Comments about ‘Joe Cannon: Mormons are entitled to defend their freedom of religion’

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Published: Sunday, Oct. 18 2009 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Just so long as I get every bit as much right to defend mine. And to sell them beer while I'm at it. I love freedom.


I read the talk and I thought Elder Oakes definitely landed some of his punches.

We as a Americans enjoy a number of rights enumerated in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

But what happens in a pluralistic society when one constitutional right is pitted against another?

His point, as I understood it, is that freedom of religion is losing too many of those fights.

I get that there's a pecking order. But I don't understand why freedom of religion seems to be moving ever further down that order.

Of Course

Of course members of the LDS Church can defend their faith. It would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

However, the LDS Church and it's members need to own their own behavior and accept criticism for their poor behavior. Descriminating against a group of Americans is horrible behavior and deserves criticism. It is ridiculous to claim persecution for being criticized for persecuting others.

In America, all men are created equal. Working to prevent that is un-American.


AMEN !!!!!


So why are the persecuted now using religious freedom to discriminate and persecute?


You are absolutely entitled to defend your religion and beliefs. But, when the church enters the political fray, you need to deal with criticism more effectively than simply playing the persecution card all the time.

If the church can't deal with criticism of its stance on Prop 8, then perhaps they shouldn't have weighed in to begin with.


Mr Cannon, in this case it's very apparent that Mr Oaks and the Mormon church feel that they're being denied the religious freedom to discriminate against homosexuals. Period. A history lesson on Mormon persecution does nothing to extend the discussion. Just where were you really planning to go with this argument?

Barry Nay

Well said, Joe.


The right to believe that marriage is an act of spirituality and faith, is the right to believe of every christian church and not only a part of the believes of the LDS Church. To speak up against forces to regulate believes by inforcing a law for that, is the right and duty of any leader of a church. Living in an country witch has a long history of religios depression, Germany, I am happy that under the controll of the US Goverment at the end of WWII Germany West got the rights of freedom including religion freedom. It would be sad, if the US would lose this rights just by putting up some so called modern rights. By the way Germany has put out a law for legal Partnerships to guarantee the legal rights for persons witch are not ablee to meet the criteria of a legal marrige. This law regulates the rights of inheritance and support of same sex couples. We have given legal rights to them and have respeced the religios rights of the churches. too. By a good exemple of the old USA.


I support the message from Mr. Oaks - he is correct. I do not beleive at all that the LDS Church is discriminating gays, or anyone else for that matter. Mormons have a right to vote how they feel, just like anyone else does.


I am sure we are all aware of the strong feelings on both sides of the gay marriage issue. I would dare say it affects most of our lives directly, or with someone we know. This discussion has unfortunately turned a little too heated at times, and accusations tossed a little too freely. The above references accusing the LDS church as discriminative or exercising "poor behavior" are simply not true. The LDS church has never discriminated against anyone who is homosexual. These comments are unfounded. Since when does standing up for "traditional" marriage warrant "poor behavior?" The Church stepped into this discussion to defend marriage between a man and a woman. They have never come out as discriminating against homosexuals. In fact, the opposite is true-we as a human family should love one another and treat our differences with respect and kindness. It is interesting how the LDS Church's stance has been reframed as "discrimination" or in other discussions, "hate" by those who disagree with their stance. Please help me find a talk given or article written by an LDS church leader promoting such behavior that is not taken out of context.

Study it well

If you study Elder oaks discourse - the whole thing - you will understand that it's more than just a comment about proposition 8. I have been in situations where I have been ridiculed and threatened because I don't "drink or smoke" like everyone else. Is that religious freedom? Look deeper into what the constitution is, and you will find that there is a rising trend to attack people for their religious beleifs if they don't do like "everyone else."


This has nothing to do with discrimination at all. Same-sex marriage is a moral issue and has nothing to do with civil rights. Unfortunately, the opposition deems it otherwise which it is not. We believe that marriage of a man and woman is ordained of God and nothing that man does will change that.

Some say that the Church will someday allow this but that is probably thinking that the Church is just like any other Christian religion and will break under pressure. That just isn't true. The act of homosexuality is a grievious sin in the sight of God and that has not changed. Regardless of the numerous comments to the contrary, Jesus Christ would love the sinner but would hate the sin itself. No unclean thing can enter into the presence of God. The great thing is that Jesus Christ died for each one of us, giving us the power of repentance for our sins. Every individual that has walked or will walk on the Earth will sin except the Son of God, Jesus Christ. His is the perfect atonement. Prophets of God have stated that the act of homosexuality is a choice.

Right to Marry

Those of you who view marriage by homosexuals as a "right." Many people cannot marry:

Siblings cannot marry.
A parent cannot marry their child.
First cousins cannot marry in most states.
An aunt or uncle cannot marry their nephew or niece


Defend all you want. Think people are going to stop laughing at your 'religion'?




Mr. Cannon, you forgot to mention that it was a Mormon girls that also ended the practice of prayers at school before football games and other activities.

We often hear that religion is under attack because prayer is not allowed in school, but it was an LDS girl and a catholic student that brought the practice to an end.

After being denied the right to say the prayer at their Texas high school football game because they were not of the prevailing religion, the mormon and catholic kids sued and won all the way to the supreme court.

Now I hear that people from these same religions are using their religion to deny rights to other individuals.

Does that strike anyone as Ironic?

How about commenting on that Mr. Cannon, that minority religions attacked the religious freedom of the baptists to paray at their football games?

SLC visitor

After watching Joseph Smith: Prophet of the Restoration at Legacy Theatre this past week, I saw past persecutions of the LDS in a different light than I used to. While I don't condone what was done to those early members, I now wonder what they had done which may have contributed to provoking attacks. I repeat, I DON'T condone the violent actions done to the LDS pioneers. But I no longer think it occurred in a vacuum. I've now seen firsthand how the LDS push their morals on others. Choose carefully what you do unto others; indeed it will be returned to you.

Dr of Psychology

The entire homosexual argument is based on spurious research that has low validity. There is very little honest DNA evidence to support their claims, and I've yet to meet a homosexual who has undergone DNA testing. Therefore, all arguments that spawn from such a broken foundation are questionable at best, including proclamations of "rights." When people allow themselves to be suckered by a relativistic argument their vision becomes clouded. The "gay marriage" argument is not about equality, it is about foisting justification for maladaptive coping choices. Thus it has been a slippery slope designed to depathologize that will sweep with it opposition to other maladaptive behaviors. At this foundational level true liberty, which depends on self-discipline, is under attack. Oaks was absolutely correct.


I totally agree with Elder Oaks. And members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have every right to defend our religion. Back in the 1800's the government didn't allow the earlier members that right, why do you think the Mormon Pioneers came to Utah?? So they can have those precious rights without anyone infringing on them. And now when we defend them here in Utah (a state which the LDS settled) from those who once again want to take them away..but we will continue to stand for what we KNOW is right.

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