Deseret News | House Democrats clear the way for health-care vote

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House Democrats clear the way for health-care vote

Cosmo | 11:15 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Keep looking up Harry, it is good practice for when you are in the warm place below, and wishing you were somewhere else. Oh, is that Nancy behind you, perfect!

Randall | 11:19 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009

I hope it gets put off till next year! Congress is deaf - Americans do not want socialized medicine. We want reform, like buying insurance anywhere in the country, like tort reform so doctors do not have to order useless tests to protect themselves from lawsuits. Too bad the news media were too enamored to ask what kind of change these people wanted to bring the country.

Worst Bill Ever | 12:24 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

It's interesting that the Wall Street Journal earlier this week branded the Pelosi Bill as one that "...may well be the worst piece of post-New Deal legislation ever introduced." The article went on to state "Critics will say we are exaggerating, but we believe it is no stretch to say that Mrs. Pelosi's handiwork ranks with the Smoot-Hawley tariff and FDR's National Industrial Recovery Act as among the worst bills Congress has ever seriously contemplated."

The lengthy article (much shorter than 1,990 pages of the actual Bill) goes on to explicitly "make its case" in significant detail. The article (Worst Bill Ever, 11/01/09) is a good description of the Bill's ramifications for anyone who is not ideologically blinded.

Comments continue below

Chris B. | 1:51 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

I work hard so Obama voters dont' have to, with health care being a perfect example. Socialism here we come.

David Henze | 2:17 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

This bill represents all that is wrong in Washington DC.

Nancy is nuts! | 2:30 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Pelosi - what a piece of work! Oh yes, I'm sure the blue dog House Democrats are just biting at the bit to vote on this ugly Obama-Care monstrosity as soon as possible especially after they just witnessed their fellow democratic chums in Virgina and New Jersey go down in flames at the polls. A BIG LOUD WARNING SHOT was fired at the democrats that people are REJECTING Obama's policies and what was Obama doing ? Watching the Chicago Bulls game on TV! Apparently Nancy is going deaf in her old age because she also missed hearing the warning shot fired last night. The Blue Dogs all know now (if they didn't before) that if they follow Obama they will do it at the risk of losing their job in 2010. Somebody tell Nancy!!

Go ahead - make my day!! | 2:33 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

So Blue Dog dems - go ahead and vote yes for Obama-care and then see what happens to you in 2010 at the polls. A hint - New Jersey and Virginia both have NEW GOP governors!!!

Brain | 2:38 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

It's a broken system that needs to be changed. If the change is imperfect, it's still better than the status quo. I want nationalized healthcare, but almost any move from where we are would be progress.

Re Chris B. @ 1:51 PM | 2:41 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Chris,

I work hard, too, but I don't whine about it.

Do you similarly whine about your taxes supporting schools, hospitals, police officers, firefighters, road construction, airports, park rangers, etc.?

You're just fine with the US spending twice as much money per person on health care than any other nation, yet ranking 37th in the world in terms of overall health of its citizens?

You're just fine with 40+ million Americans living without health insurance?

You've got no problems with your health insurance company making billions in profits yet denying coverage to people for bizarre and indefensible reasons?

"Socialism here we come."

???

You don't know what you're talking about.

MormonDem | 2:50 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Educate yourselves before you post your knee-jerk partisan comments, folks.

Chris B., I work just as hard as you do, and pay my taxes -- heck I might even sit next to you in church! Silly, uninformed stereotypes like yours are precisely why the GOP is floundering right now.

Worst bill ever -- Really? The Wall Street Journal published a piece critical of legislation that would hold an industry's feet to the fire? Get out!

Randall -- over 60% of Americans want a public option, and that number goes above 70% if it's available only contingent on income. Tort reform is a tiny, tiny part of health care costs -- and, in fact, states that have introduced have seen none of the promised cost reductions. And if you have cross-state systems, you're going to see exactly what we see in the corporate sector today: companies setting up shop in the states with the flimsiest laws and weakest oversight, meaning more money wasted on fraud.

Fishy, Fishy | 2:53 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

One day after a trouncing of democratic candidates in VA and CT, and the House Dems announce they are ready to vote. This bill could easily be defeated this week.

If not, you know that some big-money deals were struck between moderate dems and the leadership. Why just yesterday, the most contentious issue of all, abortion, was a topic of hot debate. Maybe leadership caved on this one, and felt the sooner, the better, for a vote.

WinSum | 3:13 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Democratic leadership at all levels is the most pathetic....ever...! Republicans have not been much better but at least profess some ethics / standards / morals.

Barak, Harry, Nancy, Barney,.....sickening, sickening, sickening.....spend, spend, spend, tax, tax, tax, lie, lie, lie......God Help Us All....!

Appears to be a planned attempt to bankrupt this nation so they can enslave all their patheitic dependents.....

@no brain | 3:16 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

It doesn't take alot of brains to figure out that just moving in any direction is better than what we have right now. Please use your brain and understand that giving away free choice won't make you healthier.
Don't break the system to say you have done something. The marxists in Washington are not in your corner. They are not on your side. They are not nice.
Why aren't all the sheeple Mormons voting for Harry Reid Health Care? I thought they all just did what they were told? Guess not.

re:re:Chris B. @ 1:51 PM | 3:23 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

The House Bill doesn't cover all Americans - in fact it leaves out some 30 million. The House Bill will drive health care cost up not down. The House Bill will force over 60% off their current insurance and onto the watered down gov plan. So if you have a nice Blue Cross Blue Shield plan from your employer that plan will eventually be dropped by your employer due to competition with the fed gov. The House Bill rations care (better get that hip replacement before age 60). The House Bill guts Medicare Plus which is the life blood of most seniors. The House Bill forces coverage of abortion. The House Bill bill covers illegals. The House Bill will drive the federal deficit through the clouds and cause taxes to be raised. Pelosi has already admitted to tax increases coming. The Wall Street Journal said yesterday that this House Bill was one of the worst pieces of legislation ever produced from the House.

.... so I ask you ...do you still want it????

Its the economy stupid!!! | 3:35 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Obama hasn't registered this phrase yet - "its the economy stupid". Yes it's the economy that has been forgotten in all of this irrational push to pass Obama-care. Never mind the fact that unemployment is 10% and rising or the fact that the credit market is virtually frozen again or the fact that no body is hiring. What is even worse - THERE ARE TAX INCREASES COMING PEOPLE TO BUSINESS AND INDIVIUALS if Obama - care passes. Those tax increases ought to do wonders to an already suffering business environment. The good people of Virgina and New Jersey who were pro-Obama in 08 showed their anger at Obama's policies by sweeping the dem's out of power last night. County by county who were heavy democrat in 08 reversed to republican last night. So, Obama better shut off the Bulls game and pay attention to his country or he and his fellow dem's will suffer the same fate in 2010 and 2012!!!

Anonymous | 3:49 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Go for it. We have one more democrat in congress. Thanks Rush and Sarah, we could have never done it without you!

Lindy | 4:04 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

To Mormon Dem, where are you getting your statistics? I have heard just the opposite and seen polls that suggest most Americans do not want the public option.

I would like to "educate myself" so please cite your sources for statistics. By the way, I live in a heavily democratic state and the majority of information and opinions I come across is that few are happy about national health care! You would think that the people in this "blue" region would be in agreement with this political ideal!

xscribe | 4:28 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Oh, what fickle people Americans are. Apparently President Obama was supposed to turn this country around in the 10 short months he's been in office, this after inheriting the worst economic crisis since the great depression. Even Bush was on board with this. Do you think McCain and Palin would not have been? What exactly would be different now, only 10 months later? Obviously, if people are turning from Obama in droves, they are people who expect miracles and overnight changes. One poster says "God help us." By that logic, wouldn't it stand to reason that somehow God got us to this point in the first place?

To MormonDem | 4:39 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

You work hard AND voted for Obama? That doesn't make any sense. Boy are you in for a shock. Talking about uneducated.

MormonRepublican | 4:56 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Independence Day - 1/23/2013
Socialism will be over

Brain | 5:14 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Help me understand the logic. Paying health insurance companies 30% off the top and allowing them to deny coverage when clients get sick is what you want? Giving insurance companies monopolies so they can raise rates at will and choose only the healthiest clients is what you want? The elections yesterday were a warning. If congress doesn't get this right, we will replace them in 2010 and 2012. They had better get to work in earnest on health reform.

MormonDem | 5:32 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Lindy @ 4:04,

Unfortunately, links aren't allowed on this board. But if you do a search for the phrase 'public option polls' you'll find plenty. Just because the tea partiers shout the loudest at town hall meetings, that doesn't mean that they get more votes.

And I'm baffled by people claiming that the governor's races in VA and NJ (not CT, as Fishy Fishy said) is a referendum on health care or Obama. In exit polls in both states, even though Republicans won, Obama enjoyed approval ratings over 50%.

Furthermore, governers don't vote on the health care bill. Congressmen do. And Democrats picked up two more congressman yesterday, both of whom favor the health care bill. In fact, one of the democrats we picked up yesterday won in NY-23, a district that Republicans have controlled since the Civil War.

Meanwhile, the Republicans introduced their pathetic plan yesterday, which doesn't NOTHING to reduce the number of uninsured, reduce waste, or control costs. And when they fell under sharp criticism for it from all sides, Boehner backpedaled and said "Um, wait, that was just the rough draft! It's not done yet!" Pathetic.

Thank the seniors | 5:45 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

...they are the ones who are paying for it. And AARP is letting it happen.

xscribe | 6:46 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

@MormonRepublican: Please name us one - I'll say it again, one - one socialist program that President Obama has put into place that was not there before he was president. I dare you. Bet you can't do it. You don't even know what socialism is.

Who does your work benefit? | 8:07 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Just a quick response to those who continually propose that Obama is about you working hard so others do not have to. Right now, if you work hard for a major employer, you probably work hard so the firm's officers and shareholders can get rich while you probably barely earn enough to keep you from revolting. Stop thinking that you are part of the priveledged. You are just a few paychecks away from homeless, if you're like so many Americans.

Lindy | 8:29 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

To Mormon Dem

I have searched and still can't find anything that gives the 60% and 70% figures you were posting. As someone who is interested in seeking truth, I have to ask for some back up when someone publishes such specific stats.

Since you can't provide a reasonable source, it makes me question where those numbers came from, perhaps you are just repeating something you heard or perhaps you made the figures up.

kfb | 10:12 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

I will help Mormon dem out here on the source. The New York times did a survey and found that 60% favored a public option. The catch was that they surveyed Dems 2-1. The other thing is that they favored it by 60% if it was FREE. When these same people (2-1 democrats) were told that the cost would be the same as convention insurance, the number dropped to around 40% favorability. You need to read the survey mechanics or you miss the obvious bias in most surveys.

Poll Results | 10:27 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Re: Lindy | 8:29 pm

Mormon Dem is just blowing smoke thinking we will not check out his numbers. Wherever he is getting his information, it is not from the major polls, Gallup, Pew, Rasmussen, etc. All of the major polls are usually within 3-5 points of each other. The following is from the latest Rasmussen poll on November 2nd:

Only 42% now favor the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s down from 45% one week ago but unchanged from two weeks ago.

Fifty-four percent (54%) now oppose the legislative effort, up three points since last week.
Seventy-three percent (73%) of liberals support the plan, but just 18% of conservatives agree.
Only 23% of all voters Strongly Support the plan while nearly twice as many (44%) are Strongly Opposed.

As has been the case for months, Democrats favor the plan while Republicans and voters not affiliated with either major party are opposed. The latest numbers show support from 69% of those in the president’s party. The plan is opposed by 80% of Republicans and (48%) of unaffiliated voters.

Brian | 10:30 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

I notice that this disaster isn't scheduled to kick in until after Obama makes his next run for the presidency. That's actually true of many of the proposals of the president. The true weight won't be felt until after he has made it in for his second term. That promise to not raise taxes on anyone making less then $250,000 per year is long forgotten now.

MormonDem | 10:47 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Lindy, again, I can't post links. But I just did a Google search for the phrase -tracking poll public option- and the first two results both relate to an ABC/WP poll from late October with support for the public option at 57%, and that rises to 76% if the public option is available only to those who cannot qualify for insurance otherwise. A CBS/NYT poll from a couple of weeks before that had support at 65%. A more recent CNN poll put support at 61% Even the surveys with the wording most slanted against the public option, like the recent WSJ poll, still show those in favor ahead of those opposed (48% to 42%).

The numbers vary somewhat from poll to poll, depending on how the question is asked. But in virtually every case for the last several months, a solid majority.

MormonDem | 11:57 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Poll Results | 10:27 p.m.,

You're playing fast and loose with the numbers here. We're talking about two very, very different numbers. All along I've been talking about support for the public option. Then you trot out completely different numbers as if we're talking about the same thing.

The biggest problem with your use of this "evidence" is that Rasmussen doesn't even talk about what things people want to see in healthcare reform, like the public option, it asks about "Obama's and the Democrats' plan." In other words, the poll is about taking sides in a partisan contest rather than determining what kinds of reforms people would like to see. It's rather telling, don't you think, that if you explain the public option as found in the current plan, without labeling it according to party, lots of conservatives are on board, but if you say "Obama" in the question, they suddenly remember what Beck told them and change their minds.

The second problem with your numbers is that there are many, many liberals who are dissatisfied with the current plan because the public option isn't strong enough for them.

Re: MormonDem | 11:57p | 12:54 a.m. Nov. 5, 2009

Please note the Rasmussen numbers are for the TOTAL proposed health bill and it includes the Public Option, which is only one part of the total bill — all 1990 pages on the House side. My posting is not my words — they are an exact cut and paste from the Rasmussen Report.

For example it states "Only 42% now favor the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats." That's 42% of ALL voters - Republican, Democrat, Independent, Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian, etc. Please note that Rasmussen states it is for the "...health care plan proposed by President Obama and the Congressional Democrats." That means the total bill including the public option.

You need to quit trying to twist the pollster's words to fit your viewpoint. You may make the argument that a majority may support the public option, but that is not the whole bill. It is short-sighted for you to attempt to make your case for health care reform on just one piece of the legislation. We're not going to "buy it," and I'm trying to be objective about healthcare reform. We need it, but not this version coming out of the Congress.

Why I favor Obamacare | 1:58 a.m. Nov. 5, 2009

The reasons are simple:
#1: Obama will force you to pay for my healthcare.
#2: I get something for nothing at other people's expense: I win, you lose!
#3: I can be lazy, irrepsonsible and greedy.
#4: I deserve it because you cheated to get ahead of me in the game of life!
#5: While I was supposed to be working, preparing,learning to earn a good living, I partied, played and made horrible choices, now I can escape my bad behavior.
Thanks Obama, I love you thisssssss much!

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