The budget shortfall has to come from somewhere, so where does our personal
budget shortfall come from? Should we stop eating so we can pay our taxes? Our
property taxes continue to go up even though our property is devalued. Food gets
a tax increase. We don't get raises, so where does our budget shortfall come
Utahns need to face reality. We tend to speak in platitudes - no more taxes,
amnesty is wrong, government should cut just like a business and so on. The
reality is that a billion dollars have been cut from the Utah state budget, all
at a time when we are leading the nation in population growth and the recession
increases the load on government -- more people return to college, more people
are on Medicaid and more people unemployed. Sure government has to cut, but
unlike a business, its customers increase during an economic downturn. I'm
grateful that someone is actually facing reality and saying we ought to consider
increasing revenues. It's a courageous thing to say and a sign of a leader.
Thank you to Mr. Beattie
This guy is a historical loser as we know.How about putting a meaningful
stop to the influx of foreigners from all over the world whom we are supporting.
I see them every day in my healthcare setting. This drain, is killing us !
When are the knuckleheads on the hill going to realize what is happening here.
They keep coming in by the droves.Free health care, free this, free that.
This is irresponsible and wrong !
Yeah, that'll fix the economy. What a genius!
You can increase my taxes too, I am willing to do what is needed to make sure
that services are not cut off. We cannot allow our government to fold!
Olene Walker, who the Repubs decided couldn't run again, warned us that the
portion of the sales tax that came from food was the most stable of all of our
taxes.She said that if we removed that part we would be subject to
drastic ups and downs in state revenues whenever the economy went through
cyclical changes.We did it anyway, because we declared it to be
regressive. Well, guess what... she was right.We now have a tax
system that magnifies economic cycles.
I have not had a pay cut or increase in about four years, but I would estimate
my purchasing power is down by about 20% in that same period. Just a rough
estimate. Of course, I'm expected to just be thankful I have a job these days
and soldier on. What about you all? Any similar (or very different)
REPUBLICANS floating the TAX INCREASE balloon?On an hourly basis, in
our wonderful 24/7 news cycle, we see REPUBLICANS wringing their hands over the
exploding deficit. We hear their MANTRA, NO MORE SPENDING; NO MORE TAXES.Yet, in one of the reddest of the red states, we have REPUBLICANS going
for TAX INCREASES?The voters see clearly there is NO DIFFERENCE
between a TAX and SPEND DEOMCRAT and a TAX and SPEND REPUBLICAN.
As a former Chamber employee, I can honestly say that my first reaction to this
article was: Lane Beattie actually DID something? Whether he's
right about this or wrong, I just can't believe that he's not on his ranch, on a
golf course, or on a cruise somewhere.That's where he spends most
every working day, while still pulling in a 6 figure paycheck. That's just
awesome leadership, right there.
When are we as a people going to realize that government will NEVER be able to
accomplish what they say they want to. I for one am going to avoid supporting
the monster any way I can. If everyone did this, they would have to privatize
and get out of our way, so the productive people in the world could finally be
free. Voting is coersion by force. If you vote, you support and deserve what
Who is the leader here?Is it the guy who says, "We're in a real
crisis here, and we can make some more huge cuts to the budget, but as we do
that let's keep some possible tax increases on the table to avoid any draconian
reductions to things like education."Or is it the guy who says, "I
won't propose a tax increase. I will just cut and cut and cut in my proposed
budget. We may have to cut education another 15% this year. If people want to
whine about the size of the cuts, and if they demand a tax increase, we'll do it
only if they get angry enough so we can blame the whole thing on them. We'll
probably end up in the same place as Lane Beatty, but I won't stick my neck out
for it."One is a leader, the other a political tool. Lane, why are
you not running for Governor??? It is sad that the republican who most sees
things like you do, with vision, forsight, and reason, is actually a democrat-
IF the Chamber ever wanted to really help Utah taxpayers, they would
lobby,lobby,lobby the Utah Legislature to DO WHATEVER IS NECESSARY to deny
services to illegals. Yes, MANY MORE things can still be done to convince the
illegals to "move on". How about forbidding ANY state agency from printing
ANYTHING in Spanish? The problem is, the Chamber will certainly not
expect business to pay any higher taxes, AND, they certainly want to make sure
the illegals are available for business to EXPLOIT. That leaves ALL THE REST of
us to pick up the shortage in tax revenue!!The small amount of credibility
the Chamber of Commerce has is ERODING fast!!
The sales tax on food is the most regressive tax on poorer people. They spend a
greater percentage of their income on food than do the middle class and rich.
Nothing like a RINO in the building to suggest raising taxes in the middle
of a recession rather than decreasing government.
Fire Beattie. Cut taxes.
so the state can continue to spend and create programs to spend money on .. but
those of us who actually work, not having pay raises for years , and some even
without jobs anymore have to pay higher taxes to pay for those who never really
did anything anyway ... just stick their hand out and take and take and take ..
we the workers do without, we cut spending in our homes and our
purchases and the state continues on with same-old same-old .. who
is going to be left to pay for this state ?? if the state doesnt start cutting
programs .. 10% unemployment , reduced working hours and pay, no pay raises, the
state has to stop the spending they have granted to minorities for decades
otherwise there wont be anybody left in this state to pay the price for the joy
of being here ... good luck to us all ...
To Mike:DTS can't do their job as it is. How can they possibly take
a 30% cut? I do not believe a 10% cut across the board would be at all easy. In
fact, it would hurt a great deal. Some departments, however, didn't feel last
years cuts as deeply as others. Community and Culture being one of them.
Tell me how investing in education is going to help us out of the rotten
republican caused mess we are in? If you wnat to invest some money in education
lets have a lottery and a para-mutuel gaming law passed. That takes care of
education, now what to do about the rest? How about eliminating numerous state
funded playgrounds these legislators think we need and I'm not talking childrens
playgrounds folks. Put the food tax back on O.K., put a head tax on school
children, stop the deductibles for charity and religion donations(tithing
included) the churches have enough bankrolled for a few years until we pull out
of this economic mess. This is just temporary of course but maybe just maybe its
time for the haves to go without their incomes short term also. They could help
the oppressed short term to survive if they would open their over stuffed
wallets! But don't just increase taxes carte blanc, that has been for tooooo
long the republican way, big business way for tooooo long.
The Chamber of Commerce isn't what it used to be. It is no longer made up of
local merchants and manufacturers because we're now a big box society and not
much is built in the USA any more.Instead, the chamber is made up of
social service agencies and local reps from big corporations.As a result
you get them endorsing amnesty for illegal aliens and favoring tax increases.Let them take a position on anything, but don't claim that the Chamber
The Chamber of Commerce is also against tightening down on illegal aliens. It
shows that Battie is no friend of the tax payer. And you thing Utah is
conservative, he was president of the senate. The state needs to do what normal
people have done and cut spending.
As a state employee working at the Dept of Administration Services, I believe
that we need to cut State programs and trim budgets. Why should Govt not be
trimmed when business and free enterprise has to be cut? The State of Utah is
fairly efficient but we could easily cut 10% across the board and still provide
decent services. In fact the Dept of Technology Services (DTS) could easily cut
20-30% without affecting their services (a lot of waste in that division).
figure this out. Herbert put Bangerter in charge of finding out how to optimize
state tax money. Isn't that like turning Bill Clinton loose in a sorority house
or Sadam Obama in Air Force One? I have been following Gov. Herbert very
closely and have been very impressed by his positions and stands. I applaud him
on his desire (and fulfillment, I hope) of not increasing taxes for his first
budget. I'm just afraid that, with time and associating with career
politicians, he too will get caught up in the governmental tax-and-spend
mentality. He needs to work with people that have and hold the same
conservative beliefs and values that he has.
Making it more difficult for the average citizen to survive is not the way to
get us out of this mess. My income has decreased because of this slowing economy
and as a result I have had to cut back on what I enjoy to balance my budget. I
expect the same thing from government, responsible spending.It is
wrong for the elected politicians to believe that they can always spend the way
they want to. I don't care whether we are talking about education or not.
Sometimes the money we want to spend is not there and we must be more cautious
in how we spend what we have. To suggest that this means government has the
right to just raise taxes is wrong!
tax soda and ice cream. problem solved.
What is Mr. Beatties Salary? He will make it through with hardly a noticable
drop in net pay. Take a look at the people hurt most by taxes! Mr Beattie just
shrugs this off as he did as a member of the legislature. The people do not
matter! When the income for people drops, they have to cut back. The
government should do the same, but it is easier to raise taxes and destroy
The government must cut its "services." If there is a shortfall, then our
leaders need to do what we have to do in our own homes--CUT BACK! Sure the
dependent class is going to scream. My kids are complaining because we don't
live the way we used to when we had money too. So what... let em scream.We personally are dealing with our own shortfalls. And now you want to
make it harder by adding to the cost of fuel and food? Just keep squeezing and
you will see a revolt like you've never seen. STOP IT ALREADY!
Another business "lap dog" group proposing tax increases on individuals. There
are plenty of tax exemptions and other tax incentatives given to business that
can and should be removed.
Blatent tax on the middle class. If the Dems did this, they would be lambasted
by the Republicans.
CUT, Cut, and Cut again before considering any additional tax. Cig tax, fine.
Sales tax hike on food, fine. Severance tax on coal, fine. BUT stop there!
Well, now that they have eroded our tax base with their gift giving, we find
ourselves unable to meet our expenses. It's time to reverse those tax base
destroying revenue reductions (including the sales tax on food) and put our
state back in the black. If the legislature hadn't been so eager to buy votes
and had used the surpluses wisely by investing in education and/or putting more
aside for a rainy day we wouldn't be in this predicament.
This is ludicrous mentality. Instead of calling it a shortfall, just
think of it as the new tax base they have to work with and forget about raising
taxes to maintain what they had in the past. The legislators should look in to
canceling and eliminating some existing programs no longer supportable by
government. Many of Utah's cities and state programs were created in windfall
tax years with the understanding that nothing is permanent. Sure,
some government workers would lose jobs but that's part of the economics system
in the national trends. There's a reason for the reduced amount of taxes the
state has to work with and they must adjust to this new level of operating
capital called taxes. This mindset of local governments must change with the
times and what they have to work with. The legislators approved most
non government welfare and social programs and they can surely repeal and
abolish them as well so we can have a good functioning government. It's why we
have this form of government, it's ability to adjust and run itself with
reasonable taxation with what is available in a depressed economy.
No such thing as a temporary tax increase. I remember being shocked
when sales taxes went over 4%. Now we will see them go to 7%. If anyone thinks
they will go back down, think again.
I think what Mr. Beattie was really expressing is that there are a number of
potential solutions to balance the budget–and the business community is
willing to look at alternatives and everything should be on the table. Our legislators face difficult decisions as they balance the budget (as they
are required to do) and I'm glad to see that we're not leaving them hanging
without support and input from the business community--a group that has plenty
of expertise when it comes to making sound financial decisions. Those who were at the presentation know that the Chamber has not fully
formulated a detailed plan but is still in the planning stages–prudently
looking at various options. To say the Chamber supports tax increases is
getting ahead of the organization. I'm waiting to hear the
Chamber’s real proposal and appreciate a group working toward a solution.
The Chamber deserves our thanks, not a premature attack before they can even lay
out their plan.
Simple solution, we identify all government programs. Each week we vote for our
favorite program. The bottom 100 million dollars in programs get voted off the
budget each week until we balance the budget. It works in the "real" world, it
ought to work in the fantasy land up on the hill.
**"It's common sense," Beattie told reporters after his presentation to about 50
lawmakers and others gathered for the forum. "When you're a billion dollars
short, it's got to come from somewhere."**Beattie wouldn't know
common sense if it bit him. You don't raise taxes in a slow economy - the people
don't have more to give. It's time to trim down government expenses and
activities.If 10% is good enough for God, why is it that government
wants so much more than that?
Why do we continue to nickle and dime ourselves to death with fees and other
backdoor taxes instead of just raising taxes? We have a horrific
shortfall and as hard as it is to take, we need to raise taxes to get us through
this economic downturn. Make the tax increase valid for one year
and assess how we are at that time.
I was at this forum. I too was interested to hear Mr. Beattie advocate a wide
array of tax increases. But Gov Bangerter also said that he doesn't think Utah
can take a general tax increase. He told the story of when he was governor and
polling said Utahans wanted higher taxes to pay for education. But when he
raised taxes he saw his approval rating drop from 75% to 41%. It took him 2
years to get it back over 50% and win reelection.
"Tax the Government" comments are symptomatic of many of the public's simplistic
concepts. "The Government" is us! What makes the commenter thing that Lane's
paycheck is not taxed the same as everyone else's paycheck. The comment reminds
me of the Bill Cosby episode when Bill's daughter brought home her first
paycheck and was surprised to discover that witholdings had been taken from her
gross pay. When Bill explained that the witholdings went to pay for roads,
military protection, etc. etc. her response was "I thought the government paid
for all that." It seems we have raised an entire generation of economic
why in heavens name would you raise taxes in utah we are so under paid in utah
its a poverty state children our moving out of state for better pay.We claim to
be a family state,but children of family,s are leaving.
Well MR. Lane Beattie how about we tax your paycheck by 20 to 40% and see how
you like your taxes increased???