Reader comments
State writing test shows racial, income gap
20 comments | Read story
A thought... | 6:20 p.m. Nov. 6, 2009
Teachers already know who can and who can't write. How about we stop
paying for huge tests and put that money in the classroom. Pay for more
teachers working with fewer students. Those students could write more and get
more personalized support to learn correct writing practices.
Another thought | 12:34 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
How much of this problem could be attributed to biased teachers. Not deliberate;
but maybe a greater effort would be spent on an underperforming student if they
wasn't a slight bias. Teachers are great, but if they see a student who is
successful, is it possible that they could want to identify with that
student's success more than with another student's failure?
2 A Thought | 2:03 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Where would you put the money? Without data and direction the money could be
spent on those that are already proficient and might be skimped on those who
need it. But without the data then you don't know where it should be
directed then people will whine that we are wasting it. Probably people like
you who speak without thinking.
Comments continue below
Illegals skills | 3:31 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Who care about the writing skills of illegals? They are not americans and have
no business in our work force in this depressed economy. And who cares about
their incomes levels which are bogus anyway because they are paid under the
table and with tax free wages. That makes any income data on illegals very bogus
and very very inaccurate. This is a stupid report riddled with data that
can't be verified or proven. It's meaningless.
When these reports can verfify and prove incomes and any other data on illegals then they will have some merit. Otherwise, stop this insanity in our education system.
When these reports can verfify and prove incomes and any other data on illegals then they will have some merit. Otherwise, stop this insanity in our education system.
Common Sence | 6:17 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Stop bi-lingual education and teach english. The students need to be taught in
the linguafranca. Better english standards equal better writing scores.
a stupid thought | 6:33 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Teachers and administrators do not know who writes well and who doesn't
write well. To say that assessing student performance is a waste of time is
truly a stupid thought.
Anonymous | 6:39 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
NEA and UEA do not help the situation.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 8:09 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
SIMPLE, if Utah QUIT letting in those illegals, that can't read or write
English, the data show Hispanic and lower-income students continue to struggle
with writing skills, this would go away.
From a teacher | 9:43 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
I strongly support holding students to a high standard, but when ELL students
earn a lower score on writing assignments, I'm screamed at by
administration that I have to give 'accommodations' to them (ie: raise
the score for no good reason). Perhaps it is these 'accommodations'
that are setting lower standards for ELL/low income kids. We should teach them
that, yes, it's harder for you so instead of lowering standards you'll
have to work harder. Then they'd have a shot of passing the DWA.
Clare | 10:09 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
I do not understand your logic, Anonymous. How does the NEA and UEA figure into
this? I'm working hard on improving my students writing scores. Writing is
always the most difficult to teach and the most time consuming. When you have
large classes, how can you help the lower ones when you must teach to the middle
so you can reach as many children as possible? The idea of smaller classes sizes
or specialists to help the needy is an excellent idea.
DARK future | 10:32 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Betcha they would beat the pants off of 'traditional Americans' if the
exam was given orally and in Spanish.
Anyone remember the bell curve?
Anyone remember the bell curve?
Cultural norms | 11:11 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
This is more evidence that social status and economic circumstance has a great
impact on performance in schools. Schools can't be all things to all
people. The question is whether or not students and their families take
advantage of what schools have to offer and whether or not they have a personal
culture of valuing education. The fact that Asian kids outperform all ethnic
groups is evidence of that.
utah rose | 12:38 p.m. Nov. 7, 2009
The students should be exposed to English from Kindergarten on and ESL should be
eliminated. That's the only way to learn a language, just as Italians,
Greeks, etc. learned it many years ago. It may be a struggle at first, but
gradually they will be better readers and writers.
Of course this is politically incorrect. And as for the teacher whining about large classes----we boomers in the fifties grew up in large classes. The difference was our parents and the schools expected us to learn.
I think in some cultures, namely Asian, teachers are respected but in others the parents don't expect the kids to go to school every day let alone respect the teachers or do their homework.
Another thing---must be nice to go to school (elementary) for 4 1/2 days a week, or even 3 or 4 some times. All of this UEA teacher learning and lesson planning is for the birds. How much education can the average student be getting this way? And pile the homework on. Kids will still have time for play and other things if parents realize that education comes first.
Of course this is politically incorrect. And as for the teacher whining about large classes----we boomers in the fifties grew up in large classes. The difference was our parents and the schools expected us to learn.
I think in some cultures, namely Asian, teachers are respected but in others the parents don't expect the kids to go to school every day let alone respect the teachers or do their homework.
Another thing---must be nice to go to school (elementary) for 4 1/2 days a week, or even 3 or 4 some times. All of this UEA teacher learning and lesson planning is for the birds. How much education can the average student be getting this way? And pile the homework on. Kids will still have time for play and other things if parents realize that education comes first.
A thought | 12:47 p.m. Nov. 7, 2009
I did not say that data is not needed. I collect data on my students'
writing every time I read something they have written. I use that data to
inform my teaching.
The expense of tests like the DWA takes money away from the classroom, and the scores merely confirm what I already knew and could prove from my data.
The best way for a student to learn to write better is to write more and get specific feedback on what can be better. DWA and CRT types of assessment don't do that.
The expense of tests like the DWA takes money away from the classroom, and the scores merely confirm what I already knew and could prove from my data.
The best way for a student to learn to write better is to write more and get specific feedback on what can be better. DWA and CRT types of assessment don't do that.
Positive Tests | 2:26 p.m. Nov. 7, 2009
This shows that 1. english should be the State language 2. low income families
need the parents inviolvement with their kids schooling.
Clare to Utah Rose | 2:30 p.m. Nov. 7, 2009
If I can't plan for the school day, my teaching would be terrible. I guess
you think I don't spend enough of my own personal time preparing. If they
gave me twice that amount it wouldn't be enough. If you don't believe
me, go and volunteer to help a teacher prepare for each day of school and to
help with the correcting. By the way, the State Board of Education sets the
amount of time students spend in school and the UEA does have anything to do the
the planning time as you've suggested. May I suggest you get educated
before you blame teachers?
A Teacher | 6:19 p.m. Nov. 7, 2009
I look at some these comments and wonder what people think is taught in ESL.
With ESL they are learning English and strategies they can use. These kids
cannont help the background they come from. The statistics not only represented
ESL students it also represented economically disadvantaged students. I work in
a school that has both ESL and economically disavantaged students. It's
hard, but we try our hardest with these students. These students have a lot
against them and they need all the support they can get.
Joe | 10:38 p.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Americans should learn to speak Spanish. If you want a job in America you
better be bi-lingual. Doctors offices and hospitals have to provide English
translators. I am from Texas and many employers require bi-lingual employees.
Many schools teach English and Spanish all the way from Kindergarten to High
School. Wake up America, its time to be bi-lingual. In many areas of Texas,
whites are in the minority including my town. I am from SLC and I wish Spanish
would have been a requirement from grade school on. Who said English has to be
the dominant language. Its not so different then going from the English
measurement system to the Metric System. People have to be willing to accept
change.
November | 8:05 a.m. Nov. 8, 2009
Illegal aliens make up less than 4% of the US population. I don't think
they are here in enough numbers to greatly affect student performance
statistics. Many of the students in bilingual education programs or those who
struggle with English are not illegal but are native born Americans whose
primary language is something other than English. They have every right to a
free and quality education.
Many people here who have blamed the problem on immigrants didn't mention that the focus of the article was also about the income gap in academic achievement. In my experience as an educator I'd say income level and parent education level are better predictors of achievement than race or immigration status. In my opinion we should spend more money in poor areas on increasing the number and training of teachers to lower class size and provide additional support. We should encourage if not compel parents to attend monthly training sessions on the topics their kids will be learning in the coming month. That way it will become a topic of conversation in the home and the parents will feel a connection to the classroom.
Many people here who have blamed the problem on immigrants didn't mention that the focus of the article was also about the income gap in academic achievement. In my experience as an educator I'd say income level and parent education level are better predictors of achievement than race or immigration status. In my opinion we should spend more money in poor areas on increasing the number and training of teachers to lower class size and provide additional support. We should encourage if not compel parents to attend monthly training sessions on the topics their kids will be learning in the coming month. That way it will become a topic of conversation in the home and the parents will feel a connection to the classroom.
Almost a graduate | 8:59 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009
Why is there no talk regarding the responsibility of parenthood? Parents need to
step it up and do their jobs. Stop whining about teacher who do the best they
can with limited resources. Teach your own kids to read and write and other
skills. My kids' teachers have been great. They give me good feed back
about my children, and I take that feed back and work with them on being better
in areas where they aren't as good. That's my wife and my job to do at
home. Hence, my children are doing well in school as opposed to those parents
who would rather spend time watching TV or going out or hiring others to raise
their kids for them. Parenting is about sacrifice and love. Put your kids as
first priority in your life, teach them and train them, and let teachers help
you. There is no better place for education than the home.
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