Reader comments
Educators grapple with funding, test issues
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tt | 4:07 p.m. Nov. 6, 2009
Brian Allen needs to understand that charter schools and public schools have
never been treated fairly. Charter schools have always been given preferential
treatment. New public schools are required to take end of level tests
immediately the first year, while charter schools are given an automatic two
year exemption. Does that sound fair to you Brian?
What Charters? | 5:51 p.m. Nov. 6, 2009
What "dozen" Charters were on the chopping block? Isn't that the
key question?
If they were outstanding schools (and many Charters are) then I am thankful their funding will not be cut. They should be rewarded for their phenomenal work!
If they were horrible schools (I personally know of one Charter that is) and they are being artificially kept alive on life support by one of these Charter Development Companies (or a member of the legislature that has a vested interest in Charters) then they deserve to be closed.
BTW: My opinion is the same for a traditional public school. I support ALL amazing schools (traditional, charters, private, home).
If they were outstanding schools (and many Charters are) then I am thankful their funding will not be cut. They should be rewarded for their phenomenal work!
If they were horrible schools (I personally know of one Charter that is) and they are being artificially kept alive on life support by one of these Charter Development Companies (or a member of the legislature that has a vested interest in Charters) then they deserve to be closed.
BTW: My opinion is the same for a traditional public school. I support ALL amazing schools (traditional, charters, private, home).
Was Never Going To Happen | 11:19 p.m. Nov. 6, 2009
A quick civics lesson: The state board doesn't set funding, the legislature
does. The state's board recommendation to not fund growth was never going
to happen. The legislators I mentioned it to laughed at the idea. Even large
districts didn't want it because it wouldn't fund their growth either.
For instance, Davis is growing by 6% next year. Which would they prefer: a 2%
cut or not get funded for their new 6%?
Comments continue below
Charters test in year 1 | 11:36 p.m. Nov. 6, 2009
Charter schools are not give a 2 year exemption on state testing. I am unsure
why that was written by tt, but it is wrong.
Charter schools are required to administer the state tests the first year of operation and their results are published just as are the results of all public schools.
I am grateful it seems as if the State School Board is "in the game" this year by presenting a realistic budget to the legislature.
I am disappointed that Mr. Burningham continues to appear to want to play the games of past years that have gotten us into an adversarial position with the Legislature. Maybe that's not his intention, but I'd like to better understand his no vote. The article could have been more clear on that.
It is nice to see the State Board making an honest attempt to work with the Legislature to make this tough budget year as easy as possible for those of us running schools.
Charter schools are required to administer the state tests the first year of operation and their results are published just as are the results of all public schools.
I am grateful it seems as if the State School Board is "in the game" this year by presenting a realistic budget to the legislature.
I am disappointed that Mr. Burningham continues to appear to want to play the games of past years that have gotten us into an adversarial position with the Legislature. Maybe that's not his intention, but I'd like to better understand his no vote. The article could have been more clear on that.
It is nice to see the State Board making an honest attempt to work with the Legislature to make this tough budget year as easy as possible for those of us running schools.
Dump illegal anchors | 3:38 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
If the board of education would obey our state constitution and dump all illegal
anchors out of the education system they could reap billions of dollars in
windfall savings. Don't pester the american citizens for their financial
problems while illegally letting the anchor children of illegals in our schools
and depleting and robbing the children of American citizens of their tax funds
for education.
The financial problems can be traced directly to the BOE's own negligence and illegal waste of taxes as they give the rights of americans to illegal foreign nationals.
The financial problems can be traced directly to the BOE's own negligence and illegal waste of taxes as they give the rights of americans to illegal foreign nationals.
Eye Dee Ten Tee | 5:35 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Give me a break. School spending has far outpaced inflation for the last 30
years, and the quality is much worse. Nowdays, kids think John Adams is a brand
of beer, Ethan Allen is furniture, and Yeats is what makes bread rise. They also
have grief counselors to whine to when their Pizza Hut lunch didn't have
enough pepperoni.
Yeah, right.. | 6:20 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Does anyone else see the insensitive bias in Brian Allen's comment after
the details of where the budget cuts come from??? He wants
"everyone...treated equally" but is willing to take money from others
who need it. It's not going to feel equal to each of these students:
"...educators spread cutbacks among a number of other programs, such as English language learner literacy centers, elementary school reading improvement and high-ability student initiatives.
State Charter School Board Chairman Brian Allen seemed pleased...
"We just think everyone in education should be treated equally," he said. "It looks like this will likely accomplish that goal."
"...educators spread cutbacks among a number of other programs, such as English language learner literacy centers, elementary school reading improvement and high-ability student initiatives.
State Charter School Board Chairman Brian Allen seemed pleased...
"We just think everyone in education should be treated equally," he said. "It looks like this will likely accomplish that goal."
Equal? | 7:02 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Quote from Brian Allen: "We just think everyone in education should be
treated equally"
Be careful what you wish for Mr. Allen. The grass may appear to be greener over on the traditional public school side but appearances can be deceiving.
The public will remember that you said this the next time a "special circumstance" comes up with Charter schools.
Be careful what you wish for Mr. Allen. The grass may appear to be greener over on the traditional public school side but appearances can be deceiving.
The public will remember that you said this the next time a "special circumstance" comes up with Charter schools.
Fred | 8:07 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Do you think transportation will come in with an initial budget proposal with
over 2% cut from last year? How about higher education do you think they will
request a 2% cut. This will be the starting place for the legislature to make
cuts, so education will take a lot more than a 2% cut.
Anonymous | 8:44 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Charter schools are just duplicating services already offered and costing the
taxpayer double the money.
Charters are an experiment that has run its course. They aren't producing better results for the most part. Now we are funding two school buildings instead of one. Two principals instead of one. Two secretaries instead of one.
Send my taxes back to the real schools please.
Charters are an experiment that has run its course. They aren't producing better results for the most part. Now we are funding two school buildings instead of one. Two principals instead of one. Two secretaries instead of one.
Send my taxes back to the real schools please.
Kids shafted again | 8:47 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Even in a bad economy schools should not take the brunt of a state's budget
cuts as Utah did last year and will do again this year. Charter or regular
public schools it doesn't matter, they are both getting the shaft from our
legislators. Utah has always been under-funded and now it is getting even worse.
It will take more than 10 years to recover from the cuts that are happening
now.
I have believed for a while now that many state congressmen want to get rid of "the black hole" of public education and privatize all schools. Looks like that is what they are up to with all these cuts to education.
BTW, There was a 16% cut last year that was backfilled with Obama stimulus money. THe same is projected for this year. What happens when the Obama money is gone? Utah will then have around a 20+% cut from two years ago. Our kids are going to suffer because of our short-sighted politicians.
I have believed for a while now that many state congressmen want to get rid of "the black hole" of public education and privatize all schools. Looks like that is what they are up to with all these cuts to education.
BTW, There was a 16% cut last year that was backfilled with Obama stimulus money. THe same is projected for this year. What happens when the Obama money is gone? Utah will then have around a 20+% cut from two years ago. Our kids are going to suffer because of our short-sighted politicians.
educrat | 9:30 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
THe 12-18 schools were the ones who did not have a healthy reserve of cash.
Most Charters are saving towards purchasing their buildings so in essence have a
rainy day fund.
It was incorrect to announce the orignial 18 percent cut on Charter schools, while not cutting back the same on Districts. They already are working with significantly less money (about 500 per student). The planned cut in their primary funding was unintentionally devastating. I am glad the board relooked at the formula and found something more equitable.
tt,
Your baseless lying should never have got passed the board censors. All public schools (Charters are public schools) take the same state mandated tests.
It was incorrect to announce the orignial 18 percent cut on Charter schools, while not cutting back the same on Districts. They already are working with significantly less money (about 500 per student). The planned cut in their primary funding was unintentionally devastating. I am glad the board relooked at the formula and found something more equitable.
tt,
Your baseless lying should never have got passed the board censors. All public schools (Charters are public schools) take the same state mandated tests.
@tt | 9:39 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Quit dissing on my man, Brian Allen. He is right and you are wrong. Deal with
it!
@8:44am | 2:10 p.m. Nov. 7, 2009
And what happens to the kids in those charters if they have to close?
They'll be back in the regular public schools - which are already
overcrowded. Actual classroom numbers are much higher than the reported
numbers, because they count every possible employee, instead of actual teachers
vs. students.
Yes, they have their own principals and secretaries - and if they didn't exist, the school districts would have needed to build more schools - it's not like the additional classrooms just pop up out of thin air on the existing campuses.
Charters take some of the pressure off the school districts. And they keep parents a lot happier, when they can choose a school that fits their child and family better, for whatever reason.
Yes, they have their own principals and secretaries - and if they didn't exist, the school districts would have needed to build more schools - it's not like the additional classrooms just pop up out of thin air on the existing campuses.
Charters take some of the pressure off the school districts. And they keep parents a lot happier, when they can choose a school that fits their child and family better, for whatever reason.
mom of 6 | 3:32 p.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Funding cuts in any school situation are extremely upsetting.
I have twin first graders in a public school. They have 33 students in their class. There are 2 special education (down syndrom and another student with significantly reduced cognative abilities) in the classroom. There is one permanent aid for the down syndrom child.
I regularly volunteer in the classroom on various days and at various times.
I applaud my children's teacher!!!!! If I had the my own funding, however, my two children WOULD NOT ATTEND ANY PUBLIC SCHOOL. Over crowding, and pacing them forward according to so-called "national standards" without regards to the honest development of the child are absolutely intolerable.
The State of Utah and the nation need to look at different education models from each other and around the world. Much of the world educates better, in less time and with less so-called "resources" than what we have. There should NEVER be more than 20 in the younger grades. EVER!!!
Charter schools should "compete" in the real world with our other schools.
I have twin first graders in a public school. They have 33 students in their class. There are 2 special education (down syndrom and another student with significantly reduced cognative abilities) in the classroom. There is one permanent aid for the down syndrom child.
I regularly volunteer in the classroom on various days and at various times.
I applaud my children's teacher!!!!! If I had the my own funding, however, my two children WOULD NOT ATTEND ANY PUBLIC SCHOOL. Over crowding, and pacing them forward according to so-called "national standards" without regards to the honest development of the child are absolutely intolerable.
The State of Utah and the nation need to look at different education models from each other and around the world. Much of the world educates better, in less time and with less so-called "resources" than what we have. There should NEVER be more than 20 in the younger grades. EVER!!!
Charter schools should "compete" in the real world with our other schools.
Joel Wright | 3:44 p.m. Nov. 7, 2009
Evidence is not only growing that charter schools are succeeding, but also that
the schools competing with charter schools improve as well. From this
week's Wall Street Journal:
"Stanford economist Caroline Hoxby recently found that poor urban children who attend a charter school from kindergarten through 8th grade can close the learning gap with affluent suburban kids by 86% in reading and 66% in math. And now Marcus Winters, who follows education for the Manhattan Institute, has released a paper showing that even students who don't attend a charter school benefit academically when their public school is exposed to charter competition.
Mr. Winters focuses on New York City public school students in grades 3 through 8. "For every one percent of a public school's students who leave for a charter," concludes Mr. Winters, "reading proficiency among those who remain increases by about 0.02 standard deviations, a small but not insignificant number, in view of the widely held suspicion that the impact on local public schools . . . would be negative." It tuns out that traditional public schools respond to competition in a way that benefits their students.
Imagine that. Competition works."
"Stanford economist Caroline Hoxby recently found that poor urban children who attend a charter school from kindergarten through 8th grade can close the learning gap with affluent suburban kids by 86% in reading and 66% in math. And now Marcus Winters, who follows education for the Manhattan Institute, has released a paper showing that even students who don't attend a charter school benefit academically when their public school is exposed to charter competition.
Mr. Winters focuses on New York City public school students in grades 3 through 8. "For every one percent of a public school's students who leave for a charter," concludes Mr. Winters, "reading proficiency among those who remain increases by about 0.02 standard deviations, a small but not insignificant number, in view of the widely held suspicion that the impact on local public schools . . . would be negative." It tuns out that traditional public schools respond to competition in a way that benefits their students.
Imagine that. Competition works."
Change of Focus | 4:41 p.m. Nov. 7, 2009
To: Joel Wright
Once again, you are lumping ALL Charters together. Stop it!!! It is not helping the Charter cause.
Charters are no longer the new kid on the block. Data on the "success" of the Charter movement as a whole is no longer impressive or relevant. Charters are here to stay--we get it and we support it.
What IS impressive and relevant is the data on INDIVIDUAL schools. Many Charters in Utah are absolutely amazing according to sound data. A few, however, are absolutely dismal (when looking at the data) and should be closed down immediately.
The Charter movement is at a crossroads. Charter proponents need to change focus. Promoting the movement as a whole has become ineffective because of the few poor performing Charters. The focus should now shift to the individual Charters and the amazing successes many are achieving.
Once again, you are lumping ALL Charters together. Stop it!!! It is not helping the Charter cause.
Charters are no longer the new kid on the block. Data on the "success" of the Charter movement as a whole is no longer impressive or relevant. Charters are here to stay--we get it and we support it.
What IS impressive and relevant is the data on INDIVIDUAL schools. Many Charters in Utah are absolutely amazing according to sound data. A few, however, are absolutely dismal (when looking at the data) and should be closed down immediately.
The Charter movement is at a crossroads. Charter proponents need to change focus. Promoting the movement as a whole has become ineffective because of the few poor performing Charters. The focus should now shift to the individual Charters and the amazing successes many are achieving.
Utah Dem | 2:27 p.m. Nov. 8, 2009
Leave the funding alone for traditional public and charter schools - let's
take a close look at the Utah State Office of Education. How many people work
there? What does the USOE cost taxpayers? Are all of these people needed?
Are all of these duties performed by USOE needed?
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