that immigrants need aid.

Yep, they do.

However, so do the people that LEGALLY live in this country.

See, since there are people who LEGALLY live in this country that have needs and those who are NOT here legally that have needs, the people who are here LEGALLY have a moral and ethical RIGHT to have THEIR needs taken care of first.

The people here ILLEGALLY?

Their needs should be taken care of only AFTER the needs of the LEGAL citizens and then ONLY if it's something we agree to do.

Would it be any different if you or I were in Greece or Japan or Russia or any other country ILLEGALLY?????????????????

Uh, that would be "no".

So the "needs" of the illegals?

Since America is such a mess right now, they need to go home and go home now.

Even my 12 year old boy can see this.
@ get a clue | 9:57 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009
Your compassion is exceedingly tiny.
Sanctimonious | 12:39 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
Definition: self-righteous

Synonyms: Bigoted, goody-goody, holier-than-thou, hypocritical, insincere, pious, preachy, self-satisfied, smug, stuffy

Antonyms: humble, meek, modest

Ring any bells?

Why must some of you jump to the conclusion that Ms. Tarley is NOT doing all she can do to help herself? No, you just feel the compulsion to lecture her on pulling herself up by her bootstraps. So gracious. So praise-worthy.

Just a few suggestions for some catchy new Conservative Repub Mottos:

"I got mine! Get your own!"

"Jesus said love your brother, but he didn't MAKE anyone do it!"

"Don't steal my lunch and give it to someone else!"

"Legal children are #1!"

And lastly,

"I DON'T CARE!!!"

And this is the party that claims that claims moral superiority.

To "3:44 p.m." | 8:49 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009
3:44 p.m.

How do you know my Charity isn't working? You don't even know me!

FYI
I have helped several families and individuals legally immigrate to the United States. Our family regularly hosts exchange students from Japan, Brazil, Korea and Germany. I have several immigrant neighbors who I help and advise both financially and spiritually on a regualr basis.

What are YOU doing to help them? Just pay your taxes? We ALL do that!

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