Deseret News | Lawmakers consider sex-ed changes

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Lawmakers consider sex-ed changes

Go ahead | 8:03 p.m. Oct. 21, 2009

and blame the school when that responsibility really belongs in the home. But since he didn't get that info in the home, why doesn't he just ask his doctor? Some people . . .

A Father | 8:21 p.m. Oct. 21, 2009

And this is only in Utah right?

really? | 8:40 p.m. Oct. 21, 2009

Our kids will learn it anyways why dont us parents teach them

Comments continue below

I agree | 8:40 p.m. Oct. 21, 2009

Parents need to take responsibility for these things. And whose to say this man's parents didn't and he doesn't remember because at the time he wasn't listening?

Parent's Guide | 6:08 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

The LDS church puts out excellent guides: (1) A Parent's Guide and (2) For the Strength of Youth.

There are also many excellent talks by General Authorities on the subject. They have always placed the responsibility on the parents.

Fathers and mothers should have frequent talks with their maturing children about these subjects, including the real happiness that comes through true intimacy (much deeper than sexual intimacy), how to stay pure until one is ready for marriage, why that is important, the true human nature (that urges are to be suppressed and can be mastered), the dangers of pornography (today's most rampant drug, that chemically alters the brain), etc.

Parents who do this in love and who also teach about the plan of salvation through faith, repentance, and constant efforts to keep the commandments (generally encapsulated in love god, and love your neighbor) and who take time with their children to communicate and enjoy wholesome recreational activities will find their children have happier lives and will establish more stable relationships (including sexual relationships) in marriage later on.

These are time-tested values based on both reason and revelation. I invite and encourage parents to this end!

Anonymous | 7:36 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Full and complete information needs to be provided to take the mystery out of human sexuality. People need to be educated and informed. That way they can make informed decisions. This not only goes for kids, but their parents too. Too many adults don't understand the human body much better than their kids. Stop hiding it. If you think you can control sexual passion by hiding, it won't work. It never has in the history of mankind, even in conservative societies. More focus should be on preventing negative outcomes such as unwanted pregnancies which lead to abortion.

Anne | 8:03 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

So a thirty year old man has questions about birth control and he wants to blame his high school? I'm with the poster who said he should talk to his doctor. Or maybe he should read a book. Are we really so dependant on the government to answer our every need and/or question??

Robert | 8:18 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

If Planned Parenthood needs to keep itself busy, why doesn't it work on educating parents, not their children. Their position should be that it's a parent's responsibility to teach sex education in the home, and they should gear their programs accordingly.

And if a teacher finds that twelve-year-old students are becoming parents, why take that out on all the other students and their parents? Get Planned Parenthood to work on the parents of the twelve-year-old students.

Anonymous | 8:52 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

When did Sex Ed change from "Why it matters and how to be responsible" to "How to do it?"

We don't all have the same goals about Sex Ed, so how can we expect one program to satisfy all of our expectations.?

Eight's Not Enough? | 9:11 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Utah Eagle Forum President Gayle Ruzicka told the committee the current curriculum is fine. "Let's not ruin what already works," she said.

Gayle Ruzicka is the mother of 12 kids. Apparently a sex education curriculum emphasizing abstinence is working just fine.

Midwest Member | 9:18 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Information on this, and many other subjects, can be found at his local library, via books, periodicals, or access to a computer and the internet. It is always best to seek a variety of sources when making big decisions. Even if this man's school had given him the best birth control information available, it would no longer be current by the time he was 30.

All 4 Parents | 9:51 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Responsibility rests with the parents. This belongs with the family, not with the schools. My mother explained things to me after we had "the talk" at school my elementary school. To be perfectly honest it disgusted me at the time.

Tami | 9:57 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Aren't we having a hard enough time teaching the three R's? How about if we stick to "education"? The birds and the bees have been around a lot longer than our schools. I think people can figure things out for themselves if we let them. This is not the responsibility of our education system.

Suburbs of SLC | 10:01 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

I listened to the committee hearing online. Every representative and senator who spoke agreed and emphasized that it is the job of a parent to teach this information. The problem comes from parents who are choosing not to take on this responsibility, and the result is pregnant teenagers and teens with STDs who are unaware they even have one.

Beyond that, what the school system really needs is detailed, current, and accurate education based on science. Dr. Grossman used, as an example, the immaturity of the cervix while girls are maturing, making them many times more susceptible to HPV. How many parents are well-versed in this and likely to teach it to their daughters?

Chris Buttars, who chaired the committee, kept going back to morality, and asking why morality wasn't part of the curriculum. That is the area that belongs to parents, although this conservative, limited-government champion, disagrees. But the dangers and risks and opportunities to avoid or identify these dangers and risks if you do choose sex needs to be taught.

Some advice for the girlfriend.. | 10:04 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

If I were the girlfriend of the 30 yr. old guy I would run the other way because that is a definite flag. Not the fact that he doesn't know about contraception etc. but the fact that he didn't get the info. in school and is whining about it now that he's thirty? Yikes I say! Go talk to your Dr., you're a grown man!

Anonymous | 10:06 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Dr. Miriam Grossman's presentation was very revealing. She is right that the goal of Planned Parenthood and other similar organizations is sexual revolution rather than helping kids be healthy.

Utah's Planned Parenthood Web site has as many appalling descriptions and images on it as any other office in another state. Look it up yourself. It talks all about how sexuality is whatever you want it to be. Do whatever is pleasurable, etc. The Utah chapter has links and recommendations to national sites, which are even worse. Utah's Health Department even links to these Web sites.

No organizations like PP should be allowed to do anything in our public schools. If their work is so important, then donate money to them so they can reach kids outside of school, though reaching parents is a better idea.

Anonymous | 10:13 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

The committee's action came following a presentation by Los Angeles author and psychiatrist Marion Grossman. She displayed clips from Web sites by Planned Parenthood affiliates around the nation, including a photo of a girl kissing another girl and stick figures showing sexual positions. "Is this what you want for the children of this state?" Grossman said.

However, Bird said Utah's Planned Parenthood affiliate doesn't have such Web sites. "Our Planned Parenthood of Utah is definitely its own unique affiliate," she said. "You can't say we do the same things Planned Parenthood of Texas does."

Once you sign the deal and they do put the "lesbian action" on their website...then what?

These people have an agenda.

One "planned parenthood" office back east was caught THIS YEAR telling a minor "don't tell me your age or you won't be able to get an abortion" and did not report to authorities that it was the girls mothers boyfriend who got her pregnant!!

You could tell from the audio that it was not the first time this lady had given this type of advice.

They think ANYTHING goes including covering up rape and underage abortions!!!

PracticalUt | 10:18 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Plain and simple-pick up a copy of Mens Health magazine or Play-boy and learn about the real world using your common sense.Or go on line and learn all about the birds and bee's.Get out of your shell!

Sasha Pachev | 10:33 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Anything wrong with having 12 kids? We have 6 and we hope for more. We'll take 12 if the Lord sends that many. We do not take welfare in any form, and even if something happened to my ability to provide we would die before we accept it. We do not even strain the public school system as we home school our kids.
To those who advocate artificially reduced fertility - religion and spiritual issues aside, have you thought of who is going to take care of you when you are 80? One or two kids is not enough, they can die early or turn out to be bums. Even three will not be enough. The third one that survives and is not a bum will be taxed to death to take care of those who chose to have no kids or only one or two.

The best change | 10:33 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

. . . to the curriculum would be to ABOLISH it completely. The state has no business whatever "educating" my kids on a topic so sensitive and subject to miscommunication and abuse.

Notwithstanding paleoliberal rants to the contrary, there is no "right" answer, when it comes to teaching sex. What is right for me and my kids would undoubtedly be shouted down by most of the posters above. And ANY "education" involving bananas and condoms would be WAY out of line for my kids.

So why should I be allowed to choose what their kids are taught? And why would anyone agree they should be allowed to choose what mine are taught?

Let's just keep the government out of the sex business entirely.

Frankly, it's WAY beyond both the education industry's and the government's competence.

FACTs | 10:35 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Our schools have alot of lousy teachers who can't get kids to pass basic tests.

How do you think they will do with a sensitive subject like sex education?

Do you really want their "perspective" put into your kids heads?

Kids certainly need to be taught about sex and the abstinence is the safest and best way to remain healthy and not ruin your life.

That said parents should also educate their kids about the perils of not being abstinent ie. STD's, unwanted pregnancy, potential loss of educational opportunities, and how pregnancy is prevented.

Planned parenthood would rather have kids sexual active and involved in adult behaviors--it is part of the their grand plan for "sexualization of our youth". They will teach them about basically everything deviant that kids do not really need to know at this age.

Once your kids are "sexualized" then they are much more tolerant of all the fringe and deviant sexual behaviors of today. Then deviant sexual groups will be able to pass their legislative agenda that is basically anti-traditional family.

Yes all of this is no accident. Just be aware of the agenda.

hey we can just sit around | 10:41 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

and let them learn from all the teachers and seminary guys facing prison ...maybe this will deter the naughty!

Anonymous | 10:41 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

My local legislator just sent out a message saying it belongs in the home. I agree that this should be taught in the home except what happens when it isn't taught in the home?

We can't legislate parenting (as much as we'd like to).

What then?

Rita | 10:42 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Duh. Maybe the state SHOULD be teaching the FOUR R's: Reading, (w)riting, 'rithmatic, and RESPONSIBILITY.

Anonymous | 10:43 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

It's not the responsibility of the schools to teach kids where to find birth control. End of story.

And come on, the guy is 30 years old! Is doing a quick google search too difficult if he's too embarrassed to talk to somebody about it?

To the red state: | 11:18 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

You seriously think that planned parenthood would be teaching sex ed in schools? That is fear campaigning. This additional instruction would still have to be utahn approved and parent consent signed I'm sure. When did education ever hurt anyone? The more informed our kids are the better choices they will make.

Telling your kids, "just don't do it" is not good enough. Has anyone ever had a teen that followed every instruction their parent gave them? Their friends have more influence than you do. They need real information. You can't just continue to keep your youth in a bubble and pretend that things like sex and alcohol (zion curtain law) don't exist.

To every parent who has had a pregnant teen who was taught nothing or abstinence only with no further information, I have no pity for you and lots of pity for your poor child.

I'll teach my kids that abstinence is the ideal until older, but also teach everything they need to know about contraception and STDs. It's your poor uneducated kids who will continue to roll the dice with their reproductive and family future. Just hopefully not with my kid.

in support of | 11:28 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

detailed sex education in schools. In an ideal world, no teen would have pre-marital sex. But we do not live in the celestial kingdom yet and many good, decent boys and girls fornicate. There are examples of a few young men in the Book of Mormon who came from good families who had some moral problems (that were later repented of). I do not think a bad choice should have to be suffered for for the rest of your life through a pregnancy or std. EDUCATION is ALWAYS the answer. My parents never would have dreamed of teaching me what a condom is and what to do with it. Thank goodness my health teacher did, or I would have been a teenage mother. And yes, I'm LDS and lived in a typical LDS neighborhood and ward. God loves us and wants us to be happy. When we do not follow his commandments, we are unhappy, but pregnancy and stds affect EVERYBODY around us, not just ourselves.

Sex ed has been around | 11:35 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

in schools for nearly fifty years (my oldest daughter is 48 and SEICUS material was being shown in her first grade class) and things have certainly NOT gotten better in our society. Unwed pregnancy is now acceptable and the rates are out of sight. Sexually transmitted diseases likewise.
I don't think MORE school sex ed is the answer. Like most government ideas, it doesn't seem too effective.
And, truth to tell, I've not talked to many teens, even very young ones, who don't know what causes babies!
Our society is so sexually fixiated that the kids think all this behavior is cool and being young and foolish, most of them don't believe that anything bad can happen to them.
When we turned from the idea of sexual morality to the idea of education-based control of behavior, things began to fall apart. What is needed is a return to moral behavior--hard when you've been taught that there are no absolutes anymore and that "doing your own thing" no matter what the cost is right.

And as for the comment on the size on someone else's family--you are out of line!

Irony | 11:50 a.m. Oct. 22, 2009

I've always thought it funny what the Ostrich leaves up when she sticks her head in the sand. Couldn't apply more to this topic.

Henry Drummond | 12:17 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

"Let's not change what works."

Has Gayle Ruzuka actually looked at the percentage of unplanned teenage pregnancies in Utah versus other states?

It ain't working dear.

Mark Lane | 12:50 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

All this bill would do is make it possible for an additional sex-ed course to be taught. No one would be allowed in the class without full consent of both student and parent. Total control is maintained by the family. If you don't want your child to attend -- they won't. So all these comments saying "school shouldn't be teaching this to our kids" are not relevant to this article because it won't be a required class. Most of the people who say this don't even want the existing sex-ed material taught.

The curriculum would be developed by the state school board, not planned parenthood. It would then be made available to any schools who choose to use it. All it would be is a few extra chapters as a supplement to the existing sex-ed textbook. To say sex-ed causes sexual activity is like saying drivers-ed causes car wrecks.

Please support this bill, maybe not for your kids, but for the "trailer park" kids if you must. It will not hurt you in any way. This is about the least expensive government program ever proposed.

The Talk | 12:55 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

From my experience parents hate giving "the talk" and kids hate hearing it. What they do learn is from peers which is most of the time very misguided. Why not learn it from respected adults such as teachers.

I had friends back in high school who got into bad positions because they didn't know what was going on. It was ridiculous and could have been prevented if they had only known what it was they were trying not to do.

Steve (the actuary) | 12:58 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Mrs. Ruzika abstinence only education is working? Then why are STD contraction rates skyrocketing? AIDS contraction is up, chlymidia is up, gohnnoreah is up. Because obviously the current curriculum is working. All the sinners will have their private bits wither up and fall off like mrs Ruzika would like.

Mom in OK | 1:04 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Heaven help me to keep an open relationship with my children as they grow up, so they know they can come to me with any question, and I will be COMFORTABLE enough to explain the answers over time in a way that is appropriate for their age.
This is not the schools problem. and this guy is an idiot for being a 30 year old, whining about what his H.S. didn't teach him. HELLO, go to a docs office and pic up a few pamphlets. Be responsible.
My Elementary school taught me a "maturation program" that taught me what our bodies do when they change from child to adult. That is it. FINE. GOOD. Enough info.
In High School Health I learned about Human reproduction and STD's. Mention was made of contraception. But it wasn't until I went to my OBGYN's office and looked at ALL THE pamphlets and LEARNED about all the options out there.
I think I turned out okay. I don't need Public Schools filling my kids minds with their version of appropriate sexual content. That is my job to educate them as they grow.

Pagan | 1:37 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

'Change to sex-ed curriculum?'

Only if your smart.

Abstinence only classes have failed. Many studies show these kids are just as likely to engage in sex as those who are actually taught sex education.

Want an example? Look at Sarah Palin's daughter. She got pregnant before marriage, and Sarah Palin preaches nothing BUT abstinence.

If you want something that works, perhaps you should talk to your children about important things and make them informed.

Not a victim.

John | 1:52 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

There have probably been a few changes in the contraception since this guy graduated 12 years ago. The Doc has the (current) info you seek.

MysticUt | 1:56 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

I once heard an old statement that whenever a child is born in this world it somewhat, in a very small way, degrades life for everyone else who is already here.Think about that with an open mind.

Voice of Reason | 2:40 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

OK, let's look at the ACTUAL CDC statistics for Utah. Out of all fifty states, Utah ranks as follows:

Syphilis: 41st
Gonorrhea: 43rd
Chlamydia: 45th

Teen Pregnancy: 34th
Unwed Pregnancy: 50th - Dead last.

So, while there's obviously work to be done in Utah, it pales - PALES - in comparison to sexual education problems in most of the rest of the country. Utah is apparently doing exceptionally well in educating its children in responsible sexual behavior. Obviously, this strongly supports the fact that teaching actual moral values - which Utah does second to none - along with the explicit nuts & bolts makes the biggest difference of all.

Anonymous | 2:57 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

...and this guy can't google "contraception" on his computer...PLEASE! Are we supposed to feel sorry for this guy, or is the media just trying to "overexaggerate" a problem that doesn't exist.

listener | 3:51 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Not long ago I listened to an interview with a former worker of planned parenthood. She admitted that whenever they were allowed to do presentations for "safe sex" the number of teenagers coming into their clinics for abortions always increased. Follow the money. . .

Cindy | 4:17 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

To listener@3:51, you have it backward. If teens and others would take planned parenthoods safe sex recommendations, planned parenthood would be out of business. They are actively trying to put themselves out of business. They are attempting to help others out of very difficult situations, even though we (you and I) may not like or agree with their methods.

Suburbs of SLC | 5:05 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

One of the legislators recommended requiring students to take a test at the end of the course; students who don't take the course still take the test, ensuring they received proper education on avoiding or recognizing the symptoms of STDs, how contraceptives work and what the likelihood of them being successful, etc.

JAYEG | 6:57 p.m. Oct. 22, 2009

Here's a suggestion for a segment of the sex education curriculum.

Teach children the way of the wolves.

If you can't feed 'em...don't breed 'em.

It is a difficult proposition to come up with a solution for teaching sex education when so many of these children are raised within a faith wherein it's leaders instruct young couples not to wait to begin producing children...regardless of whether they can actually PROVIDE for those children.

They are taught that it will bring God's displeasure upon them if they presume to wait until he's finished college and a job with a decent salary (minus the mandatory 10% tithe on his gross income) and the couple can afford suitable lodgings.

Voice of Reason | 3:36 p.m. Oct. 23, 2009

JAYEG,

Where in the WORLD do you get your information!? If you're talking about LDS leaders, they do NOT tell couples to start having children "even if they can't provide for them." That's just ridiculous. There's a difference between advising newlyweds to chose having a child instead of a brand-new car or big house, and advising them to have a child before they can adequately feed, clothe and house that child, something leaders do NOT do.

And this may come as a shock, but it IS possible to responsibly have a child "before you've finished college."

Suburbs of SLC | 4:07 p.m. Oct. 23, 2009

@Voice of Reason
That's not true. I've had (multiple) local leaders tell me that , because having families is the most important commandment, it is irresponsible for us not to conceive a child on the honeymoon. I've never heard such advice at, say, conference, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Especially for women; completing college before having children is especially frowned upon for them.

Voice of Reason | 7:28 a.m. Oct. 26, 2009

You say you've had "multiple local leaders" tell you to "conceive a child on the honeymoon", which doesn't sound credible. I have been in the Church all my life, as a newlywed and in leadership, and never - not once - have I EVER seen a leader "tell" someone to get pregnant on the honeymoon. I HAVE seen leaders advise couples not to wait, which is true - we should not put off children for worldly material reasons beyond providing for them. But ultimately, the decision is the parent's and theirs alone - ALL leaders I know have ALSO emphasized that.

You've also committed a logical fallacy. Even if true, just because a leader may have advised to "conceive on the honeymoon", you automatically assume that means they are telling you to have a child before you're ready to provide for it. Truth be told, few LDS newlyweds are unable to provide materially for a child when they get married. If they are, they should strongly consider putting off marriage until they can.

Voice of Reason | 11:33 a.m. Oct. 26, 2009

Correction: I don't believe we are counseled in the Church to put off marriage until we can support children - I was probably wrong about that.

But I seriously have never seen a leader counsel a newlywed couple that it's wrong to avoid conception during the honeymoon. That's basically saying "don't use birth control", and leaders aren't out there counselling members to just "not use birth control."

really? | 2:33 p.m. Oct. 26, 2009

"lets not ruin what already works"? really?

If abstinence only sex education is working so well then why do we have so many uneducated teenagers?
Why is utah 7th in the nation for teenage pregnancy?

It's because its not working- kids are doing it without protection. It's better to be safe than sorry. And no teen is going to come to their parent about condoms or birth control.

Its not just the "bad" kids that are getting pregnant either- its the seminary presidents and the drama kids.

Take care of this problem.

Voice of Reason | 4:44 p.m. Oct. 26, 2009

According to the CDC, Utah is not "7th in the nation for teenage pregnancy." Utah is actually:

Teen Pregnancy: 34th
Unwed Pregnancy: 50th - Dead last.

That's from my earlier post on here. Utah is nearly dead last in the Big 3 STDs as well. In reality, Utah is doing something exceptionally RIGHT in sex ed, or more accurately the sexual and moral values our children are being taught at home.

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