Reader comments
Stakes are high in Maine's vote on same-sex marriage
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Henry | 8:14 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
I hope for the good of the country that Maine does the right thing and votes no
to same sex marriage. I DO NOT believe gay people are horrible people to be
hated by society, but I also believe that acceptance of homosexuality is a step
toward the downfall of the country.
Anonymous | 8:29 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
I hope that they repeal it.
Anonymous | 9:13 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
True conservatives would leave spousal choice to individuals, NOT to the
government.
Of course there haven't been any true conservatives since Barry Goldwater.
Of course there haven't been any true conservatives since Barry Goldwater.
Comments continue below
@ Henry | 9:23 p.m. Nov. 2, 2009
I, too, hope the voters of Maine do the right thing. That, however, is as far
as we go in agreement. In my opinion the right thing is to uphold the rights of
same-sex couples to marry.
JSM | 12:21 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
People of Maine, they might threaten, attack, and fire you, if you disagree with
them, but please, please, do what you know is right. I am so thankful to those
in CA who had the courage to come out in favor of preventing legal enforcement
of homosexuality. I have homosexual family members that I love and admire very
much, and they are free to practice homosexuality already, but by voting for 08
you may have saved their lives, and you certainly saved their mother from a
broken heart. Marriage legally prevents them from leaving this lifestyle if they
choose to do so. Many studies have shown that homosexuality is unhealthy, none I
know of show that polygamy is unhealthy, yet America has the sense to prevent
the consenting adult polygamist from legally enforcing their relationships,
which we feel are unhealthy. We owe the same consideration to homosexuals. If we
love them, we will prevent them from enforcing it.
I think homosexuals should have visitation rights, insurance, etc, but there is no reason for them to be married. Talk to the hospitals, etc.
Please don't legally enforce homosexuality.
I think homosexuals should have visitation rights, insurance, etc, but there is no reason for them to be married. Talk to the hospitals, etc.
Please don't legally enforce homosexuality.
ERB | 3:39 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
This comment is for those of the LDS faith…what has the Lord warned us
would happen when the majority of the people of the land chose evil over good?
We indeed live in a time when evil is called good and good is called evil. We
seem to be unable to make moral choices any longer. And that will effect every
aspect of our society. If we accept immorality as good we no longer have the
ability to make laws that help our country. Instead we make laws that hurt and
enslaves its citizens. Corruption is entrenched in all aspects of life from
politics to business to home life. Where will you stand?
CC | 7:40 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
To ERB...I think I will stand for free agency, and the policy of teaching
correct principles and letting people then govern themselves. Is same sex
marriage going to threaten your marriage? Will it impact your marriage? I really
do want to be enlightened on how people view this as a threat to society. Do you
think it will increase homosexuality? I'm really not sure I understand why
so many LDS people view this as the beginning of the end. I can see how it would
change property ownership, legal rights, inheritance, etc., but that is about
it. This is just the opinion of one heterosexual LDS married man.....
to: @ henry | 8:35 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
there is where you are wrong. gays do have the right to marry. marriage is
defined as man and woman. whether one or both of them are gay is irrelevant. are
gays inferior citizens? no they are not, they are equals. are their
relationships equal to a man and a woman? no they are not. allow me to explain.
the purpose of marriage is to have children. a gay couple cannot. yes, you will
say that there are heterosexual couples who don't have children or
don't want to but there is an important differance: a heterosexual couple
who doesn't have children don't have any by choice or circumstance,
not a natural boundary in the relationship. in other wirds, the perfect man and
the perfect woman can procreate. two perfect men or two perfect women cannot.
that is why as individuals, homosexuals ARE equal and there is no need to pass
any other laws to insure this. however, a homosexualcouple's relationship,
is NOT equal to marriage between a man and a woman. it is as simple as that and
these are undisputible facts.
Re: henry | 9:10 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
My problem with homosexuals marrying is that no one has been given the right or
responsibility to redefine marriage. Throughout the history of mankind,
marriage has always been between a man and woman. Who can possibly change that
except He who defined it in the first place? Having said that, it seems
apparent that homosexuals certainly would be entitled to the same rights
accorded to all Americans under the Constitution. Civil rights, civil unions
yes, but marriages, no to homosexuals.
Reader from California | 10:02 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
CC: The issue does affect my marriage and family.The thinking of proponents of
prop 8 focuses on our children and grandchildren. I look at the results of
same-sex marriage in Massachusetts, Canada, Great Britain, and see those that
people of faith who believe this is a moral (not civil rights) issue, being
systematically oppressed.I remind everyone that in Massachusetts the courts have
decided it is in the best interests of society to provide indoctrination on gay
marriage to grade schoolers. the same court affirms that notification to parents
of such indoctrination is not in the best interests of children.
I don't fear gays or the gay lifestyle, I only fear that my religious, free speech, parental and civil rights will diminish by allowing the redefinition of marriage. I can love my gay neighbor and fight to allow him/her equal rights under a civil union, but can see clearly the long term damage to society that a redefinition of traditional marriage will cause. The 'why do you care' or 'how does it hurt you'? question takes very little careful thought or research to answer.
I don't fear gays or the gay lifestyle, I only fear that my religious, free speech, parental and civil rights will diminish by allowing the redefinition of marriage. I can love my gay neighbor and fight to allow him/her equal rights under a civil union, but can see clearly the long term damage to society that a redefinition of traditional marriage will cause. The 'why do you care' or 'how does it hurt you'? question takes very little careful thought or research to answer.
Jeff | 11:56 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Oh, it's all about the children!!! Give me a break.
I totally agree with the Anonymous at 9:13 pm comment and CC at 9:40 AM. True conservatives (like Barry Goldwater) shouldn't care about this. The state should allow 2 consenting adults to form a union. As a conservative, there are much greater things that concern me - an ever expanding federal govt and unfunded entitlements, the influence of dirty union bosses over elected leaders, political favors for connected people and leaders (i.e. banks and auto unions).
For heavens sakes, gay marriage/unions is not going to affect you or me (or our kids) one bit - except that they might actually grow up to believe that people are actually born that way and it doesn't make them evil.
I totally agree with the Anonymous at 9:13 pm comment and CC at 9:40 AM. True conservatives (like Barry Goldwater) shouldn't care about this. The state should allow 2 consenting adults to form a union. As a conservative, there are much greater things that concern me - an ever expanding federal govt and unfunded entitlements, the influence of dirty union bosses over elected leaders, political favors for connected people and leaders (i.e. banks and auto unions).
For heavens sakes, gay marriage/unions is not going to affect you or me (or our kids) one bit - except that they might actually grow up to believe that people are actually born that way and it doesn't make them evil.
9,999,999th time... | 12:02 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Marriage and children have absolutely nothing to do with each other. You are
not required to be married to have children, you are not required to have
children to be married.
Marriage has not always been between a man and a woman - it has very often been between a man and many women. We have changed the definition of marriage many times and the definition will continue to change.
This is no more a threat to religious freedom than allowing any other choice your religion disagrees with. In spite of religious practices and teachings to the contrary, we allow birth control, we allow tattoos, we allow body piercings, we allow women to wear pants and cut their hair, we do not require women to cover their heads, and we do not lock people up in jail for swearing.
Even without marriage, your children will be exposed to children who are being raised in same-sex homes. Prohibiting marriage to those couples teaches children that marriage is not necessary for families and encourages people to live together without marriage. The best way to protect marriage and teach children how important it is is to allow it to same-sex couples.
Marriage has not always been between a man and a woman - it has very often been between a man and many women. We have changed the definition of marriage many times and the definition will continue to change.
This is no more a threat to religious freedom than allowing any other choice your religion disagrees with. In spite of religious practices and teachings to the contrary, we allow birth control, we allow tattoos, we allow body piercings, we allow women to wear pants and cut their hair, we do not require women to cover their heads, and we do not lock people up in jail for swearing.
Even without marriage, your children will be exposed to children who are being raised in same-sex homes. Prohibiting marriage to those couples teaches children that marriage is not necessary for families and encourages people to live together without marriage. The best way to protect marriage and teach children how important it is is to allow it to same-sex couples.
to -- Henry | 8:14 p.m | 12:30 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
["I also believe that acceptance of homosexuality is a step toward the
downfall of the country"]
so then what would you have gays do, Henry?
let me ask you. does the thought of kissing another man turn your stomach? does it just gross you out? me too. but did you know that for a gay man, the thought of kissing a woman does the same thing? and for a gay woman, the thought of kissing a man is just disgusting.
what if you were told you could only marry a man? and the entire idea just tears you up to even consider it. what would you do?
the very fact that you said "acceptance of homosexuality" tells me you actually have NO idea what it is like to be gay. I know lots of gays, and they all just say put yourself in their shoes.
if you couldn't marry the sex you want - in your case a woman - how would that make you feel? and if a group of people (in this case the LDS church) were to pass laws that prevent you from marrying the person you love, how would that make you feel?
think about it.
so then what would you have gays do, Henry?
let me ask you. does the thought of kissing another man turn your stomach? does it just gross you out? me too. but did you know that for a gay man, the thought of kissing a woman does the same thing? and for a gay woman, the thought of kissing a man is just disgusting.
what if you were told you could only marry a man? and the entire idea just tears you up to even consider it. what would you do?
the very fact that you said "acceptance of homosexuality" tells me you actually have NO idea what it is like to be gay. I know lots of gays, and they all just say put yourself in their shoes.
if you couldn't marry the sex you want - in your case a woman - how would that make you feel? and if a group of people (in this case the LDS church) were to pass laws that prevent you from marrying the person you love, how would that make you feel?
think about it.
RE -- to: @ henry | 8:35 a.m | 12:38 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
["the purpose of marriage is to have children."]
see - that's where you lose everyone. where did you get such a bizarre idea? marriage has never been about having children.
["gays do have the right to marry."]
no they don't. what if we said you could ONLY marry someone of the same sex (since I assume you are hetero)? would you say "ok - at least I can get married"? or would you be "no way I can marry my same sex - so I can't get married"?
instead of sitting on your high horse, why don't you take 5 minutes and put yourself in a gay person's shoes. Imagine that kissing the opposite sex is disgusting (as you feel kissing the same sex is).
none of you anti-SSM people have EVER put yourself into a gay's shoes. Think about it - whatever feelings you have about being intimate with the same sex, that is EXACTLY how gays feel about being intimate with the opposite sex.
you all need to step back and think about it - and actually "do unto others" since you would be DEVESTATED if you were forced to marry the same sex.
see - that's where you lose everyone. where did you get such a bizarre idea? marriage has never been about having children.
["gays do have the right to marry."]
no they don't. what if we said you could ONLY marry someone of the same sex (since I assume you are hetero)? would you say "ok - at least I can get married"? or would you be "no way I can marry my same sex - so I can't get married"?
instead of sitting on your high horse, why don't you take 5 minutes and put yourself in a gay person's shoes. Imagine that kissing the opposite sex is disgusting (as you feel kissing the same sex is).
none of you anti-SSM people have EVER put yourself into a gay's shoes. Think about it - whatever feelings you have about being intimate with the same sex, that is EXACTLY how gays feel about being intimate with the opposite sex.
you all need to step back and think about it - and actually "do unto others" since you would be DEVESTATED if you were forced to marry the same sex.
Anonymous | 2:54 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Are there people who were born gay? Most likely.
Are there people through a lascivious lifestyle have become that way from various sexual experiments? Sure.
Therefore, one reason why gay marriage can affect me and my children is if it becomes a "NORM" in society, then that promotes sexual lifestyles that, in my opinion, are wrong and can cause heartache and a bunch of other ills. If my children are raised thinking that that is normal, when it never has been in the history of the world, they are being trained to think or believe in a false idea.
I believe the world will catch up with the LDS church when it comes to alcohol, and the law of chastity, it will just take time.
Are there people through a lascivious lifestyle have become that way from various sexual experiments? Sure.
Therefore, one reason why gay marriage can affect me and my children is if it becomes a "NORM" in society, then that promotes sexual lifestyles that, in my opinion, are wrong and can cause heartache and a bunch of other ills. If my children are raised thinking that that is normal, when it never has been in the history of the world, they are being trained to think or believe in a false idea.
I believe the world will catch up with the LDS church when it comes to alcohol, and the law of chastity, it will just take time.
@ Anonymous | 3:46 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
You express concern that your children will learn that a lifestyle you think is
harmful is normal. You then go on to mention alcohol and chastity.
Alcohol is prevalent in society. Chastity is not.
How do you deal with your children thinking this is the "normal" state of affairs?
Oh - you teach them in the home what your values are and what you expect. Interesting. Why are you not capable of teaching them that in regards to homosexuality?
Alcohol is prevalent in society. Chastity is not.
How do you deal with your children thinking this is the "normal" state of affairs?
Oh - you teach them in the home what your values are and what you expect. Interesting. Why are you not capable of teaching them that in regards to homosexuality?
Public Policy | 4:20 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
At one time, gay acts were not tolerated by this society, and they were
outlawed. Now they are tolerated, leaving the individual to choose who they will
sleep with.
Allowing Gay marriage goes beyond toleration, and actually encourages gay marriage. These practices are neither clean nor enlightening. There is nothing there worth encouraging.
Tolerate? Yes. Encourage? No.
Allowing Gay marriage goes beyond toleration, and actually encourages gay marriage. These practices are neither clean nor enlightening. There is nothing there worth encouraging.
Tolerate? Yes. Encourage? No.
sutton | 4:53 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Public Policy... Gay marriage will NOT encourage the lifestyle. Maybe you can
explain why you think it will, But to me that is like sayin' that the Ten
Commandments in a public park will "encourage" Christianity...
TO -- JSM | 12:21 a.m. | 5:17 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
["I am so thankful to those in CA who had the courage to come out in favor
of preventing legal enforcement of homosexuality."]
legal enforcement of homosexuality? that's like saying if you let mormons build a temple, you are legally enforcing everyone to become mormon.
think before you post!!
legal enforcement of homosexuality? that's like saying if you let mormons build a temple, you are legally enforcing everyone to become mormon.
think before you post!!
Jeff in California | 5:54 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
I am grateful that I was able to help pass Prop. 8 here in California. If there
is again a challenge to traditional marriage, I will fight for it as fiercely as
I fought for Prop. 8.
All the persecution that has ensued has only increased my commitment.
Would same-gender marriage destroy our country? Yes. It is no exaggeration to give it all the apocalyptic predictions that one can. I acknowledge the problem in argument that there are no immediately apparent bad effects, and some now alive will die without ever seeing how bad things can get, but, as Spencer W. Kimball pointed out, the entire human race would become extinct in one generation if same-gender sexuality were universally practiced.
I am not apologetic about opposing same-gender marriage, either religiously or secularly, nor should anyone else be. I frankly honor those who lost their jobs or were attacked for opposing same-gender marriage. To me they are martyrs, and I pray that they will be blessed for their sacrifice.
All the persecution that has ensued has only increased my commitment.
Would same-gender marriage destroy our country? Yes. It is no exaggeration to give it all the apocalyptic predictions that one can. I acknowledge the problem in argument that there are no immediately apparent bad effects, and some now alive will die without ever seeing how bad things can get, but, as Spencer W. Kimball pointed out, the entire human race would become extinct in one generation if same-gender sexuality were universally practiced.
I am not apologetic about opposing same-gender marriage, either religiously or secularly, nor should anyone else be. I frankly honor those who lost their jobs or were attacked for opposing same-gender marriage. To me they are martyrs, and I pray that they will be blessed for their sacrifice.
Anonymous | 7:29 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
Jeff in California... just because you think gay marriage will destroy us all
doesn't mean it will... if you are so sure, and if it will happen, then you
could clearly and logically explain *how* Gay marriage will destroy our
society... Fact is you can't... which is why you didn't include
anything factual or relevant in your post... just a bunch of hyperbolic
nonsense.
Tekakaromatagi | 8:24 p.m. Nov. 3, 2009
"True conservatives would leave spousal choice to individuals, NOT to the
government."
Yeah, I know. That would also make the people who are protecting marriage liberal in another way: strong families are very powerful deterrent to poverty.
Tekakaromatagi
Yeah, I know. That would also make the people who are protecting marriage liberal in another way: strong families are very powerful deterrent to poverty.
Tekakaromatagi
Pagan | 10:33 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009
'All the persecution that has ensued has only increased my
commitment.'
Jeff in CA, you can still marry the person of your choice.
I cannot.
Please don't tell me your persecuted.
Your lying.
Maine has voted to repeal marriage of american citzens.
C'mon anti-gay marriage crowd! Only 5 more to go! Just think! By the time your done, the other 45 states will probably allow it!
Jeff in CA, you can still marry the person of your choice.
I cannot.
Please don't tell me your persecuted.
Your lying.
Maine has voted to repeal marriage of american citzens.
C'mon anti-gay marriage crowd! Only 5 more to go! Just think! By the time your done, the other 45 states will probably allow it!
to - Tekakaromatagi | 8:24 p.m | 10:38 a.m. Nov. 4, 2009
["That would also make the people who are protecting marriage liberal in
another way: strong families are very powerful deterrent to poverty."]
gay families are strong - just as strong as hetero marriages. so it is unclear what you are trying to say....
gay families are strong - just as strong as hetero marriages. so it is unclear what you are trying to say....
Anonymous | 5:38 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009
I agree with those who say this will affect the children. Thirty years ago, the
schools began teaching evolution as gospel, and excluded the creation theory. I
swear that everyone of my children believes in evolution to some degree, despite
the family teaching that we gave them. Don't tell me that they aren't
influenced by what they learn in school.
Observer | 6:54 a.m. Nov. 5, 2009
Traditional marriage victory in Maine!
People just don't believe we should be forced to accept marriage between two men (or women) as NORMAL.
People just don't believe we should be forced to accept marriage between two men (or women) as NORMAL.
Born that Way | 7:04 a.m. Nov. 5, 2009
Marriage in its ideal traditional biological form is the only social arrangement
of lasting consequence that encourages and fosters social, genetic, biological,
civil, spiritual, financial, physical, healthful, emotional, cultural and
ethical responsibility for the propagation of the human species. Children
deserve to have access to both contributors of their genetic make up. Whether
you're an evolutionist or a religious nutbag, the simple efficiency of a
working marriage is indisputable. It should be preserved as an ideal and
standard in any stable society. Let other arrangements be seen as
exceptions--not the rule.
yes, there are failed marriages, but that is outside the point of argument, because there will be failed gay marriages too. All things being equal, heterosexual marriage (when it works) creates the ideal arrangement for children.
yes, there are failed marriages, but that is outside the point of argument, because there will be failed gay marriages too. All things being equal, heterosexual marriage (when it works) creates the ideal arrangement for children.
Pagan | 3:55 p.m. Nov. 5, 2009
'Marriage in its ideal traditional biological form is the only social
arrangement of lasting consequence that encourages and fosters social, genetic,
biological, civil, spiritual, financial, physical, healthful, emotional,
cultural and ethical responsibility for the propagation of the human
species.'
So, you need to be married to have kids?
The 40% of children in America being raised in single-parent households says otherwise. Check the CDC.
Don't try to hide behind the children. If you hate gay people say as much.
I thought we were talking about gay marriage?
So, you need to be married to have kids?
The 40% of children in America being raised in single-parent households says otherwise. Check the CDC.
Don't try to hide behind the children. If you hate gay people say as much.
I thought we were talking about gay marriage?
re -- Born that Way | 7:04 a.m. | 3:58 p.m. Nov. 5, 2009
["All things being equal, heterosexual marriage (when it works) creates the
ideal arrangement for children."]
what does that have to do with gay mariage? gays can adopt or have children now. although you say hetero marriage is ideal, is it not fair to say that marriage in general is good for the children, providing them with a stable home and less fear?
your dismissal of gay marriage has nothing to do with kids and you know it. if you were for the KIDS then you would be all for marriage - at least for all couples that have kids...
you do realize that gay couple have kids, right?
and do you think that gays are going to kidnap the children of straight couples? no? well then where do the children of gay couples come from? foster care? state homes? isn't a kind loving gay family better than a state home?
and if gays get pregnant - are you suggesting abortion? no? then they have kids. isn't marriage better than no marriage?
HOW DO YOU THINK A CHILD FEELS WHEN SOMEONE TELLS THEM THEIR PARENTS CANNOT GET MARRIED BECAUSE SOME RELIGIOUS PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THEM?
what does that have to do with gay mariage? gays can adopt or have children now. although you say hetero marriage is ideal, is it not fair to say that marriage in general is good for the children, providing them with a stable home and less fear?
your dismissal of gay marriage has nothing to do with kids and you know it. if you were for the KIDS then you would be all for marriage - at least for all couples that have kids...
you do realize that gay couple have kids, right?
and do you think that gays are going to kidnap the children of straight couples? no? well then where do the children of gay couples come from? foster care? state homes? isn't a kind loving gay family better than a state home?
and if gays get pregnant - are you suggesting abortion? no? then they have kids. isn't marriage better than no marriage?
HOW DO YOU THINK A CHILD FEELS WHEN SOMEONE TELLS THEM THEIR PARENTS CANNOT GET MARRIED BECAUSE SOME RELIGIOUS PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THEM?
Anonymous | 7:26 p.m. Nov. 5, 2009
@Observer
Heterosexuality isn't normal....it's just COMMON.
Heterosexuality isn't normal....it's just COMMON.
Anonymous | 4:13 p.m. Nov. 6, 2009
"yes, there are failed marriages, but that is outside the point of
argument, because there will be failed gay marriages too. All things being
equal, heterosexual marriage (when it works) creates the ideal arrangement for
children."
When you can make them ALL work, then you can deprive American Citizens of the same privileges and benefits that you enjoy.
Maried couples may or may not add children to this world. They are still married either way.
The fact is 9 million children are being raised by gays. Those children deserve more than a "too bad for you that your parents are gay." They deserve to grow up in the most stable environment that we can offer them. That includes allowing their parents to marry.
It is just and right. It is the American way. Equality for all, not just those you think are righteous.
When you can make them ALL work, then you can deprive American Citizens of the same privileges and benefits that you enjoy.
Maried couples may or may not add children to this world. They are still married either way.
The fact is 9 million children are being raised by gays. Those children deserve more than a "too bad for you that your parents are gay." They deserve to grow up in the most stable environment that we can offer them. That includes allowing their parents to marry.
It is just and right. It is the American way. Equality for all, not just those you think are righteous.
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