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One-two punch: 40,000 Utahns lost jobs and health insurance in 2008
58 comments | Read story
one of the group | 1:45 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
As a member of the unemployed, no insurance group, I beg my State Reps:
DO NOT FORCE THIS "REFORM" ON US!
There are issues, but this is a ruse to take away more than my job. I do not what to be a slave to the Gov't.
Health insurance is not any different than a loaf of bread, or transportation, or housing. IT IS NOT THE JOB OR DUTY OF THE GOV'T TO PROVIDE THIS FOR ME OR ANY ONE ELSE.
I am very sincere in my effort to not have my country further weakened by pandering to the weak and desperate. I have written my reps and told them no. The response is mostly "but we have to do something"....WHY?
Life is to learn, grow and sometimes suffer, so why do they always try to fix what is not theirs to fix? If they care so much then come up with solutions that come from individual people (without coercion), NOT Gov't social programs.
We all live, we all die, and no matter what the circumstances we should EACH do our best with what we have been given. Life is Great!
DO NOT FORCE THIS "REFORM" ON US!
There are issues, but this is a ruse to take away more than my job. I do not what to be a slave to the Gov't.
Health insurance is not any different than a loaf of bread, or transportation, or housing. IT IS NOT THE JOB OR DUTY OF THE GOV'T TO PROVIDE THIS FOR ME OR ANY ONE ELSE.
I am very sincere in my effort to not have my country further weakened by pandering to the weak and desperate. I have written my reps and told them no. The response is mostly "but we have to do something"....WHY?
Life is to learn, grow and sometimes suffer, so why do they always try to fix what is not theirs to fix? If they care so much then come up with solutions that come from individual people (without coercion), NOT Gov't social programs.
We all live, we all die, and no matter what the circumstances we should EACH do our best with what we have been given. Life is Great!
Anonymous | 1:55 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
If Hussein was amazing enough to be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize after a
couple weeks in office, isn't it time we see results from his spendathon?
We're paying $1 Billion a day in interest alone because of his poor
decisions, and we have what to show for it? Um...... Get out.
Comments continue below
re: Confused | 2:03 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
You clearly have never had to purchase health insurance on your own.
My wife is self-imployed. The company I used to work for had outragous prices on health insurance once you added on more than yourself. We looked to purchase insurance on the free-market as you say and it was even more expensive. In the end, it was actually cheaper for me to change jobs, with a slight decrease in yearly salary but better health benefits.
Bottom line is health industry costs are skyrocketing, and that is an road with no end in site.
My wife is self-imployed. The company I used to work for had outragous prices on health insurance once you added on more than yourself. We looked to purchase insurance on the free-market as you say and it was even more expensive. In the end, it was actually cheaper for me to change jobs, with a slight decrease in yearly salary but better health benefits.
Bottom line is health industry costs are skyrocketing, and that is an road with no end in site.
Gary | 2:10 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
Exactly! It started 30 years ago when companies started to offer to pay for
insurance to entice the best workers into their companies and it would also
reduce the workers tax liability by getting paid less where the company pays for
the insurance. Step forward 30 years later, everyone depends on the company to
pay for insurance not realizing what a farce this has become. We need to go back
to the days where we paid for insurance without expecting a company to offer it.
And the states need to change the rules allowing people in the state to look for
insurance in other states. Right now, the states control that and we the people
dont realize this. Health reform is needed, and public option is a good start in
that direction and then wean ourselves off of depending on the company to pay
for it. Google Health Savings Accounts (HSA) and look at how much better off we
would all be if we used this method. Health care today with insurance companies
is a problem because they want to make a profit. Government does not look to
make a profit and can do as good of a job.
Jann | 2:13 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
COBRA is so expensive that one who gets laid off probably cant afford it to
begin with.
Stupid Insurance World | 2:15 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
When you get let go from a company that has an expensive plan, most people
can't afford to pay both sides of the premium. What the insurance companies
need to do is provide a cheap alternative to Cobra when someone loses their job.
Most people need catastrophic care and basic prescription drug coverage while
they are looking for another job. This type of insurance could cost less than
$50 a month and could keep people from going without.
But once again, most rational people understand the problems in health insurance. But of government is trying to making a bigger mess out of our great health care system.
But once again, most rational people understand the problems in health insurance. But of government is trying to making a bigger mess out of our great health care system.
Anonymous | 2:41 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
If Obama was a white with a name and linage going back to Europe, would
Anonymous | 1:55 p.m be using Hussein like it were a pejorative?
To Anonymous | 2:42 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
Bailout started with Bush. Not Bush's fault however, too many fat cats
eatting the pie before any can trickle away.
Obama is | 3:05 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
the biggest mistake to our country in the last. . . EVER. I hope you liberals
all get laid off. You voted this clown into office now reap your rewards. . .
Anonymous | 3:06 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
One of the group. Where do you get the idea health care would be free. You must
not be listening too well or reading. Health care as to be paid for by us. All
this reform might do is eliminate middlemen who add nothing to your health care
but added costs. The other part is by creating a larger pool that pays, we can
reduce coasts and make health affordable for all Americans. Notice I wrote
affordable and not free? In free market economics this is called economics of
scale.
If you should go to an emergency room with no insurance, we will get stuck paying your bills.
Thank god for Obama. I'm unemployed. I collect unemployment and I finished two classes in Cisco networking and network demonstration. Obama opened up training to the unemployed. I start three new classes this week.
I use VA and I love my government option. I get treated better at VA than the health care I paid for while I was working.
If you should go to an emergency room with no insurance, we will get stuck paying your bills.
Thank god for Obama. I'm unemployed. I collect unemployment and I finished two classes in Cisco networking and network demonstration. Obama opened up training to the unemployed. I start three new classes this week.
I use VA and I love my government option. I get treated better at VA than the health care I paid for while I was working.
Anonymous | 3:10 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
How is that Obama economy working out for you so far? If you listen to the news,
the recession is all but over, so like magic more jobs should be coming your way
very soon I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Don't worry though,
the Dems are working on a healthcare package for you. If you can just wait and
hold on for 4 years, (2 election cycles) even if you don't have a job, you
should have healthcare. Then you will be set for life.
Liberty | 3:25 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
Health insurance for the masses was fought for and won by unions years ago.
Before then no wage-earner had insurance. It was a standard of living issue.
Today, we are scrambling to keep up with the increasing life expectancies and quality of living experienced by Europeans and some Asians. The U.S. is tops in medical technology and pharmacology, and enormous profits are extracted from these markets. But delivering that product to the masses without astronomical cost increases is the problem we now face. Our system favors the supplier, not the consumer.
Countries with lower levels of medical technology are delivering a better product to a much higher portion of their population for a lower cost. Their systems favor the consumer-patient.
The trick now is to somehow increase the benefits to the consumer, while not destroying the structure which has provided so much advancement in research and development. There are a variety of ways of doing this, but the simplest is a public option.
We need stop thinking of the public option as a socialist scheme and take it for what it is, a means of using market forces to transform the entire medical industry.
Today, we are scrambling to keep up with the increasing life expectancies and quality of living experienced by Europeans and some Asians. The U.S. is tops in medical technology and pharmacology, and enormous profits are extracted from these markets. But delivering that product to the masses without astronomical cost increases is the problem we now face. Our system favors the supplier, not the consumer.
Countries with lower levels of medical technology are delivering a better product to a much higher portion of their population for a lower cost. Their systems favor the consumer-patient.
The trick now is to somehow increase the benefits to the consumer, while not destroying the structure which has provided so much advancement in research and development. There are a variety of ways of doing this, but the simplest is a public option.
We need stop thinking of the public option as a socialist scheme and take it for what it is, a means of using market forces to transform the entire medical industry.
Anonymous | 3:28 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
What value is added to your health care by the 20% overhead? Some of this cost
goes to help find ways not to pay for your treatment.
Americans pay the most to be 37th in the world? You wouldn't pay Mercedes prices for a Kia. When its your health care cost to benefit no longer matters to you?
The evil government; the government that rescued that captain off Somalia, runs at 2% overhead. They can exact an injured person under fire in Afghanistan and fly them to Germany.
Our government does a great job doing many things. This is America. If your boat is sinking you call call Glenn Beck and not the Coast Guard if you wish.
Americans pay the most to be 37th in the world? You wouldn't pay Mercedes prices for a Kia. When its your health care cost to benefit no longer matters to you?
The evil government; the government that rescued that captain off Somalia, runs at 2% overhead. They can exact an injured person under fire in Afghanistan and fly them to Germany.
Our government does a great job doing many things. This is America. If your boat is sinking you call call Glenn Beck and not the Coast Guard if you wish.
Steve (the actuary) | 3:28 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
COBRA facts. First of all COBRA is to be no more than 1% increase over your
current premium with the 1% added for administrative costs. However until this
year when you purchased COBRA you were required to pay the full cost of the
premium where your employer used to pay a portion. However for this year because
of the second stimulus package anyone who was laid off will only pay 30% of
their premium until the end of this year. That is why COBRA costs more, you
actually have to pay the whole cost instead of your employer paying most of the
cost.
oh yeah | 3:44 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
Obama's lineage does go back to Europe. Big deal. What does that have to
do with anything. Your bigotry is no more attractive than Anonymous | 1:55 pm.
Stick to the topic or shut up.
@Anonymous 2:41pm | 3:52 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
It's a compliment that someone like "Anonymous 1:55 p.m." thinks
so HIGHLY of our President!
You see, Hussein means "beautiful one". So the more they use it, the more they send their good will to the duly-elected President of our great country.
---------------
Oh, and "one of the group" -- NOTHING has stopped you from starting a health savings account. How much is in yours? How long do you think it would take, for you to save up to pay for a broken leg, emergency heart surgery, or diabetes treatments?
You see, Hussein means "beautiful one". So the more they use it, the more they send their good will to the duly-elected President of our great country.
---------------
Oh, and "one of the group" -- NOTHING has stopped you from starting a health savings account. How much is in yours? How long do you think it would take, for you to save up to pay for a broken leg, emergency heart surgery, or diabetes treatments?
RedShirt | 4:02 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
To "Anonymous | 2:41 p.m." I hate to break this to you, but Obama is
as much white as he is black. He does have ancestors tied to Europe.
Anonymous | 4:12 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
To All Leftist: 3:25 says "We need stop thinking of the public option as a
socialist scheme and take it for what it is, a means of using market forces to
transform the entire medical industry"
Would you care to explain what "Market Forces" are involved in the PUBLIC OPTION, that makes it an instument for controlling healthcare costs? I don't see it.
Would you care to explain what "Market Forces" are involved in the PUBLIC OPTION, that makes it an instument for controlling healthcare costs? I don't see it.
xscribe | 4:14 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
Hilarious! Somehow it's all President Obama's fault, even though the
bailouts and job losses started under the Bush administration. Harken back to
2008, when Bush and McCain both stated the economy was fine. Then the
realization - known or not known - came, and the first of the bailouts.
Now, one anonymous says that we're paying $1 billion a day because of Obama's poor decisions. First of all, I disagree that Obama has made poor decisions. Surprise, surprise! But I'd also bet that figure is false, but I haven't had time to look it up, but I will, as we were already a trillion dollars in debt before Obama even became president.
Another poster says this is the worst president ever. You have a right to your opinion for sure, but we'll let history decide. I'm willing to bet that history will show that W was about as bad as it gets, and only won the presidency because of his name and help from family and friends in the right places. Even Reagan didn't like him when his daddy was VP.
Now, one anonymous says that we're paying $1 billion a day because of Obama's poor decisions. First of all, I disagree that Obama has made poor decisions. Surprise, surprise! But I'd also bet that figure is false, but I haven't had time to look it up, but I will, as we were already a trillion dollars in debt before Obama even became president.
Another poster says this is the worst president ever. You have a right to your opinion for sure, but we'll let history decide. I'm willing to bet that history will show that W was about as bad as it gets, and only won the presidency because of his name and help from family and friends in the right places. Even Reagan didn't like him when his daddy was VP.
In the beginning | 4:27 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
Insurance, by its very nature, is different from other "products" you
purchase. Insurance originally started out as a form of mutual aid among people
of a particular group - for instance, the Masonic Lodge. They knew that,
statistically, a certain number of the group would die, or be in an accident, or
fall ill. For the protection of their families, they pooled their money and used
the pool to pay for the death, medical, and disability costs for those who were
unfortunate enough to fall victim to fate.
When dishonest people created insurance scams and began stealing people's money and failing to pay on legitimate claims, it became clear that regulation was needed. Those who sell insurance are now licensed, and each State regulates insurance companies according to statute.
Long before 30 years ago (sorry Gary), insurance began to make sense for companies to take care of their employees. This idea began, interestingly enough, among unions and employee associations, not as a "perc" offered by management to entice better employees!
So, at its heart, insurance has been and always will be a "socialistic" idea.
But that doesn't mean it's not a good one!
When dishonest people created insurance scams and began stealing people's money and failing to pay on legitimate claims, it became clear that regulation was needed. Those who sell insurance are now licensed, and each State regulates insurance companies according to statute.
Long before 30 years ago (sorry Gary), insurance began to make sense for companies to take care of their employees. This idea began, interestingly enough, among unions and employee associations, not as a "perc" offered by management to entice better employees!
So, at its heart, insurance has been and always will be a "socialistic" idea.
But that doesn't mean it's not a good one!
Anonymous | 4:46 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
Better off being a POLICE DOG at least you will have dental care!!!
aussuu | 4:52 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
To Xscribe:
I do agree that it is not completely presidant Obama's fault but I disagree with obama when he states that this was all droped on him by Bush. The freaking dem's controlled the house and the senate that made the push for an astronmicall stimulus. So yes it is Obama's fault that we are in this mess sence he was on that senate that made that push to put my childeren in debt even though they aren't even old enough to say money let alone know what it is.
I do agree that it is not completely presidant Obama's fault but I disagree with obama when he states that this was all droped on him by Bush. The freaking dem's controlled the house and the senate that made the push for an astronmicall stimulus. So yes it is Obama's fault that we are in this mess sence he was on that senate that made that push to put my childeren in debt even though they aren't even old enough to say money let alone know what it is.
Why | 4:53 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
..is the DN running all these sad health insurance stories all of a sudden? Is
the DN becoming another mouth piece for Obama?
The way it is | 4:54 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
The same people crying about health insurance also think medicare was a bad
idea. I can tell you I thank the Lord every day that we have it. If we did not
have it I would have had to pay for my Father and Mothers health insurance for
the last 10 years and I would not have a penny today. Health insurance with the
public option is a done deal so get over it. The GOP had a chance to do it the
way they wanted to 8+ years ago but they did nothing because they are the
"do nothing" party of the middle class. Sure, the GOP does a lot for
the rich, nothing more. So tuff doodoo to my Republican friends, health
insurance with the public option is a done deal. As sure as the sun will come up
in the morning you can be sure the Democrats will get us health insurance, and
no thanks to the GOP in any way shape or form. Only 20% of the country will call
themselves Republican today! It looks like 20% of the people just have no shame
at all.
Nothing is free! | 4:57 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
I don't get this article. Is it a flaw in the insurance system that the
insurance doesn't pay when it isn't getting paid itself? Really? I
think the biggest flaw in the system is entitlement.
The reason it is so hard to set up a great insurance system is that no one has ever found a way to get something entirely for nothing.
Oh sure, for all the people out there who don't have jobs the government could set up the system so that it taxes everyone who does have jobs more, to make up the difference, but is that not a flawed system?
If someone out there wants to work extra hard, I'd be happy to give up my job, let you work two jobs, and tax you the wage of the one job, to pay for all my living expenses. How about that? What? You say, no. I didn't see that coming. I'm almost in tears that you won't accept this proposal.
The reason it is so hard to set up a great insurance system is that no one has ever found a way to get something entirely for nothing.
Oh sure, for all the people out there who don't have jobs the government could set up the system so that it taxes everyone who does have jobs more, to make up the difference, but is that not a flawed system?
If someone out there wants to work extra hard, I'd be happy to give up my job, let you work two jobs, and tax you the wage of the one job, to pay for all my living expenses. How about that? What? You say, no. I didn't see that coming. I'm almost in tears that you won't accept this proposal.
Anonymous | 5:35 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
@ 4:54 pm
Try to see the big picture, unless your capacity is just too limited. It must be wonderfull living in fairytale land. Do everything you can to stay there, I don't think you are ready for the REAL WORLD.
Try to see the big picture, unless your capacity is just too limited. It must be wonderfull living in fairytale land. Do everything you can to stay there, I don't think you are ready for the REAL WORLD.
too bad | 5:36 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
So what?
Let them pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.
- Karl the Conservative
Let them pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.
- Karl the Conservative
Obama PLAN | 5:41 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
its all part of Obama's plan to see millions un-employed, un-insured so he
can throw himself out there as the hero when he leges bailout money(welfare
bribes) Just say no to Obama Welfare and vote GOP for JOBS!
True | 5:41 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
Hope and change gone bad.
Venom For Obama | 6:17 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
I know it is popular in Utah to HATE President Obama. But he is tackling one of
the third rails in politics - health care - and is trying to do something about
it. While I dislike the approach, that's more that can be said about the
previous administration that was willing to stick its head in the sand and hope
"the market" would solve the problem. The government has destroyed
the "market" for health care over two generations by encouraging
people to believe that their health care is free. As such, individuals
don't challenge the services offered, the prices or ask the tough questions
that we would ask if we were buying a new home theater system.
Until we all get involved in buying health care services and are reconnected with the real costs, we will continue to get absurd outcomes. We are getting what we deserve.
Conservatives should stop with all the venom for Obama and focus on finding and electing intelligent, honorable people with innovative ideas. Putting up folks like Sarah Palin and Geoerge W Bush just makes conservatives look like bafoons.
Until we all get involved in buying health care services and are reconnected with the real costs, we will continue to get absurd outcomes. We are getting what we deserve.
Conservatives should stop with all the venom for Obama and focus on finding and electing intelligent, honorable people with innovative ideas. Putting up folks like Sarah Palin and Geoerge W Bush just makes conservatives look like bafoons.
Government 2% Overhead | 6:20 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
When I read that I was laughing so loud I almost fell out of my chair.
xscribe | 6:35 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
@aussuu: So do believe it's Obama's fault or not. Your statement is
conflicting. Nonetheless, Obama has not blamed everything on Bush. All
he's ever said - if I'm wrong, then give me a cite - is that he
inherited a trillion dollar debt when he took office. The stimulus was not
"pushed through" while Obama was a senator; and the Dems weren't
in control for the first six years of Bush's presidency. Also, if you
don't think the money being spent on the Iraq War didn't put your
children in debt, then you're dillusional!
Doug G | 6:57 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
It is time for single payer health care for all. We can do this, and make it
work.
one of the group (again) | 7:34 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
To those that think that I will go to the emergency room like I'm an
illegal, you are wrong! If you didn't get it the first time, I want to pay
my way. I know several people that have managed well by negotiating their way
through their health needs.(which are many).
My original point is one of perspective. Either you look for benefits and perks by having someone else pay your way OR you pay as you go. Insurance is not a villein in this, they are in it for profit(that's ok), which is exactly the same as individuals or families going through life. There is a balance sheet for each of us and we all are in it to make a profit. To say other wise is being dishonest.
To the poster that asked about a HSA, that is what I'm working toward now, on my own dime. I am not wealthy nor living off of others. It is a very hard struggle as I have now started my own business and do not collect Unemployment Benefits. I'm not complaining, I'm blessed and glad to be on my own!
My original point is one of perspective. Either you look for benefits and perks by having someone else pay your way OR you pay as you go. Insurance is not a villein in this, they are in it for profit(that's ok), which is exactly the same as individuals or families going through life. There is a balance sheet for each of us and we all are in it to make a profit. To say other wise is being dishonest.
To the poster that asked about a HSA, that is what I'm working toward now, on my own dime. I am not wealthy nor living off of others. It is a very hard struggle as I have now started my own business and do not collect Unemployment Benefits. I'm not complaining, I'm blessed and glad to be on my own!
xscribe | 7:55 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
@one of the group (again): Do you have insurance? If not, then maybe
you've managed your health needs fine thus far, but what happens if you get
really sick, need a major surgery, etc.? A $100,000 hospital bill doesn't
get paid off that easily when you don't have insurance nor a job. Wish
life was as simple as you make it out to be, but it's not. I agree that
there are a lot of folks that want to take advantage of the system, but to me
that means the system is broken. We need to figure out how to fix it. Your way
is not the only viewpoint nor necessarily the right answer, and those of us for
government health care just see it differently from you. I don't agree
that everyone be required to be insured, but if you aren't you should pay
up-front. I do believe in a government option for those who choose it; those
who don't, don't have to get it.
Much admiration.... | 8:06 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
for 7:34 pm, if everything claimed is as he says. If more citizens were like
this, there would be no healthcare crisis. Good luck, and may the Lords blessing
be with you 7:34.
@ 7:55 | 8:29 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
As you try to find ways to rationalize living off of others, listen to your own
words. "Yours is not the only viewpoint nor necessarily the right
answer" MY MAIN POINT is one of SELF-RELIANCE!
It is not the gov'ts business to take care of me or you, or to own car companies, financial institutions, or who knows what else as the meltdown continues!
WAKE UP!
Medicare... going, going, going... Bankrupt
Social Security..going,going,.... Bankrupt
United States of America... Going, going, going......?
This isn't a myth, this is how it is right now, we are going down a road that is very bumpy and the brakes are out! My opinion, hardly. Look up the gov't projections. And by the way, the date has been moving up for the past couple of months, it now looks to be only a couple of years before we are spending more than we take in for social security and as unemployment continues to get worse the date will move forward quicker! What a quagmire! (oh yeah, it's Bush's Fault, Rightttttt!)
It is not the gov'ts business to take care of me or you, or to own car companies, financial institutions, or who knows what else as the meltdown continues!
WAKE UP!
Medicare... going, going, going... Bankrupt
Social Security..going,going,.... Bankrupt
United States of America... Going, going, going......?
This isn't a myth, this is how it is right now, we are going down a road that is very bumpy and the brakes are out! My opinion, hardly. Look up the gov't projections. And by the way, the date has been moving up for the past couple of months, it now looks to be only a couple of years before we are spending more than we take in for social security and as unemployment continues to get worse the date will move forward quicker! What a quagmire! (oh yeah, it's Bush's Fault, Rightttttt!)
xscribe | 10:01 p.m. Oct. 20, 2009
Please quote my whole sentence, not just one part, and then you'll see that
I said I just see things different from you, and not that your answer is right
nor my answer is right. With that said: In your parens you say, oh yeah,
it's Bush's fault, Rightttttt! Do you mean to somehow insinuate that
everything that is happening now is Obama's fault? I'm sure there is
enough blame to go around.
I also know what the government projections are. Medicare and Social Security have been in trouble long before Obama became president, so what are you trying to say there? And are you advocating for Social Security? Because that's a government program, being done in by the babyboomers.
I do, however, agree with your premise of self-reliance, but only if you're afforded such opportunity. If you want to sit there in the comfort of your home, with obvious ammenities like a computer, cable TV, cell phone, etc. while this country has a huge homeless population, including children, and somehow say they shouldn't receive some government help to become self-reliant, I wholeheartedly disagree with you.
I also know what the government projections are. Medicare and Social Security have been in trouble long before Obama became president, so what are you trying to say there? And are you advocating for Social Security? Because that's a government program, being done in by the babyboomers.
I do, however, agree with your premise of self-reliance, but only if you're afforded such opportunity. If you want to sit there in the comfort of your home, with obvious ammenities like a computer, cable TV, cell phone, etc. while this country has a huge homeless population, including children, and somehow say they shouldn't receive some government help to become self-reliant, I wholeheartedly disagree with you.
Guaranteed living | 3:58 a.m. Oct. 21, 2009
This story seems like a ploy to get sympathy and support to show why we should
have socialized health care.
The real problem with this family is they did very little to plan to pay for it by saving up some money. Insurance has never been meant or intended be a full pay system and it never will be, not even with the Obama plan. Even in what reports coming out about the Obama plan, they will not pay in full for any services either.
People of america think that an insurance plan is like a bumper to bumper car warranty and they are not responsible for their debts in medical care.
Now with all these unemployed workers, how will they pay for the forced health care law to pay for health care insurance or go to jail? How will the millions of jobless people be able to pay Obama?
The Obama plan says everyone must have either his plan or a private plan in force for the rest of their lives or face fines and jail. This plan will fall on the shoulder of every american to pay for it whether you want to believe it or not.
The real problem with this family is they did very little to plan to pay for it by saving up some money. Insurance has never been meant or intended be a full pay system and it never will be, not even with the Obama plan. Even in what reports coming out about the Obama plan, they will not pay in full for any services either.
People of america think that an insurance plan is like a bumper to bumper car warranty and they are not responsible for their debts in medical care.
Now with all these unemployed workers, how will they pay for the forced health care law to pay for health care insurance or go to jail? How will the millions of jobless people be able to pay Obama?
The Obama plan says everyone must have either his plan or a private plan in force for the rest of their lives or face fines and jail. This plan will fall on the shoulder of every american to pay for it whether you want to believe it or not.
Anonymous | 7:28 a.m. Oct. 21, 2009
Folks, we need a national health insurance plan for all - now. Stop the
madness!
Chad | 7:37 a.m. Oct. 21, 2009
Issue 1: Why do so many of you trust corporations, when a corporation's
primary goal is to maximize shareholder profits, more than the leaders who you
elect to serve your interests? Issue 2: To those opposed to a government
insurance option, don't you realize that insurance is already
"socialized?" The reason you pay so much to see the doctor is that the
doctor must recoup the losses incurred when serving those who cannot or will not
pay for services. A government option may remedy this situation. Issue 3: I
often wonder why so many people whine about the cost of sickcare while doing
nothing at all to enhance their own health. If we want lower costs, a good start
must be made at the individual level by getting in shape and being healthy. The
downside to all healthcare options that I see available is that at some point a
person who stays fit to the best of his or her ability pays for those you think
sports something to watch instead of something to do. Coverage should be fitness
dependent. Obese smokers should pay a lot more than I do.
Medicare is not for profit | 8:08 a.m. Oct. 21, 2009
Do you think medicare should be in the red? These are old people that are not in
the best of health.
Medicare is going broke? We have heard this before, time and time again, that Medicare is going broke. In 1970 it was the big news, In 1980 same story, 1990 Medicare is going broke, and in Y2K it was broke again. Well, Medicare will always be broke, all I can tell you is that it works.
Medicare is going broke? We have heard this before, time and time again, that Medicare is going broke. In 1970 it was the big news, In 1980 same story, 1990 Medicare is going broke, and in Y2K it was broke again. Well, Medicare will always be broke, all I can tell you is that it works.
focused | 8:17 a.m. Oct. 21, 2009
the article talks about insurance, while I was head of hr we had to get new insurance. The company chose to go with an insurance company who charged us $110 more than the competition but they were friends with the owner of the company. I wonder how many other companies are in a similar situation?
Others in this thread say they are self sufficient and I think that perhaps they drive on gov't roads, send their children to gov't run schools, call the gov't run police department when there is a problem.
The gov't is in your life and you can call yourselves non-socialists but when you really examine your lifestyle you pay your taxes and reap the benefits. The gov't can make much more money if it keeps the worker bees healthy.
The cost of bankruptcy due to healthcare can ruin not just one generation but many.
Lost your JOB | 10:13 a.m. Oct. 21, 2009
and cannon find another one?
BLAME OBAMA!! He has KILLED the economy with CAP and Trade, Tarp, non-stimulus STIMULUS, OBAMAcare....
He has unseated Jimmy Carter as the worst President in History......
BLAME OBAMA!! He has KILLED the economy with CAP and Trade, Tarp, non-stimulus STIMULUS, OBAMAcare....
He has unseated Jimmy Carter as the worst President in History......
@focused | 10:15 a.m. Oct. 21, 2009
Nice try Mr. Marxist. "the govt. can make much more money if it keeps the
worker bees healthy.?
Only problem is that under a socialistic government run system, the worker bees are out of work! If the worker bees don't have jobs then the worker bees can't pay the taxes for the freebie/vote-getting schemes of the 'dear leaders.'
Only problem is that under a socialistic government run system, the worker bees are out of work! If the worker bees don't have jobs then the worker bees can't pay the taxes for the freebie/vote-getting schemes of the 'dear leaders.'
Some Real Gems | 10:30 a.m. Oct. 21, 2009
Did you really say that?!
"If health insurance were available in the free-market, there would be no concern about losing health insurance when you leave an employer."
Um, it is.
"Health insurance is not any different than a loaf of bread, or transportation, or housing."
Are you serious? Has the cost of a loaf of bread risen 119% in the last decade? Does Wonder and Great Harvest collude to drive up rates? Will it kill you not to have it?
"The reason it is so hard to set up a great insurance system is that no one has ever found a way to get something entirely for nothing."
Since the whole purpose of insurance is to ensure that you've pre-paid for services, it should be called ensurance. Insurance is the biggest legal scam in history.
"To those that think that I will go to the emergency room like I'm an illegal, you are wrong!"
Wow, just wow. You better hope you never have an accident then, cause that's exactly where they're gonna take you.
"If health insurance were available in the free-market, there would be no concern about losing health insurance when you leave an employer."
Um, it is.
"Health insurance is not any different than a loaf of bread, or transportation, or housing."
Are you serious? Has the cost of a loaf of bread risen 119% in the last decade? Does Wonder and Great Harvest collude to drive up rates? Will it kill you not to have it?
"The reason it is so hard to set up a great insurance system is that no one has ever found a way to get something entirely for nothing."
Since the whole purpose of insurance is to ensure that you've pre-paid for services, it should be called ensurance. Insurance is the biggest legal scam in history.
"To those that think that I will go to the emergency room like I'm an illegal, you are wrong!"
Wow, just wow. You better hope you never have an accident then, cause that's exactly where they're gonna take you.
Lew Jeppson | 10:49 a.m. Oct. 21, 2009
"One of the group. Where do you get the idea health care would be free. You
must not be listening too well or reading. Health care as to be paid for by
us." Well of course. It is also about spreading risk. That's why it
is necessary.
WHY? | 11:03 a.m. Oct. 21, 2009
It looks to me that the people in Utah would give an arm and a leg to make sure
that National Health Insurance never passes. In fact, it looks like they would
pay thousands of dollars out of there pockets to make sure these poor people
never get a dime of health coverage. It looks to me like the people of Utah are
not worth a much at all. Good thing there are lots of Blue States running the
show now.
Foolishness on display | 11:28 a.m. Oct. 21, 2009
There is no free lunch, people.
Engineers are fond of saying that you can make a technologically-advanced product quickly, or you can make it cheap. You can't do both.
Similarly, we can make sure everyone has access to top-notch medical care, but we won't be able to do it cheaply.
And Americans are exceptionally delusional if they think the government can provide top-notch medical care to everyone without significantly raising their taxes.
But I guess the desire to get something for nothing is so strong with some people that they are willing to ignore reality to get what they want. The irony is that they will eventually end up with nothing.
Engineers are fond of saying that you can make a technologically-advanced product quickly, or you can make it cheap. You can't do both.
Similarly, we can make sure everyone has access to top-notch medical care, but we won't be able to do it cheaply.
And Americans are exceptionally delusional if they think the government can provide top-notch medical care to everyone without significantly raising their taxes.
But I guess the desire to get something for nothing is so strong with some people that they are willing to ignore reality to get what they want. The irony is that they will eventually end up with nothing.
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If health insurance were available in the free-market, there would be no concern about losing health insurance when you leave an employer. You wouldn't have to worry about those insane COBRA payemnts - your rates would stay the same. People could "shop around" for the coverage that best suits their needs and budget (instead of having to pick from a plan that the HR director chose FOR you). The cost of health insurance would go down because of competition AND it would be equalized because the costs would be shared by everyone within the insurance company instead of just the employees in your company. Small businesses wouldn't have the overwhelming expense of insuring a small group. Tax advantages could still be provided in the way of tax credits.
Please, SOMEONE explain to me why health insurance is NOT offered like any other "product" in this country!