Deseret News | Charity toward all people

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Charity toward all people

D&C 132 | 9:03 a.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Good article.

Yeah Right | 10:43 a.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Does that also include charity towards gays and lesbians?

RE: Yeah right | 12:18 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Thanks closed minded one, We have charity for everyone as children of God, but we don't have to accept their lifestyles. If it's a sin, it's a sin. God cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance, but He still loves all his children. I see you could work on charity towards LDS people yourself.

Comments continue below

JAYEG | 12:45 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Re: Yeah Right

No. And you'd better include school girls who want to wear a nose stud to honor their ancestral culture.

People were actually referring to kids who wear piercings, baggy clothes, goth clothes, or orange hair as freaks on another thread.

re: Yeah Right | 12:50 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

"Does that also include charity towards gays and lesbians?"

Sure it does, but it is not charitable to enable bad behavior.

When the woman was taken in adultry, Christ didn't say, "Since I love you, keep on sinning", he said "Go and sin no more"

RE: Jayeg | 1:10 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

I see you have a lot of charity toward what other people believe as well. You all forget that it is not LDS people or the leaders that created the commandments. Just ask Moses.

To Jayeg and Yeah Right | 1:18 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

The actions of some do not represent the beliefs of many.

To put some perspective out there: I have been discriminated against because of my religion. I've been teased and abandoned by friends because maybe I dress a little more modestly than others and I have a big family and I don't drink. People have called me a freak because I believe the trinity is three separate people. My parents have been told that their kids will never succeed in their future careers because they are bound to Mormon principles (whatever that means).

Because these cruel people have been Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, homosexual, etc. I have every right (according to your reasoning) to hate them all. But like I said, the comments and the lies and the actions of a bigoted minority DO NOT represent the beliefs and understanding of the majority.

I am ashamed of those LDS folks out there who have wronged you. But to assume that all of us are the way you think we are is folly on your part. Everyone needs to learn a little more about charity. And EVERYONE needs to practice it.

Anonymous | 2:06 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Re: RE: Jayeg | 1:10 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Ask Moses? He's not actually speaking at the moment...and according to Moses, God instructed him to commit genocide a number of times.

IMPO...everyone is entitled to believe as he, or she deems fit, and you are all entitled to share those beliefs and opinions on these forums...just as I am.

And in my opinion, the LDS Church and many of it's members, haven't behaved charitably toward homosexuals, just as those claiming to be members of the faith haven't been behaving charitably to the school girl who wanted to wear a nose stud to honor her ancestral culture.

To Yeah Right, JAYEG, To Jayeg | 2:12 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

It's sad you all missed the point of Bro. Card's message. You jump to your own conclusions about his and everyone's else's motives, including being ashamed of LDS folks who don't perform as you would like.

Bro. Card's [and the Lord's] point is this -- don't be so quick to assume bad motive. Don't leap to ascribe bad motive to someone, when ignorance, inexperience, or just thoughtlessness will explain their actions.

In other words -- cut them the same slack you would like to be extended to you.

Sound familiar?

JAYEG | 2:14 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Re:RE: Jayeg | 1:10 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

You're doing a spot of ASSUMING about me, yourself.

I am a lifelong member of the LDS faith, for well over half a century now, and I believe that it is my duty, as a member, to hold the leaders of my faith, and my fellow members accountable when I deem their actions to be wrongful, and to speak out against it publicly.

The LDS Church has altered their policies toward homosexuals, rather drastically over the past decades. And more than one President has opined that we do not know whether homosexuality has genetic causation, and much research must be done before we know one way or the other.

I honor these two men for at least admitting this much, and it will be interesting to see what the Church has to say IF, or WHEN research proves genetic causations.

In the mean time...I do not hate Mormons, nor do I hate Catholics, or Jews, or Muslims, or anyone else...and I would appreciate it if you would discontinuing your implications and assumptions that I do.

JAYEG | 2:22 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

For the record...I do not consider people who would deign to refer to children who wear nose rings, or multiple piercings or goth clothing, or baggy clothing, as freaks...to understand the concept of charity, or humility as taught by the one you refer to as Jesus Christ.

IMPO...while the faith I belong to continues to abuse others through it's policies, I will point out the abuse as I see it.

You may either agree with my opinions, or assertions, or you may disagree as you choose, and as is your right.

anti-mormon trolls | 4:10 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Here we go again. All of this hate spewing forth. Can't we just all get along?

Truth, not Fiction | 4:57 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Brother Card is not a psychologist; he is a popular fiction writer, and it shows.

He recommends ascribing only “decent, understandable motives” to people rather than “vile motives.” But it is just as untruthful, dishonest, and disingenuous to ascribe (fabricate) “decent, understandable” motives to people’s behavior as it is to ascribe “vile” motives to them. Either type of story about the motives of others is conjecture, supposition, and guesswork — an exercise in illusion, fiction and fantasy, which is why Card recommends it.

The fact that for Card, as well as many LDS, these are the only two, diametrically opposed options — “decent” versus “vile” — reflects simple-minded, dichotomous thinking that is unhealthy and unrealistic. Dealing in the realm of such heuristic, irrational thinking is the real problem, not ascribing “vile” motives to others.

Having “Charity towards all people” has nothing to do with what kind of stories you concoct and tell yourself about other people’s behavior. It has everything to do with YOUR behavior towards others, regardless of YOUR motives OR THEIRS. God “maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust” (Matt.5:45).

from dust to glory | 5:11 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Poster at 1:18,"I beleive the trinity is three seperate people"[persons] All Mormons should know Joseph Smith taught; There is only one God, "Which Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal,without end." Amen (D&C 20:28)also see (2Nephi 31:21 and 3 Nephi 11:36)

Yeah Right | 5:18 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Re: "Can't we just all get along?"

Nope. Remember, you threw the first stone. (In case you forgot, that was another lesson taught by Christ.)

to 4:10 Name Callers | 5:26 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Start by not calling people names. Troll who? Are you a TROLL? Takes one to know one.

accept the fact that not everyone is going to agree with you or your religion. If you hate nonmembers or inactive members than talk to Deseret News about making their Newspapers PRIVATE so the rest of the world can't voice an opinion here.

Brian Scott Richardson | 5:29 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Re: JAYEG | 2:14 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

You say you wonder what LDS leaders will say if or when genetic causation for homosexual tendencies is proven.

I have to ask what you feel about the Word of Wisdom knowing that research has proven a genetic link to addictive behavior and alcoholism? Does the no alcohol part of the Word of Wisdom get overlooked for these people?

As someone who suffers from bipolar disorder I can tell you that risk-taking behavior is part of the disease. Do I get a free ride if I were to gamble? Have an affair? Use illegal drugs?

As a lifelong LDS member you might have had the opportunity to meet a brother or sister who has struggled with homosexuality and finally beaten it.

In the end, I feel it will not matter what scientific theory says, but rather what Heavenly Father says.

Carla | 5:50 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Not everyone who disagrees with LDS are homosexuals. Give it break! I'm so tired of all you losers! Day after day the some old baloney!

LDS Lib | 6:12 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Bro. Card,

I so enjoy your insight.

I'm LDS and Liberal - which is not popular in Utah.

As a Father here, it often reminds me that our Heavenly Father loves each of us exactly the same.

Some actions my children take bring me joy, other times sadness...but my love each and every one of them is always the same.

Peace

Anonymous | 7:00 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

Charity, that is funny. I guess if your a mormon serving a mormon it makes sense but wow you all got a ways to go.

Mouse in a house | 7:43 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

I never usually read anything to do with CHARITY on DNs posts. What I do read: THAT THE TROLLS ARE HERE IN FULL FORCE or THAT ALL THE ANTIS are being mean to us poor mistreated little Mormon folks. Best of all, are those LDS folks who tell the ANTIs TO GET OUT OF UTAH, if they don't like MORMON philosophy.

One thing I have learned reading DNs posts is that you must agree with LDS, or plan to get out of town and the sooner the better and off the church owned DNs, ALSO, I read: Something needs to be done about all these ANTI non believing ANTIs on this site. One last thing... having a lack of patience for others is the MORMON way.

God loves us so much | 9:50 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

that He gave us commandments. Science can never say we were born to act a certain way; one reason why economics will never be a science is it deals with people making choices---THEIR OWN CHOICES (which they have a right to make) but if my weakness is bars and clubs, I need to avoid these dark dungeons, I just have to tell myself, "I wasn't born to hang out in darkness and danger" -----I may not have as many friends by going to bed early, but I will have less guilt and a longer life. What does science have to say about guilt? Science has its say in a lot; so does faith; so does choice; so does freedom and elections; in the mean time, let's see who really believes in loving one's enemies (enough to show them how cool the commandments are.)

Nancy | 10:32 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009

We are seeking to build up and to establish righteousness in the hearts of the people, and I want to see you, as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, male and female, so active in the discharge of your duties as Latter-day Saints, so humble, so submissive to the will of the Lord that you will not have time to spend in magnifying the weaknesses, the follies and the faults of your neighbors and of your fellow members of the Church. The Lord knows there is evil enough said in the world thoughtlessly; and without any particular intent to do wrong, but merely through the weakness of men to talk, talk, talk and say nothing-let us work and not talk-Joseph F. Smith

Anonymous | 12:34 p.m. Oct. 30, 2009

Wow! Nancy for prophet! She already presumes to think she has the authority and duty to preach to everyone else!

You go girl!

SFC RET DENNIS | 1:43 p.m. Oct. 30, 2009

Carla | 5:50 p.m. Oct. 29, 2009 you are wring, me and most LDS people could care less if you agree with us or not that is your right and more power to you. There have been a lot of name calling here as in all posts on the DN., from both sides and so I as both side how would God feel about name calling? I say believe anyway you with and then come judgment day "GOD" will decide what is to be done with all "his" children. Until "GOD" tell us that he no longer condemns same sex then I will go with what "GOD" says and that is that "GOD" disapproves of same sex relationships and that is in the Bible. Now no one s perfect and we all say and do things we should not do and both sides need to rethink how they feel and name calling will never go over no matter who you are so name calling needs to stop "GOD" would never approve, read the Bible and you can know for yourself.

rw | 12:00 p.m. Nov. 1, 2009

Card's message is so right. I am seldom wrong when I assume the best intentions of others. And oh too many times I have been ashamed of my negative judgment of another after I learned the truth.

There are at least three reasons to follow Card's advice.

First, because most of the time you'll be right. Generally people do act from the best of intentions.

Second, because it is the nature of people to live up or down to what people expect of them. Treat someone better than they are, and they will become better than they are.

Third, for your own sake. In my experience, people who love people, who are slow to condemn, who treat them with respect even in disagreement, are happier, and yes, better people. And they make the world a better place.

John Jackson | 11:39 p.m. Nov. 4, 2009

Orson, enjoyed your column. It is a great thing to be a world-reknown writer, but a greater thing to be a good person. You surely are mortal like the rest of us, but to express such thought as you do indicates you are striving to live your life that way. I think of two scriptures. In 2 Nephi 31:20, it speaks of a love of all men being one the things that can bring us toward eternal life. "All men" doesn't mean we can pick and choose, it means maintaining good feelings towards everyone. We might even have to drop our negative feelings towards a few sports icons (the ones we love to hate) if we want to reach God's kingdom. The second scripture is 1 Corinthians 13, which tells us it is better to have charity than to have the gift of prophecy. Imagine that, greater than to prophesy is to treat each other with pure love. Thanks for the column, Orson Scott. 'Tis great to be a wonderful writer, but 'tis greater to be a lover of all men, and since you aspire to such, you aspire to the real greatness.

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