Deseret News | Health-care reform sticker shock is jaw-dropping

Reader comments
Joseph Cramer, M.D.: Health-care reform sticker shock is jaw-dropping

Hey joe | 3:53 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

You are stunningly ignorant. How are doctors going to become suddenly perfect in practice and in character. Perfect health care is a pipe dream. Regardless of the system, nobody will get the perfect treatment at the perfect time. We are all humans.

YeahRight | 6:45 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

The cost for insuring the nations uninsured is not the price tag you see. The price tag is the cost of the government's acquiring of and controlling of the world's best medical care system, even given its flaws. There is no way on God's Green Earth would it ever cost $2Trillion+ to insure 20 Million people. Show me the math where it costs that much! Show me where we have to destroy that which we have to placate less that 10% of our population? Show me! Show the rest of the USA for that matter! This is nothing more that a power grab and a destruction of our lifestyle as we know it to placate the Looney Left and their dream of their own Utopia.

Tax business, not people | 8:00 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

We are entitled to free health care, free housing, free food and free transportation.

To pay for this, we need to tax businesses, not people except for the rich who make more than $100,000 per year.

Comments continue below

Doug G | 8:37 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

I think that we're looking at more in the way of reforms and less in the way of just throwing more money at the status quo.

Yes, you did Doc | 8:43 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

You forgot "We the frequenters of fast food" that are overweight, leading to type 2 diabetes.

Chill out and trust gov't | 9:26 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Wake up. For how long are we going to be duped by politically correct rhetoric? It tells us "go along with this health care reform" or else, it strongly implies, "you lack compassion", "are ignorant, fearful" victims of conservative media or just a plain "mean, bad person".This is madness, we can't ignore the tract record of this government. The same people who so fiercely spoke out during Bush's admin. are now telling us to "relax, trust us,everything will be wonderful now."

We can do better | 9:45 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Dr. Cramer is correct. Drs are a key player in healthcare costs.

We have one of the highest rates of medical mistakes in the world. Why is this?

A study done at Dartmouth revealed a significant ($400-$700 billion) level of inefficiencies in our medical system. They identified 5 key areas:
#1 variation in the intensity of clinical care
#2 lack of compliance with evidence-based guidelines
#3 Limited adoption of clinical information technologies
#4 Failure of primary care systems to provide timely access. (ie uninsured dependency on the ER for healthcare)
#5 Underuse of cost effective diagnostic tests

Mike Richards | 10:05 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Let's do the math. At $2 Trillion for projected costs and with 300 million citizens, EACH and EVERY citizen would have to pay $6,666 for health-care.

That doesn't seem reasonable to me. Somebody needs to sharpen his pencil and cross out the extras.

To those who advocate taxing business to pay for everything that they don't want to pay for themselves: What a novel idea. Let's tax shoe makers who make high-heeled shoes 500% more. I don't wear high-heels so it wouldn't affect me. How about taxing the coffee industry at least 1000% more. I don't drink coffee, so that wouldn't affect me. How about adding a $50 surcharge to every hair-dye job at every beauty salon. My hair is white enough. I don't need help to make it any whiter.

If you tax a business, you indirectly tax the people who buy from that business. Just because YOU don't want that product doen't mean that YOU should benefit by taxing that business.

If you want something, find a way to pay for it YOURSELF.

KM | 10:15 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

The shock is wearing off. Know why? Because when we throw around nubmers in the trillions, billions doesn't seem so bad. Welcome to the good old bankrupt days of the U.S.A.
When will otherwise sensible people, on the left and right, come back to their senses and realize we can no longer afford the great society. The myth that everything can be afforded? It can't and we can't. Those are harsh words for the 60's dreamers, who love to take ones freedom and give to another, more deserving than they. As Obamas man, Van Jones screamed, "give them the wealth! Give them the wealth!" Insane!

@Tax business, not people | 10:23 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Wow, I didn't realize I was rich.

Redshirt | 11:55 a.m. Oct. 31, 2009

TO "Tax business, not people | 8:00 a.m." and where do you think businesses get their money from?

If businesses are taxed more, then their products will cost more. If their products cost more, they will sell fewer products. If fewer products are sold, then fewer taxes are collected. If few taxes are collected, then how will this be funded.

Duh Cramer | 1:37 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Good Morning, Dr. Cramer. I trust now that you will have a change of heart in what you have been spewing for several months now. If only you would have listened, you would have known that health care is expensive. To ADD an additional 900 Billion dollars to what we are already spending on health care to insure an addional 45 million people means that each uninsured person we insure will cost $20,000.

How are you for being taxed and ADDITIONAL close to $2,000 a month above your current taxes to pay for the uninsured to get health care?

Sounds like Dr. Cramer just abandoned liberalism for conservativism.

Just a thought | 6:19 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

Sometimes you have to invest a lot of money to get a better return.
For example, an old car. You can keep putting money into expensive repairs but still have an old car or you can buy a newer car and drive for many years without any repairs.

Regardless of what healthcare reform passes, we still need to make substantial changes in the way we do things to bring costs down. Hopefully this will just be the beginning.

Agree | 11:04 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

This time a new car model (Healthcare) is needed. However it will take a while for the new car model to be distributed and the distribution does need to start now!

Anonymous | 11:06 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

"I'm better at spending your money than you."
Hussein Obama

Anonymous | 11:07 p.m. Oct. 31, 2009

I work hard so Obama voters dont have to

Can't Wait | 8:06 a.m. Nov. 1, 2009

For the US to be completely bankrupt, only to have Barry jump in and say that it was Bush's and the danged conservative's fault for not stopping them from going too far.

As far as the new car syndrome.. You're right about the "nickel and diming" problem, but the issue is that you want to buy a proven economical model that is efficient, not one that is un-tried and hard to handle, or one that is already proven a dud.

That's only the begining | 9:14 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009

This estimate is for a year when the plan isn't even in affect. It doesn't start paying out any benefits until a year AFTER Obama leaves office (possibly).

But you can bet they will raise taxes NOW to help pay for the program that doesn't even start paying out benefits for 4 more years.

Imagine how much taxes will have to increase when they start paying benefits!

HC Reform | 11:09 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009

To truly address the healthcare issues, we first need to get the facts: 1) As much as we would like to think our health system is the best in the world, it isn't. We rank in the lower half of the top 20 countries for reasons stated by Dr. Cramer including we have too many medical errors that could be eliminated. 2) The government, directly through Medicare, Medicaid, V.A., controls approximately 45% of health care, and indirectly, since every payer, physician and hospital bases their charges and reimbursement rates off of the Medicare Fee Schedule and RVUs/ DRGs, the vast majority of the remainder. We have a system that is government controlled already and it isn't working. 3) Healthcare is the only major industry in the world that can't accurately tell you the costs for a specific service. Very few physicians and hospitals have accurately "costed" out their services. They "ball park" it like the government with RCCs (Ratio of cost to charges)and since charges mean very little in healthcare except if you're uninsured, they have no clue of true costs. 4) Sadly, money is the motive of many providers, not patient care.

RE: Tax Businesses | 11:36 a.m. Nov. 2, 2009

Why resent those who happen to be financially successful? I'm not wealthy but neither do I begrudge those who are. I'm happy for them and what they do for us "less wealthy". Changing our narrow paradigms on the "rich" may provide insight into the impact the "rich" already have on society. For example, the rich, typically live in larger houses compared to you and me, which can be hard on our fragile egos but in reality is a good thing for society. Real estate agents, contractors/ subcontractors, construction/ landscaping workers, designers, groundskeepers, housekeepers, etc., are gainfully employed as a result and paid with after tax dollars by the rich. These in turn, pay taxes on their earnings. These houses are assessed annual property taxes that are much higher than the rest of us pay, and basically serve as anuities to the government to provide revenues for the services we all benefit from. Yes, the rich may consume more water for their lawns, electricity and gas to light/heat their homes, etc., but each of these are taxed which benefits society. FACT: if there weren't any rich, we, the less wealthy, would pay more in taxes.

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.