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Girl kicked out of class for nose ring
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Britney | 12:48 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
It should be ok... If she were married since in her culture women don't get
the piercing till marriage. But she's not, so shouldn't be aloud to
wear it. She shouldn't get any special privileges.
B Singh | 1:11 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Very strange. Nose ring definitely has nothing to do with Sikhs and I should
know as my entire family is sikh and based in India which is the originating
state of this faith. Also I am well traveled within US and don't know of
any such practices here either.
Just for the record, Sikhs do have one practice what appears to Americans as restrictive which is the males are required to wear a turban and beards(some do and some don't. Anyway most americans mistakenly believe the turbaned males to be muslims or arabs which is another story).
However for the record, nose ring is NOT a Sikh practice or in any way related to 'culture'. I do not wish to judge the school student's right to wear stuff however I do take offense to her family's misleading logic and falsely using Sikh faith to plead her case.
Nose piercings are seen among some Hindu Indians but have nothing to do with Hindu religion either.
Sikhs kids do face racism and attacks at US schools due to head-dress and this student's case and the misinformation only hurts genuine issues.
Just for the record, Sikhs do have one practice what appears to Americans as restrictive which is the males are required to wear a turban and beards(some do and some don't. Anyway most americans mistakenly believe the turbaned males to be muslims or arabs which is another story).
However for the record, nose ring is NOT a Sikh practice or in any way related to 'culture'. I do not wish to judge the school student's right to wear stuff however I do take offense to her family's misleading logic and falsely using Sikh faith to plead her case.
Nose piercings are seen among some Hindu Indians but have nothing to do with Hindu religion either.
Sikhs kids do face racism and attacks at US schools due to head-dress and this student's case and the misinformation only hurts genuine issues.
Comments continue below
For "B Singh" | 1:57 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Mr. Singh:
It will probably interest you to learn that when I was taking my Basic Combat Training at Fort Lewis, Washington in 1967, there was a Sikh soldier who was stationed there.
He was permitted to wear his beard and turban with his United States Army uniform, and as I recall, he was assigned to work in the post finance office.
This was forty-two years ago, but I think I remember him being featured in the "ARMY TIMES" newspaper, the "STARS AND STRIPES" newspaper, and/or in "SOLDIERS" magazine.
Maybe the "DESERET NEWS" has something about it in their archives?
Thank you.
John Robert Mallernee
Armed Forces Retirement Home
Washington, D.C. 20011-8400
It will probably interest you to learn that when I was taking my Basic Combat Training at Fort Lewis, Washington in 1967, there was a Sikh soldier who was stationed there.
He was permitted to wear his beard and turban with his United States Army uniform, and as I recall, he was assigned to work in the post finance office.
This was forty-two years ago, but I think I remember him being featured in the "ARMY TIMES" newspaper, the "STARS AND STRIPES" newspaper, and/or in "SOLDIERS" magazine.
Maybe the "DESERET NEWS" has something about it in their archives?
Thank you.
John Robert Mallernee
Armed Forces Retirement Home
Washington, D.C. 20011-8400
No symbols at school | 2:10 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
It wasn't necessary to have this girl sit in the principal's office
for five hours.
Having said that, I agree with the poster who said she should not wear the facial piercing at school.
I don't believe any religious symbols should be worn to public K-12 schools.
Having said that, I agree with the poster who said she should not wear the facial piercing at school.
I don't believe any religious symbols should be worn to public K-12 schools.
To drop all the rules... | 4:19 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Imagine the uproar if a LDS kid was prohibited from wearing under garments
outside of Utah, "drop the rules" would be claiming discrimination, by
the way the Sikh faith is over 600 years old and they originated wearing
undergarments not the LDS, the undergarments are part of the 5 principles of
faith for the Sikh faith
Anonymous | 5:55 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
I agree with the earlier comment that schools are not a place for individual
expression.
I think crosses and ctr rings should be banned also. They are not required for religious practice and there should be no exceptions.
I think crosses and ctr rings should be banned also. They are not required for religious practice and there should be no exceptions.
Chris | 6:30 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Mom said she couldn't believe they would deny her that culture... give me a
break. We here in the United States are denied our culture when Merry Christmas
is taken away from our schools, when Christmas trees are called something else
other than what they are. This is our culture. No empathy here.
Loin Cloth | 6:33 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
If a loin cloth is a cultural tradition, why not wear one to school?
There must be a limit.
There must be a limit.
Good | 6:42 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
I'm glad to see the school stand by it's rules.
She can have it pierced and not wear it to school.
She can have it pierced and not wear it to school.
dj | 6:47 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
B Singh - well said, thank you. I thought this as well, but my cultural identity
does not allow me to be an expert as you are.
What | 7:02 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
It's not a religious symbol for a young girl. The culture thing can be in
her home our out of school. It doesn't need to be in school. It's
amazing to get around rules people will pull anything out of thier hat. If that
doesn't work then they scream discimination. Just conform. This individual
identiy thing is out of control.
Dress Standards | 7:08 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
I know at my kid's school, the dress standards are sent home every year. If
this really were something religious or cultural (and from other readers
comments it appears it may not be), wouldn't the best course of action be
to read the dress policy FIRST and then TALK to school officials about making an
exception. . .rather than showing up in school with a fait accompli? But of
course, that way you wouldn't be disciplined--and get your name and picture
in the newspaper.
mtymouse | 7:15 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
I agree with "Let's just drop all rules"--anybody could claim
culture, religious reasons, etc. for tattooing themselves, wearing their pants
down to their thighs, coloring their hair some ridiculous color, and so on, and
so on. If she wants a nose ring, let her wear it at home. It seems like kids
run the schools now (or their parents who are stuck in a time warp)--all on the
argument for freedom of expression, speech, or whatever they can dream up.
Re: no symbols at school | 7:25 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
If regligious symbons shouldn't be worn in K-12, we should outlaw CTR rings
and crucifixes as well
free or not free that is the Q | 7:27 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
The problem is, if groups can state that it's discrimination then I suppose
it's also discrimination for people to express themselves freely by having
the same piercings. Organizations such as schools, need to either allow it
purely on freedoms of the country or DISALLOW it and stick with it and say RULES
ARE RULES but this whole two sided business in the world WILL NOT WORK!
Glad to hear | 7:36 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Bountiful has it all figured out. This is ridiculous. What can we expect from a
town that considers scones haute cuisine.
Evets | 7:41 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
I must agree with the above posters that cultural symbols such as crosses, CTR
rings, and piercing should NOT be allowed. None of these are required by
religion even though they may be popular in the culture.
BTW: I too remember a soldier in the US Army that was a Sikh. He was also allowed to wear his hair long and wear a turban. Sikhs have a long history of being great warriors. There are some great stories from WWII about the fact that the Germans hating to guard Sikh soldiers. Seems that the Sikh soldiers always escaped and the guards were always found dead.
BTW: I too remember a soldier in the US Army that was a Sikh. He was also allowed to wear his hair long and wear a turban. Sikhs have a long history of being great warriors. There are some great stories from WWII about the fact that the Germans hating to guard Sikh soldiers. Seems that the Sikh soldiers always escaped and the guards were always found dead.
dholder.... | 7:51 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
If culture isn't a right to be expressed at school as stated in the
article, then all expressions need to be removed from all students, including
the dominant one.
Having said that, the school has the right to make and enforce a dress code.
Having said that, the school has the right to make and enforce a dress code.
SLC gal | 7:59 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Look at Native Americans. The argument could be made that they be allowed to
wear a headdress to school becuase it's their culture, but they'd be
asked to remove it becuase most schools dont allow hats.
To Anon 5:55 | 7:59 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Crosses and CTR rings would be banned - if ALL necklaces, pins, and rings were
banned. In case you didn't read the entire article, the nose ring was not
banned because it was religious in nature.
You say there should be no exceptions - well the school district policy against piercings other than ears is being applied completely without exception, so what's your point? Your standard would create a system with exceptions - everyone allowed to wear pins, necklaces and rings, except those wanting even an unobtrusive, culturally acceptable symbol of faith.
You say there should be no exceptions - well the school district policy against piercings other than ears is being applied completely without exception, so what's your point? Your standard would create a system with exceptions - everyone allowed to wear pins, necklaces and rings, except those wanting even an unobtrusive, culturally acceptable symbol of faith.
America | 8:00 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
This is America, learn to live by our rules. We cannot accomodate every
cultural practice. There have to be standards of behavior in schools which
everyone must embrace. All this political correctness is aggravating and
offensive to me.
Indo-American | 8:06 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
When did we cease to be just proud Americans first and foremost. Where did the
melting pot disappear to. I'm not a Welsh-American, I'm a proud
American citizen. Wales is the land of my birth but America is my home. I am
an American and grateful to this country for all the opportunties it has
afforded me. Get over it and take the nose ring out at school, wear it at home
or in the community.
Interesting | 8:21 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
""I was sure they were going to come around," she said. "I
couldn't believe they would deny a girl her culture like
that.""
Is Bountiful Jr. High in India or America?
Is Bountiful Jr. High in India or America?
A Sikh Man | 8:22 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
This is complete nonsense! I am a Sikh and NO WHERE in the Sikh religion does
it say one should have a nose piercing. This girl should learn more about
Sikhism before making bogus claims about discrimination. Nose piercings are
just cultural. Similarly, there are a lot of women in the US that have their
ears pierced. That does not mean that ear piercings are a Christian tenant.
This is discrimination | 8:24 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
If it's okay to put them in your ears what is the difference if she puts it
on her nose? You are treating one set of people differently from others in this
case. All of you in Bountiful, get a life and leave this non mormon girl alone.
Yes, she is not like you, too bad. She may even be a Democrat? Lions and Tigers
and Bears, Oh MY! Does the school also have a rule about what finger one can put
a ring on? If it is a CTR ring, can you put it on your nose? This is America,
not West Jordan. I'm sure Chris Buttars will have something to say about
this, and his wife Gayle, of the Eagle Foram Talaban.
Respect | 8:28 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Living outside of the Davis school district, I have always greatly respected
that district for the way they do things. I have always wished my kids could
attend that district. This is just one more reason I respect the district. It
is ridiculous to think that this girl needs to express her so called religious
expression by wearing this nose-ring. The out lying consequences are negative
and many. She has every right to wear the jewerly after school.
Culture Confusion | 8:29 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
The girl is mistaking her culture with that of her ancestors in India. Her
culture is the American culture.
I'm sure that all of us, whatever our ethnic background, had ancestors whose cultural practices would not be acceptable in today's America.
As they say, when in Rome...
I'm sure that all of us, whatever our ethnic background, had ancestors whose cultural practices would not be acceptable in today's America.
As they say, when in Rome...
Ema | 8:29 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Personally, I feel this dress code is outdated. Nose piercings have become very
common in the last five or so years. They are no longer a symbol of rebellion,
just a fashion statement similar to pierced ears. And if ear piercings are
allowed why not nose piercings? Perhaps an updated rule could say that one
facial piercing is allowed if you don't want students covered in piercings.
I know of a couple new elementary school teachers who have nose piercings, but
they teach in Salt Lake where the dress codes are apparently more modern.
re:glad to hear | 8:32 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
yeah Bountiful is predominately white mormon and very conservative but where do
you get your info. about scones? Sounds like somebody has an axe to grind.
Anonymous | 8:32 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Just don't wear the nose ring during school. Kinda simple.
Mike | 8:37 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Hey kid, get over yourself.
Bobby | 8:43 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
How in the world did this become part or HER culture anyway? She was born and
raised in the US. Not India. My ancestors are from Western Europe. But my
culture is American. Her mother is American. She doesn't even live with
her father who came from another culture. I have to ask again how this is
really any part of HER culture? This was a simple choice that she made nothing
more.
Pure and simple | 8:44 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Bountiful Junior High is engaged in state-enforced religious discrimination.
RE: Ema | 8:52 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
this isnt about fashion. Camisoles and short short short shorts and skirts are
common too. so are boys wearing girl pants that they cant pull up over their
butts. Should we allow all this because our own culture is going down the
tank?
Anonymous | 9:28 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
lol@ the CTR and crosses not being worn to school.
geedub | 9:36 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Whether she likes it or not her culture is American. If she wants to be Indian
she should move to India. If you want to be a success, in ANY COUNTRY, you have
to assimilate. That includes dress, language, etc. To allow her to have a nose
ring because of her cultural heritage and yet deny someone else because of
their's is DISCRIMINATION. To deny everyone is not discrimination.
Moved to Maryland | 9:49 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
It sounds as if this family is trying to get some negative publicity thrown at
the Mormon church through the guise of a school districts dress code policy. In
my school district in Maryland, children are not allowed to wear flip flops, the
shorts or skirts must be long enough that when their hands are at their side,
the clothing is no higher than their longest finger. They are a also not
allowed to wear hats, except on silly hat day, when they pay $1.00 to the school
charity fund that helps needy families that attend that school. Certain jewlrey
is also not allowed for safety purposes. Here the predominant religion is
catholic and NOBODY claims catholic radicalism for these policies. Stop making
every problem that happens in Utah about Mormons. Its just common sense.
Anonymous | 9:51 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Let's ban CTR rings and jewelry. While this stuff isn't my thing, I
do not see why an accommodation can't be made.
Goofball School Rules | 10:07 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
When I was in school, the authorities were in a flap about long hair. Now
it's nose rings. It's beyond me why they get so caught up in these
picky little rules. I think body piercings are a trifle weird-looking, but
really, who CARES if a student has a nose ring? Surely, there are bigger issues
to focus on.
School is for Learning | 10:14 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Not for public expression.
The examples of exceptions made previously are for people who are dedicated to a 24 hour lifestyle, not just choosing one form of public expression, and in this case incorrectly.
Some people choose to think of themselves as special and live above ther rules, and then claim discrimination. This only hurts those out there that are truely discriminated.
Now, take the ring out of your nose, and go get an education. Dad, take this opportunity to be a real dad, and teach your daughter how the world works. Not just give support from New York in an attempt pretend you care...
The examples of exceptions made previously are for people who are dedicated to a 24 hour lifestyle, not just choosing one form of public expression, and in this case incorrectly.
Some people choose to think of themselves as special and live above ther rules, and then claim discrimination. This only hurts those out there that are truely discriminated.
Now, take the ring out of your nose, and go get an education. Dad, take this opportunity to be a real dad, and teach your daughter how the world works. Not just give support from New York in an attempt pretend you care...
Interesting | 10:14 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
I thought the school did things pretty well. They contacted the interfaith
round table to ensure that it wasn't religious in nature before they denied
the request. They then permitted her to wear a transparent stud. They
accommodated the fact that it was a new piercing and even allowed her to wear a
stud so long as it was transparent. Smart move. If the whole point was
something religious, then a transparent ring would work. The school just
ensured that she wasn't doing it for fashionable reasons.
Tired of this | 10:42 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
I'm getting sick and tired of this kind of stuff. DO NOT BEND SCHOOL
DISTRICT. DO NOT ALLOW THIS GIRL BACK UNTIL SHE COMPLIES BY THE RULES. SHE CAN
CHOOSE TO GO SOMEWEHRE ELSE.
To LDS Haters | 10:48 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
The school will gladly ban CTR nose rings. That is the dress code. This is not
about religion or religious expression.
To Pure and Simple | 10:48 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
"Bountiful Junior High is engaged in state-enforced religious
discrimination"
and I'm all for it. Glad I live in Bountiful where we have some standards.
and I'm all for it. Glad I live in Bountiful where we have some standards.
Good! NO EXCEPTIONS? | 10:50 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
OK, kiddies AND teachers.
NO nose piercings. NO CTR rings. NO WWJD jewelry. NO big giant ear holes.
OR....as stated by "Lets just drop all rules....", let 'em do anything they want. If there's no rules, they can come to school naked.
Frankly, in about 15 years, we're going to have a group of young adults with nasty holes in their face, and saggy empty huge ear holes.
I say it serves 'em right.
NO nose piercings. NO CTR rings. NO WWJD jewelry. NO big giant ear holes.
OR....as stated by "Lets just drop all rules....", let 'em do anything they want. If there's no rules, they can come to school naked.
Frankly, in about 15 years, we're going to have a group of young adults with nasty holes in their face, and saggy empty huge ear holes.
I say it serves 'em right.
Mary | 10:54 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
So why do other girls pierce their noses? I think it's the same reason this
girl did hers. I always have to laugh at the excuses kids come up with. They all
look like freaks to me.
People that step on other | 11:01 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
peoples rights just don't get it. If you want to make a rule, that is fine.
But, you can't allow one kind of ring (ear) and not another (nose). So, you
need to make a rule that says no ear rings too, no rings at all. That simple.
Good luck explaining to a US Fed. Court why an ear ring is fine, but a nose ring
is not. Watch your State taxes being spent defending the school district on this
issue to the tune of about $100,000+ all because the nose ring bothers some
teacher or PTA member. It's your tax money. Can't you just be nice and
leave the girl alone? Tisk tisk, she's not like your daughter. I'm
sure her Mother and Father are happy she is not like your daughter too.
Anonymous | 11:02 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
Here what this comes down to, schools will accommodate christian religions but
the sight of something different is banned. Real nice.
I am LDS and I find this situation silly and discriminatory.
If LDS kids can wear CTR rings and Catholics, Protestants and Evangelicals can wear the cross, then this ring falls under the same exemption.
I am LDS and I find this situation silly and discriminatory.
If LDS kids can wear CTR rings and Catholics, Protestants and Evangelicals can wear the cross, then this ring falls under the same exemption.
False | 11:09 a.m. Oct. 28, 2009
If she did it to represent a culture, then she did in fact do it to be
"stylish". That's what style is, a fashion worn in one's
culture. The nose ring should be disallowed.
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Suzannah Pabla was told by her teacher that her nose ring was a violation of Bountiful Junior High's dress code.
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It seems that everyone can claim cultural reasons for wearing just about anything.
Public school is not the forum for individual rights of expression. Are we supposed to bend over backwards because someone wants to wear a kilt?
Try to assimilate to the culture we live in. Know the school rule in advance...they are accessible to everyone. Facial piercings are not a right. She can take it out for the day and wear what she wants at home.
Did you ever think about why most people don't have jr. high kids with facial piercings? It is because it is outside the norm.
Nice try.