Reader comments
Payday lenders caught in lie?

Depends... | 11:13 p.m. Oct. 30, 2009

It always depends on what numbers you want to look at and how you want to divide it up. You can make something from nothing or make something into nothing. It all depends on what you want the data to tell you.

Observer | 11:36 p.m. Oct. 30, 2009

If they're such a benign organization, why are 51% of our court cases (81% in Provo) all about collecting from customers of payday lenders?

These guys are nothing but sharks, preying on the poor and desperate. The fewer payday lenders are in business, then the better off we are as a society.

Hakon | 11:38 p.m. Oct. 30, 2009

When do people become responsible for thier actions and NOT be bailed out by the goverment. Tax payers have to pay for studies that say people are irresponsible. Quit wasting taxpayer money.

Comments continue below

Obvious Question | 11:39 p.m. Oct. 30, 2009

So what's the median duration of the loans?

Silva | 1:37 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

If Satan comes to Earth, he will be a lobbyist. People that have more power to influence our elected leaders than any constituent.

STAT | 2:37 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Seems like a simple case of understanding the differences between mean, median and mode.

Small claims. | 4:11 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Of the small claims filed in court, how many are awarded by default where the defendant is a no show? Most of the poor or users of payday lenders can't afford a lawyer to combat these pay day lenders and their lawyers so these awards are a reward to payday lenders who can then garnish a persons wages or income. Then these pay day lenders submit extraordinary expense to pursue the borrower in court that are unknown to those who borrow from them.

Perhaps the law and courts should limit what the payday lenders can sue for to the amount of loan plus loan interest only. Exclude all lawyer fees and business costs.

Like all loan shark businesses they are in it for the interest and other fees they can collect for non payment. Also include a minimum time limit for loans to a minimum of 35 days to better allow people to repay in a reasonable time frame. People borrowing money on a monthly pay cycle don't have the proper amount of time to repay which is unreasonable. Also, how much of the fees and terms and conditions are disclosed to borrowers?

Shut Them Down | 4:17 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

A lot of these pay loans sharks are also pawn shops and heaven knows we need less of them. They are in too many cases worse citizens than those that steal items and sell them to pawn stores or cover the theft with 3rd & 4th party help. They prey off from the distressed and beaten down people in too many cases. Why not set up state and city run relief centers to take over and oversee these kind of transactions? There are alot of good quality people looking for employment that could be hired and put to work. Of course it would have to be run as a profitable business but not at 500% return, and stolen items could be confiscated more readily.

sa | 4:27 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

People lie, companies lie? Really now. It is time that the niave Utah legislators wake up.

caught in a lie.caught stealing. | 5:04 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Pay day lenders.
And all like them.
By their very existence, these bloodsucking leaches are caught in a lie.

flatlander | 7:28 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

when my son ran over his checking acount by $2 the bank charged him $35 dollars and I do not see any organizations coming to his aid about exhorbitant fees. Oh that's right they are an established institution in the community so that is OK.

Brandon | 8:25 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

All that I see about this industry is everyone focusing and complaining about the problem instead of starving it and feeding the solution. Educating people on how interest works and living outside of your means causes people to become a slave of these payday lenders!

slcfirefighter | 8:33 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Why is it a surprise that loan sharks lie?

Mafia | 9:09 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

They have Frank and Shurtleff and the republican party on their side. We pay for the court costs through our taxes to make a few people rich and finance their politcal campaigns. Tony Soprano would love it here in Utah.

John | 9:32 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Please do not throw out the baby with the bath water. Having worked in a recovery office for a lender in another State, I can confirm that most people who use Payday Loan Centers do pay them on time. The Payday Lenders would like them to extend the loans to the extent allowed by law. When comparing the amount charged by Payday Lenders (in NV limited to $8 per $100 per week) the amounts seem high on an APR comparison but if you calculate what a regular bank charges in fees and charges to cover the same amount in overdrafts it is only about one-third. Payday lenders do not have the same requirements for banks to open accounts so they provide convenience as well. Payday lenders have also kept alot of people employed as well.

Pay Day lenders are God send | 9:34 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Banks only lend to white rich educated male. Those of you who talk of 400% interest rate would never take the yearly rate when getting a hotel room, which would be something like $150,000 for the hotel room. No the nightly rate is $129, noboby pays the yearly rate. I borrow $50 at 10 percent and the interest is $5. Better than stealing or robbing a bank which is also increasing if you haven't notice. This is a free country---free capitolist country. Pay Day lenders help fill a void. Banks only lend to the perfect---what of the other people of society?

Banks & CUs are Worse | 9:42 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

I agree with flatlander. Deseret First's "member fees" are nothing more than a HIGH, really high, interest rate. Over draft fees are the same. When a financial institution purposely posts automatic withdrawals BEFORE posting automatic deposits that come in at the same time - that's wrong! When a financial institution charges you a $25 or $35 fee because your account was "overdrawn" by $2, $20, or $200 for 2 minutes because they chose to post a withdrawal before a deposit - that's wrong! Banks and Credit Union practices should be the ones being studied! I've been with DFCU for 13 years and they started this posting practice a few years ago. We've had several conversations about not only the legality of it, but the morality of it. At the very least, it contradicts normal accounting practices. Their reason for doing so is clear - they want to make money at the expense of character, decency, and their customer.

Anonymous | 10:13 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

What would Christians do?

If thou lend money to any of My people, even to the poor with thee, thou shalt not be to him as a creditor; neither shall ye lay upon him interest. (Exodus, 22:25

And if thy brother be waxen poor, and his means fail with thee; then thou shalt uphold him: as a stranger and a settler shall he live with thee. Take thou no interest of him or increase; but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee. Thou shalt not give him thy money upon interest, nor give him thy victuals for increase. (Leviticus, 25:35

"But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great". Many interpret this as condemning usury, while others see it as a call to personal altruism and not a general prohibition on usury, which they see as a wise business practice that is not referenced in this verse. Luke 6:35

ST | 12:34 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Why don't they just take the median instead of the average? That would eliminate any statistical anomolies either high or low. Did these people take statistics in College?

Pay Day loan lobbyist? | 12:38 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Does Pignanelli lie? He claims that a few borrowers skew the data. But if 100 borrowers paid within 14 days and only ten took six months to pay(180 days) the average would still be less than the 31 days average that he disputes.

Anonymous | 12:40 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

How about low class used car dealers who take advantage of folks with no credit by selling them clunkers that will break down and die before they can be paid off?

re:Pay Dat Lenders are God Send | 1:12 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Dear sir, please be upfront in your posts and tell people that you ARE a pay day money lender. Also God has nothing to do with your predatory practices.

Love, Mom

Time for strict regulation | 6:33 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

This is an industry that is full of corruption.
Time to regulate them.

Anonymous | 6:49 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

"Did these people take statistics in College?" What is the average distribution for intelligence in a population? The fact is, there will be people on the losing end of the curve. Some people will not have the abilities to grasp, even eighth grad math. Are we are brother's keeper. We know how Cain answered this question.

Loan Sharks | 8:49 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

These loans ruined my financial life. Don't ever get involved. Government must regulate now!

Here's the Facts | 9:05 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

We've spoken with Lee Davidson a number of times about this on behalf of payday lenders. No surprise he got his numbers mixed up. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Half are paid off in two weeks and 90 percent are paid off in a month. Exactly the same as the state's report shows. That's been the story from the beginning. If Lee can't get his numbers straight that's his problem, not the payday lending industry.

John C. C. | 9:34 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Payday lenders may provide a needed service, but they need much tighter regulation to prevent predatory practices. The more extreme practices are protected by the Republican majority in Utah, to whom the lenders donate heavily. I would bet that low income families who suffer the most are mostly Democrats. How much can they donate to politicians?

Most of my fellow Christians claim that Republicans hold the moral high ground over Democrats. I am beginning to doubt that.

Credit Unions Offer These Loans | 10:22 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

I know many Credit Unions offer "Payday Loan" alternatives that are just wolves dresses in a sheep costume. Check out "Access Loans" on America First FU's website. Those loans damage the lives of their members. Where is the morality of that?

WBM5 | 3:53 p.m. Nov. 1, 2009

Read "The Working Poor" and "Why the Poor Pay More" and get educated about the people who are caught at the poor end of the spectrum. The payday loan people do fill a void but trust me the poor pay for being poor. The payday people are really nothing more than legalized loan sharks.

George | 7:18 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009

Oh come on people, nobody forces anyone into these situations. They choose to walk into these stores. The banks are just as bad if not worse. Why do we not start writing articles about them? Why don't we have our government regulate and own banks? Oh wait the government is starting to do that and everyone is complaining about it. Are we wanting to become socialist or communists because that is exactly where we are going talking about the government regulating everything.

Jon Schultz | 9:28 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009

Borrowers who know from the start that they are not going to be able to repay their entire loan in two weeks should be able to sign up for an installment payday advance instead of a regular payday advance.

With an installment payday advance they would leave two or more checks, instead of one, post dated to their coming paydays, and the lender would cash the checks one by one on each payday.

That would save the customer the stress of having to go back to the store repeatedly to refinance the loan, and it would save the store the expense of having to process refinancings, which should allow stores to offer such installment payday loans at a lower APR than regular payday loans.

A regular payday loan would of course be the least expensive option for borrowers because they would only be paying interest for two weeks, but when the borrower knows from the start that he or she won't be able to pay off the entire loan in two weeks, an installment payday loan is most definitely the way to go.

Prohibiting deception is important, but a free market will always work best.

Dave | 10:57 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009

Regardless of how you want to spin it, pay day loan shark shops are a scam. They take advantage of those who can least afford it.

The arguement that they are simply part of the free market is naive and misguided. If this is purely a free enterprise argument then you could also justify prostitution and gambling in Utah, following the same logic.

When 80% of small claims lawsuits in Utah County are driven by payday lenders that indicates that something isn't right. A few people get rich while many get pushed out of society onto social programs. If your wages are permananently garnished to pay off the ten lawsuits you have from payday lenders, then why work. Just go on welfare and call it a day. I've seen this happen.

For the record, I am Republican. The only reason the payday lenders haven't been controlled yet is because they are deeply in bed with our Republican legislature. Several higher ups in the republican party own multiple payday loan shops. Mark Shurtlif receives much of his campaign funds from them. Payday Lenders are the third largest campaign donor to republicans in Utah behind Energy Solutions and IHC.

PaydayLendingRep | 9:40 a.m. Nov. 3, 2009

I'll keep my comment short, since this article seems to focus around the "cycle of debt" issue.

The claim that payday lenders don’t consider borrowers’ ability to repay is irrational. All reputable payday lenders have underwriting criteria, in addition to the requirements of a steady income and checking account.
Under CSFA's Best Practices, any customer who cannot payback their loan when due has the option of entering into an extended payment plan, allowing them to repay the loan over a period of additional weeks. This option is provided to customers for any reason and at no additional cost.
We support educating and providing solutions for customers who may have become over-reliant on the service.
These are business, not charities. It would not make good business sense to loan money to people who can't pay you back.

GageQ | 12:50 a.m. Nov. 7, 2009

It would seem that payday lenders and payday loans aren't as bad as the huge banks we just gave trillions to, and it isn't as if payday lenders buy Congressmen, is it?

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