Reader comments
In our opinion: 'Immigrant' children a needy lot

Page:
1
2
Next >

Patriot | 3:26 a.m. Nov. 8, 2009

What about the poor American Children? The ones whose Great Great Grandfathers and Uncles Fought, Lost Limbs, And Died in the Battlefields of WW II and Vietnam? The ones Whose Families have paid Taxes for Generations only to find themselves out of jobs due to NAFTA and GATT. They don't deserve anything?

jim | 7:56 a.m. Nov. 8, 2009

I do feel sorry for children all over the world, not just here. How should i feel towards their parents and those who hire illegal aliens when it suppresses my wages, increases my health care costs and impacts our schools and other social needs in our community? We cannot feed or take care of the world. When charity is forced upon us it is just another tax.

Misteyez | 7:56 a.m. Nov. 8, 2009

Somehow, we are missing the boat when it comes to taking seriously the Lord's admonition that we are our brother's keeper. It's time for everyday Utahns
to step up to the bat, get out of our comfort zones, and help those in need. Obviously, the state government is incapable of getting their act together to do so. Surveys are meaningless if they do not affect change.

Comments continue below

Huh? | 8:13 a.m. Nov. 8, 2009

This editorial was all over the place. Are immigrant children worse off or better off than native-born? The headline is deceiving, the article bounces back and forth between good and bad but doesn't define either.

BARBARA | 9:04 a.m. Nov. 8, 2009

If the immigrants were here legally, they wouldn't have to fear authorities anywhere! If they were here legally they could get to ESL classes and try to get ahead, along with the millions who are legal.

As a Conservative Republican | 9:42 a.m. Nov. 8, 2009

I'm very concerned that America is straying from its roots as THE land of opportunity. Democrats will inhibit and abort the creation of new, small businesses which create most new jobs and drive worldwide innovation with their move to socialize healthcare and all the increased taxes, mandates and regulation that come with it. Many Republicans are hell-bent on hiding behind walls and ending entreprenurial immigration that has so helped our country historically. We need to continue welcoming those who are searching for a better life, not via a handout but simply by providing an opportunity to apply their hardwork. Let's avoid being dogmatic and evaluate each issues based on logic, costs & benefits.

Question for Patriot | 9:45 a.m. Nov. 8, 2009

How many of those who fought & died for our freedom were sons of immigrants or immigrants themselves? This country never hurts from embracing freedom. It will cease to be great when it eschews liberty because of fear.

I am proud of the democrats | 9:47 a.m. Nov. 8, 2009

re Patriot

What better way is there to honor American Children than to take care of all children among us regardless of their origin?

Do we only care about certain of the children among us because of the accident of where they were born? This sends the message to all children that we don't care about them because of them, but we only care about them because they were lucky enough to be born in a certain place.

I am so happy we finally have a party in power who cares about all people, not just the rich, not just those children born within our borders, but we care about all people, all children.

Patriot, you are no patriot. You are a selfish little person. Were those you consider your brothers born someplace else, you wouldn't care about them, think about it. The democratic way is a higher way and I am proud of the democratic party.

evolutionfish | 9:58 a.m. Nov. 8, 2009

I can't believe people can rationalize completely ignoring a large group of children because of where they or their parents were born. The fact is, they are children, they had no choice in their parents coming here. What if I said I didn't want to help Caucasian children? What if I said they didn't deserve the help?

Anonymous | 10:04 a.m. Nov. 8, 2009

How has immigration changed over the course of our nation's hisroty? As a Native American I often feel torn between two worlds. I'm proud of my heritage yet I will never live as my grandparents did with traditional ways and a language nearly lost. Language is my most touchy subject. Unlike our neighbors to the North who have a dual language of English & French I often wonder what happened to English being the spoken word of America? I can say that I'm happy immigration took place; isn't that what the nation is made of? The point being hey, I'm happy with the life I have as an English Speaking American! So tell me when did Spanish unofficialy become our 2nd language? Shouldn't all immigrants learn the English Language as our beloved Native Americans have done? I am in complete agreement that the true story should be "AMERICAN" CHILDREN NEEDY! The reality of it is that with the exception of Native Americans all children of America are either an immigrant or descendants of immigrants. It is time to pave a new road in our Nation's future. . .Hopefully it will be as One Nation!

Report Poorly Done | 10:53 a.m. Nov. 8, 2009

"A small, related survey found that 59 percent of the respondents hail from Mexico, 20 percent were from Polynesian countries and 21 percent were from other Latin American countries."

That adds up to 100%. We have many immigrants who are from countries not mentioned above. Why were they not included?

"Roughly two-thirds of those who answered the Utah survey said they are concerned that immigration officials will raid their place of work at any time."

The solution to that is obvious - emigrate legally. Was that recommended in the report?

"English fluency is a key factor. People who cannot speak English fluently tend to avoid contact with a broader community..."

The solution to that is also obvious - take the time to learn English before you emigrate to an English speaking country.

People choose to immigrate. If they break the law or come here unprepared, their children suffer. This is the fault of the parents, not their adopted country. The remedy too is the responsibility of the parents. This is the message that must be provided to would-be immigrants before they create problems for their children.

Health care is Freedom | 11:59 a.m. Nov. 8, 2009

How does providing health care for all interfere with opportunity or freedom? Isn't the ability to go to the doctor when you need to, or the ability to take your children to the doctor when they are sick a wonderful freedom?

This is an expansion of freedom, not a constriction of freedom.

I am blessed to have a job where I have good insurance. I want this blessing for others who don't currently have it. Going to a doctor shouldn't depend on income or ability to pay. All kids, and adults deserve decent health care.

@'Patriot' | 12:15 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

These children deserve nothing less than the white ones born in Utah. Put your racism aside and do what you can to help them succeed.

Payaso | 12:17 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

Close the border to stop adding to the growth of the problem. Then it can be better dealt with. Democraps and Replicants only see an open border as potential new voters and cheap labor. I would rather have the military guarding La Frontera than getting shot at in Afghanistan.

Anonymous | 12:42 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

"I can't believe people can rationalize completely ignoring a large group of children because of where they or their parents were born."

This is believable to me. I'm more shocked by reading compassionate well thought out comments here. Reading comments written here you get the impression that compassionate in Utah is as rare as tress in the West Desert.

@Report | 12:53 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

Instead of critiquing the way the report was done, why don't you DO something to HELP these children who deserve NOTHING LESS than little white children born in Utah Valley. Their parents came here for a better life. How disappointing to find such unwelcoming, judgemental, stingy people.

Don't forget, unless you're Native American, we are ALL immigrants. Try the salve of compassion on that racist rash of yours.

Health Care & Freedom | 12:55 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

Congressional Democrats aren't planning to waive a wand and suddenly create 'universal healthcare.' They are passing new tax law, regulation and mandates to confiscate from some and to award to others. I'll no longer have the freedom to choose how a chunk of my income is saved, invested or spent.

Democrats are destroying health insurance. Insurance is getting together with a group of people to pool your risk in the event that something catostrophic happens. It's a win-win for all. By mandating coverage for pre-existing conditions health insurance disappears. They should do the same for car insurance. I could have saved thousands and thousands of dollars and waited to buy 'insurance' until the day after I get in an accident.

During the last election Vice President Biden disclosed that he gave a whopping $400 of his ~$200K/yr Federal salary & benefits to charity. I don't have a lot of respect for people who are only charitable with other peoples money. When people have to use their own funds, e.g. small business owners, households on a budget, etc, they tend to get much more creative, innovative and wise with their money.

Anonymous | 12:56 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

What it boils down to is this: contra every editorial in this paper since Cannon & Ivory took over, illegal immigrants (and most legal ones) are not a benefit to this country. They use now, and alwasy will use, far more in government benefits than they ever make up for in taxes. The result is that this country will continue to get poorer and poorer. In addition, politicians, in an effort to placate immigrant groups, will continue to make ever dumber decisions that harm us all, such as undocumented home loans that led to the real estate bubble/crash, or allowing even more Muslims into this country after 9/11.

Concerned | 1:18 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

It appears that we are allowing real citizenship to be cheapened and with less integrity. We seem to want to forsake all laws that protect the sovereignty of this great country and the rights of its citizens in the name of compassion or "for the children".

First, it is important that we keep separate the two kinds of immigrants....the legal and the illegal. The legals, which most of us come from, deserve our charitable attention and our social help because of citizenship we possess, but the illegals are not rightfully deserving of anything over and above basic human rights.

To allow anything more detracts from the pride and honor of American citizenship.

@misteyez | 1:24 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

"Somehow, we are missing the boat when it comes to taking seriously the Lord's admonition that we are our brother's keeper".
QUOTE

There is no 'admonition' that "we are our brother's keeper". That idea derives from a popular Protestant commentary on Cain's question: Am I my brother's keeper?

Cain was lying at the time pretending he hadn't killed Abel. It is not an admonition at all and wasn't said by the Lord.

We do have a responsibility to help our brother help himself. The Lord cured invalids for example, and He taught moral behavior. He never advocated state welfare/ healthcare.

The Apostle Paul made it a rule that if any did not work he did not eat. (2 Thessalonians 3:10)

There was healing at no charge for those with faith to be healed, not a demand for government health care.

The care of the poor was a matter for the Church not government. There was a prohibition on helping out young widows. Paul said to help old widows only, IF there was no family to help, such as had raised children and shown hospitality to the saints.

I Timothy: 5:3-15

Poor | 1:30 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

Look I can't afford health care either and it doesn't help to be forced to buy what I can't afford.

It's ridiculous to be complaining that those who are here illegally should be helped out coercively at the cost of the poor American citizen or legal resident.

Never have I been more sure that the "we" in "our opinion" are nothing to do with that Church who has ownership in the Deseret News. Own up. Who are the "our" in "our opinion".

I don't care!!!!!!!!!!!! | 1:39 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

Let me take care of my family! If you don't let me take care of my family, who will? Get your stinking dirty hands out of my life and out of my wallet!!!

Choices | 2:08 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

Why should I be responsible for the poor choices of others? Why should I shoulder the responsibilities of parents who choose to come illegally and burden us and their own children with the consequences because of their own decisions to commit illegal acts? I did not put these children in their situation; their own parents did. They should have considered the consequences of their actions, just like the rest of us have to do.

This study should point out the need for people to immigrate legally with intentions to either stay their allotted time and then leave or ultimately become American citizens who love this nation more than any other, who speak the national language (English), and who assimilate into the fabric of this country.

I do feel compassion for these innocent children. I am a person who would give just about anyone the proverbial shirt off my back. On the other hand, I will not allow anyone to steal that shirt off my back, and that is what is going on here.

I have no tolerance for lawlessness or those who support it. Civilization depends on most people choosing to abide by the rule of law. It's elemental.

Health Problem | 2:53 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

Like many Americans the immigrant family pictured have one obvious health problem - overweight.

@253 p.m. | 3:22 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

Interesting isn't it?

I see that everyone is lying down, or sitting down on the couch and the carpet. You can excuse the baby who might not be able to walk, but no one else is standing on their own two feet. Excuse me but I was in good shape at their age. We didn't have a carpet either, just linoleum and a few mats.

People today have no clue of what real poverty is.

Today's Children | 4:01 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

are tomorrow's Drs., policemen, legislators, dentists, teachers, nurses, engineers, sales clerks, chefs, scientists etc. etc. etc.

I think we need to make sure they have the tools they need to be successful. Our future and the future of our country depend on it!!!!!

Wilkey | 4:21 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

*** "[Today's children] are tomorrow's Drs., policemen, legislators, dentists, teachers, nurses, engineers, sales clerks, chefs, scientists etc. etc. etc. I think we need to make sure they have the tools they need to be successful. Our future and the future of our country depend on it!!!!!" ***

Right! And all we have to do is snap our fingers to make it so, right? Maybe some more welfare programs, right? Show me the welfare program that has worked. Show me the schooling that has worked to reduce the gap. Whatever it is that keeps the children of immigrants performing more poorly on average than their peers, it is hardcore, and it is irremediable by any known method. They don't value education as much as American children do.

Consider just this one data point - the percentage of California 19 year olds in college:

1996: 43%
2004: 30%

Why did it change so much, and what was responsible for the drop, and what could California have done that they weren't already doing?

such self-righteousness | 4:55 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

I just love it when people speak for God and get it wrong. He probably doesn't like it though.

UNBELIEVABLE | 5:04 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

So often on these boards I think people are faking it just to push buttons. I just can't believe that people could be so ugly, I must chalk it up to trolling. I mean this is the LDS newspaper right? Are there really that many selfish, racist people reading the Desert News? So livid about Health Care for all and calling little immigrant children fat and their parents lazy free-loaders? Telling their fellow man, "I got mine! GET YOUR OWN!"
It makes me so heartsick.

A H | 8:02 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

I think it interesting that if someone expresses their view point and it doesn't coincide with your feelings then they are racist or selfish. They are stating truths that these children's parents are illegal and that they chose to come to this country unlawfully. A shame that their children then pay the consequences.
My husband spent time in Mexico and saw the poverty there and has a lot of compassion for these less fortunate. He told me that life here is so much better that, even in their poverty here it is better than living in Mexico.
I truly sympathize I just think that it would benefit them as well as our country to do it in a legal fashion. I am a proud American and am glad for the opportunity that my ancestors had to immigrate to this country. Fortunately for me, it was done legally.

Seriously? | 8:25 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

Unbelievable? I consider myself quite committed to the LDS faith. I still don't like Nancy Pelosi confiscating my money and spending it on what she thinks is best. I think an economically free people who are allowed to be charitable or not as they see best are better off. That includes those that at times fall into the wealthy, middle class and even poor economic classes. People are accountable to God and their conscience for their treatment of the poor.

I think illegal immigrants should feel safe to call the police. I think we need to figure out a sensible way to allow for legal immigration and employment. Most pay payroll & sales taxes, if not income & property taxes, although they won't collect anything in social security until they get citizenship.

Outside of very temporary times when the mobs won out, our country has been very open to immigration - including the rich but to especially those without a whole lot. I believe our country, and the world, is much better for it. For those members of the LDS faith, I think the US's open immigration policies were as valueable to the Church as was the Bill of Rights.

Re: UNBELIEVABLE | 8:28 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

I have no problem with any person of any age from any place as long as they are following the local laws.

With that said I also don't plan on helping anyone that does not do all they can first, or at least trying to do all they can.

What I have a problem with is those that don't follow the laws and don't do all they can for themselves and there family first (or at least try their best).

You are right that the young children don't control the choices that their parents made, so they can't be held responsible for that. But once they become a certain age they become responsible. They then choose to either change and impove the situation they are in or they don't. I'm not saying it is always easy and that they don't need help. But the key is help, not someone to do everything for them.

I wish all people everyone the best and would love to help everyone, but that just is not possible. People need to help them selves.

Immigrants are human beings | 9:58 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

The reality is that "they" are here. The U.S. either did not enforce the borders or granted amnesty through Ronald Reagan.It is better for everyone in society that we have an educated people who speak better english.Stop the lingering resentment because it just creates an ugly environment that fosters a mistreatment of human being and a hostility that SOLVES NOTHING. There is no exception in Christianity when it comes to immigrants.They are human beings who deserve compassion.We need to dissociate immigrants from the immigrant problem that Mexico, along with the US politicians, have helped create.

tenx | 10:31 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

7:56am. There are about 3 billion children in the world who need help. Are you doing your part? You can send donations to relief agencies to help them rather than just admonish Utahns to help illegals.

Grand Health care to ALL | 10:35 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

Health care should not depend on being lucky enough to be able to get decent health insurance - or - if someone is willing to be charitable to you so you can get the care you need.

I don't want to delay taking a sick child to the doctor until I can round up the necessary charity to pay the bill.

I work, I deserve the same access to health care as everyone else. I deserve to have my kids hold up their heads high knowing that the work of their parents pays for their health care. If I had to rely on charity, this would shame my children. The people calling for charity are not very charitable people.

I once worked for a company that hired us through a subcontractor so they wouldn't have to pay health care benefits. This same company managed to find the money to get a ball stadium named after them and they managed to pay their top execs all several million dollars per year.

If this passes, I feel the people still working for this company already do earn their own health care, they just aren't getting their share, their just due.

Question for "Patriot" types? | 10:43 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

I have a question for the "law and order and amnesty" people.

When you get a ticket for speeding, and are given a ticket you have to pay, and are also allowed to then to on to your destination,

Are you then getting amnesty?

If not, then why if these people are allowed to stay after paying a fine, do you call this amnesty?

@Wilkey | 11:05 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

I would like to know the source of your data. I've seen data to contradict yours.

College tuition in CA used to be one of the lowest in the nation. Unfortunately, it has increased significantly and is now more on par with the rest of the nation.

True, 1st generation immigrant's children don't have the college attendance rates as other groups.

Listening to teachers' who've taught in the inner cities I hear funding continues to be a significant problem as well as large class sizes. Children growing up in poverty have many, many challenges.
I recommend you watch academny award winning "I Am a Promise, the Children of Stanton Elementary."

Silva | 11:49 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

To not define legal from illegally is a mistake. If the Deseret News is going to write an article on immigrant children, that come here, then do it.

If your going to write an article about the children of parents who are citizens of another country, then do it.

But trying to confuse the readers by mixing statistics and facts between two different groups helps no one.

RL | 8:23 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009

A key point MOST of the racist conservatives missed was that 100,000 of the 127,000 (~80%) children of immigrants mentioned in the article ARE AMERICANS!!!

Time to wake-up and get over your selfish greedy selves.

Hyocrites!

Wilkey | 9:12 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009

** "A key point MOST of the racist conservatives missed was that 100,000 of the 127,000 (~80%) children of immigrants mentioned in the article ARE AMERICANS!!!" **

Many/most are only citizens because of the current (mis)interpretation of the 14th Amendment. Presently we grant automatic citzenship to the children of people here illegally. Sure these children may be citizens, but if we were enforcing our laws they would not have been born here.

I'm glad you're so certain we're all a bunch of racists.

** "I would like to know the source of your data. I've seen data to contradict yours." **

It's from a Time story on California, within the last month or so. As for college attendance rates/high school grad rates, the 1st generation children actually have the highest rates. They don't get better after that. Go t the Center for Immigration Studies for more on that. And regarding funding and large class sizes? They're bad because illegal immigrants contribute almost nothing to the tax base compared to the services they use. California and Utah both have very high tax rates, but the situation has gotten worse despite it.

response to a "patriot" | 11:11 a.m. Nov. 9, 2009

re tenx | 10:31 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009

True, one can donate to relief agencies, but ...

One can also work to pass laws which will make life fair to all, not just the fortunate among us who would bet all the benefits anyway.

Lets do both.

MikeH | 12:29 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

Utah's lawmakers have quoted the number of people here illegally at 150,000 to 250,000 people. That's a lot more than the 27,000 quoted in the article from a figure taken by the census.

We have been told many times that the immigration status is not asked in a census, so those numbers are a guess, and a poor one at that.

Children and parents that are citizens of another country face much different problems from those here as US citizens. They should not be combined for any article or study.

Michael | 9:19 p.m. Nov. 9, 2009

I am a Boy Scout. I used to live in Mexico. I met lots of nice people there. I'm worried that sometimes in this country people do not treat immigrants nice. They make fun of them or say bad things about them. This story reminds me of this problem. Most immigrants are good people who are trying to make their lives better. We need to treat them right and not be mean. I know a lot of people want government to make it tough for immigrants. I don't have the answer of what to do, but whatever else we do, we need to always treat people with respect and kindness, especially if they are just children. We're all the same.

Ace | 9:29 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

The US does not have an official language. Demographic changes including native birthrates mean that hispanics will constitute the majority of Americans no later than 2050. While many of them speak English as their native language a significant number will speak only Spanish. Across the southwest there are multi-generational families of native born Americans who speak limited English. My suggestion is for our nation to accept the reality of the situation and mandate Spanish AND English classes for all students. The Canadians have done well with a dual-language society. They beat the US in nearly every measure of quality of life (see the Human Development Index). They even have a greater percentage of immigrants in their population.

By the way, I thought I'd point out that illegal aliens make up only a miniscule percent of the US population. Even at the highest estimates (easy to find on the web) illegals make up less than 4% of the population. Could they really be causing that much damage to the health care system, education system and the economy as a whole? If so, I'd say we learn a thing or two from them about power and influence!

Ironic | 10:01 a.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Democrats talk big about charity, but did you know that Republicans actually donate more to charity than Democrats.....and by a huge margin?

Maybe if we could get the Democrats to shut up long enough to write a check and catch up to Republicans, perhaps these children the Lunatic Lefties are so concerned about might actually get the help they need....or would you Democrats rather do what you do best.....collect welfare!

To:Ironic | 4:05 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Bitter, nasty and hateful. I guess that's what Republicans to best.

Re:Re | 4:39 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

Bitter hateful nasty.....but donate to charity....just one step above a liberal!

Questions no one will answer | 5:04 p.m. Nov. 10, 2009

1) If these people work, doing jobs that need doing, contributing to our economy, then how is it they are getting "free" health care?

2) If a someone can get a speeding ticket, and they have to pay a fine, but are not forced to go back to where they started from, why is this not amnesty, but allowing these immigrants to pay a fine and not forcing them to go back to where they started from from is anmesty?

some info | 10:43 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

i work with some of these children (african refugees, latinos, asian) not all of them are illegal. they don't have the rights as an average american child. for example, these kids aren't allowed to use the schoolbus, they have to use public transportation which is expensive.

these kids learn english well enough. it's their parents who don't learn the language.

@Wilkey | 10:53 a.m. Nov. 11, 2009

"They don't value education as much as American children do"

.... I don't think you have met these kids in person. They are anxious to learn. In fact I tutor a few and there are so many more who want me to help them with school, it's overwhelming because there are just so many of them. They are aware that they need education.

Page:
1
2
Next >

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.