Deseret News | Only 2 new charter schools out of 7 OK'd

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Only 2 new charter schools out of 7 OK'd

Glad to see this. | 4:49 p.m. Oct. 15, 2009

I live near Rockwell Charter High School. There were so many problems with that school during its inaugural year, that there was a mass exodus when Westlake High School in Saratoga Springs opened.

One of my daughter's friends who attends Rockwell stated that they were having a serious enrollment problem and the talk is that they may have to close.

I think the state is behaving responsibly by not sending through just anyone who has put together a charter.

Wat to go Chaters School Board! | 5:00 p.m. Oct. 15, 2009

Has anyone ever heard of a district school being told to go back to the drawing board and don't come back till you have a good school application?

The State School Board should follow the lead of the State Charter School Board. EVERY school in the state should be scrutinized and made to get their act together or we'll find someone else to run your school.

@5 PM | 6:48 p.m. Oct. 15, 2009

The State really should go and send some of our lower performing schools back to the rewrite and planning stage. I think you are on to something BIG when it comes to school improvement. If they can't do it, then have the school taken over by someone else who can.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 6:47 a.m. Oct. 16, 2009

You can expect to see more of this. The charter school board is run by people who have interests in existing charter schools. New charter schools are competition for existing charter schools. Originally, charter schools argued that competition is good. But now that they are in the club, competition is not so good.

Charter Schools = BAD | 10:30 a.m. Oct. 16, 2009

Terrible waste of time and resources in an already strapped system. The public mandate for a free and fair education for all will lead to a demise of the system if we allow branch competition for resources across the board.

Anonymous | 11:30 a.m. Oct. 16, 2009

The whole charter movement is an experiment that has gone horribly wrong. Parents are drawn to them, thinking it makes them more involved and responsible. The fact is that most charters are performing below the local regular schools.

We are wasting money by duplicating existing services with nothing to show for it.

Charter Board run amuck | 2:57 p.m. Oct. 16, 2009

What are you saying, Kim Frank, that until this year many of the approved charters were not quality. Your comments are outrageous coming from a representative of the Utah Association of Public Charter Schools. Which of your dues paying members would you place in the non-quality category. Maybe it's just the ones who don't pay dues to you who you'd consider lacking in quality. Shame on you for supporting the Boards puffed up power trip as they oppress innovation and school choice. Many of the other candidates were high quality. And what do you mean when you say "if we police ourselves"? Do you have some inappropriate influence on the Charter Board? Who's the we? You're supposed to be an advocate for Charters!

Anonymous | 3:29 p.m. Oct. 16, 2009

"We are wasting money by duplicating existing services with nothing to show for it."

The greater waste has been shown to be in the District schools. If the state were trying to reduce waste they would be ending the existance of Districts and let each school in the state operate as a Charter. That IS where the state should be aiming for.

RE: Anonymous | 11:30 a.m. | 4:28 p.m. Oct. 16, 2009

One could and can say the EXACT SAME THING about the public education system.

re: 3:29 | 6:08 p.m. Oct. 16, 2009

The point of public education is to provide a free and appropriate education for every child. If every school was a charter that would not happen. There would be a huge discrepancy between wealthy and poor kids getting an education. Schools were the wealthy kids went would receive generous amounts of money and parental involvement compared to poor schools were parents cannot afford to give money or time.
Wouldn't that be great? Creating a massive difference between economic statuses. Is that the world we want?
While theoretically, competition should create better education, it has never done so for every child. It only creates a better education for the wealthy.

re 6:08 | 8:13 p.m. Oct. 16, 2009

I don't think you have a clear grasp on what a Charter School is. They are FREE public schools. What you are referring to is called a Private school. This means if we were to convert to a state of charters, all kids would still have access to a free public education.

Anonymous | 8:13 a.m. Oct. 17, 2009

NO it means that each school could write a charter aimed at the specific type of kids it wants to teach.

Segregation would follow just like 6:08 described. It is already happening.

There is a reason our country has public education and leads the world. Quality education for everyone is very rare in the world these days. Charters are pulling us away from that.

re 8:13 | 10:17 a.m. Oct. 17, 2009

You obviously have never been to a Charter school. The only one that could be considered even remotely like what your paranoid mind has come up with is a Charter school for asperbergers/autism, and even THAT school accepts a high number of normal or high functioning students.

Perhaps you should educate yourself on what a charter school is. It may help when you want to attempt credible posts to actually have accurate information. Charter schools are about inclusion and do the best job ANTWHERE in the state about mixing kids from various backgrounds. Most charters allow visits. Go and see for yourself, although I am guessing you are a teacher and are more afraid of what actually is going right because you fear being out of a job.

Anonymous | 10:20 a.m. Oct. 17, 2009

Hey Anon 8:13,

The US does not lead the world. That is one reason that the Republican party pushes so much in Charter schools as a chance to reform our failing system of public schools. It is failing because we cannot compete with most foreign school systems anymore as our educational standards have been lowered. It is a miracle Obama didn't get rid of Charter schools. His party backed by the teachers union has been livid with charters because of the competition and spotlight they place on them.

Anonymous | 3:03 p.m. Oct. 17, 2009

The US does lead the world when you take into account the entire population.

Karl | 11:20 p.m. Oct. 17, 2009

Quality education? Leading the world? You obvisouly don't know much about the world or lived anywhere else. Which school district are you talking about? My daughter went Riverton and it was a joke. All they care about is attendance and a pulas.

Charter schools only get about half the funding per student but get better results. Obviously, my evidence is anecdotal but the kids going to the charter school are at least a grade ahead of mine. There is a reason there is a lottery into the charter schools and not into the public school systems.

I'm putting my step son in the lottery next year...

Hank Jr. | 12:43 p.m. Oct. 18, 2009

Our state needs an alternative to the public school system in order for competition. I feel the public school system has atrophied over the last couple of decades and our children are the ones to suffer. Teacher's unions, political orientated school boards, etc. have just been part of the problem. If there is competition in the market of education it would bring up the standards of both public and charter schools. I voted against vouchers the last election but in gaining knowledge I would gladley vote for vouchers next time around.

Anonymous | 1:05 p.m. Oct. 18, 2009

I am near Rockwell also. I think the mass exodus had more to do with an exodus from the original charter like doing away with uniforms, lack of real discipline from the administration, no dual enrollment as promised, and an overall lack of communication between the administration and parents (not that good parents were not trying). I would also like to mention that none of the poor performing teachers were let go. As a matter of fact no one was let go. Do to the size of the Rockwell staff this alone is an anomaly. When this kind of a whirl wind happens and the administration does not lead out and stick to the original charter, then of course good students and good families will leave for a better education and learning environment elsewhere; the bad kids (notice I didn't say students) will remain and grow. The next thing you will see is the good teachers will seek new jobs elsewhere also. Unless this mess is turned around from the top down (i.e. Rockwell School Board) and returns to its original charter this school will either fail or become a juvenile delinquent center who tries to educate.

Sad Former Rockweller | 1:19 p.m. Oct. 18, 2009

Yep, I couldn't agree more. Rockwell was supposed to be a college prep originally, with strick rules and great communication. Boy did it go the opposite direction fast! Having been in 2 other charter school start ups before I have never seen so many good parents leave. If a charter does not offer better programs, outperform the local public school and offer better discipline and communication, then they have lost the incentive to go there.

Former mva parent | 1:43 p.m. Oct. 18, 2009

We too tried the charter experience. We will never do that again. A charter is as the board that runs it. Mountainville Academy has a board that has no experience running a school but they think they know everything. After a terrible year last year their enrollment is down and they are bumping along. That is one charter that needs to go away. I suspect it will bump along another couple of years and then die. One can only hope.

Anonymous | 1:54 p.m. Oct. 18, 2009

Charters as a whole continually score lower on national tests than regular schools.

Keep drinking the kool aid and don't let the door hit you on the way to the charter school.

one thing i noticed | 5:07 p.m. Oct. 18, 2009

as a former charter parent, myself, one thing i noticed was that some of the children who attended mountainville academy seemed to be students that struggled for a variety of reasons in other school systems. there were kids who clearly had adhd yet their parents refused to get them medications to help them coexist with other students and teachers. (before i get slammed for the comment - my son has adhd but is medicated on a low dose of medication so he is not zombielike) some students had serious anger issues and bullied other children. the three sixth grade teachers that were fired two weeks before christmas helped to protect the 6th graders from the bullying that existed there. charters, in my opinion, seem to be run by people that dont have a clue how to run a school. they just want preferential treatment for their kids by pretending the school districts aren't doing their jobs. it is actually the parents that need to start making their children more accountable for their actions. stop blaming the school district and the teachers. they are there to teach not parent. that is our job.

iteach | 5:48 a.m. Oct. 19, 2009

Perfect way to say it, "one thing." Parents, read that line again: "Teachers are there to teach, not parent. That is your job." Quote of the day.

@Anonymous | 1:54 p.m | 5:53 a.m. Oct. 19, 2009

Not here in Utah. You will see the exact opposite with Charters outperforming national averages by a wide margin. See for yourself on the State website instead of making stuff up.

@one thing

Districts aren't doing their job either, but I agree fully that parents need to be more responsible for their children. A charter is not a fix for bad parenting.

Anonymous | 9:29 a.m. Oct. 20, 2009

I looked up the charters by me and they are lower than the regular school by about 7% - 8% in each subject.

So you charter people better stop making stuff up.

Anonymous | 10:41 p.m. Oct. 30, 2009

American Prep. Academy has achieved positive results throughout the Draper campus. Specifically, AYP: Language Arts - 95%, Math - 86%. The state scores are: Language Arts - 80%, Math - 71%. Jordan School District: Language Arts - 82%, Math - 72%. These and other scores from all over the state are available at Utah's government website on AYP performance. The information is available to anyone who is interested enough to do a little research.

You assume that because the charters near you do poorly that they all do. We all know what assuming makes us.

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