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Cuts may doom up to 18 charter schools
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Conscience | 6:44 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Oh just watch. Mr. Killpack will save the day for Charter Schools of Utah. Let
it be known, it will be pretty obvious since he works for a company that runs
charter schools. Where is the transparency? All for ethics reform say,
"Aye". The eyes have it!
Westgate323 | 6:58 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Another example of rewarding mediocrity and punishing success in the education
of our children.
"A third of our schools, which are performing extremely well, are going to get shut down."
Administrators seem to fear the mass exodus of excellent performing student to the charter schools.
This appears to be a unfair and vicious political strike from the enemies of charter schools. This move is oblivious to the very harmful effect on children and parents with little or no alternatives to poor performing traditional schools.
If the State Office of Education was unaware of the hardship the current plan forecasted for charter schools, that is irresponsible at best. It will be a major point of discussion as the board "refines" the proposal.
How would any reasonable person expect charters to react to major cuts positively, even after their success? Charters are not jumping to conclusions.
What a sour way to "begin a conversation".I am grateful Obama is pro-charter school.
"A third of our schools, which are performing extremely well, are going to get shut down."
Administrators seem to fear the mass exodus of excellent performing student to the charter schools.
This appears to be a unfair and vicious political strike from the enemies of charter schools. This move is oblivious to the very harmful effect on children and parents with little or no alternatives to poor performing traditional schools.
If the State Office of Education was unaware of the hardship the current plan forecasted for charter schools, that is irresponsible at best. It will be a major point of discussion as the board "refines" the proposal.
How would any reasonable person expect charters to react to major cuts positively, even after their success? Charters are not jumping to conclusions.
What a sour way to "begin a conversation".I am grateful Obama is pro-charter school.
GET A CLUE - Legislature | 7:37 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Where is the common sense? Charter schools are the one schools which are
responsive to parental input. If parents ask charters to improve math or reading
education they do it, they don't argue or point to studies which show why
learning times tables really isn't all that important.
Legislature, GET A CLUE ...
We need more charter schools, not less.
Legislature, GET A CLUE ...
We need more charter schools, not less.
Comments continue below
Cut even more charter schools | 7:38 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
I wish they would cut enought charter schools that they would all have to
close.
Instead of spending more money on more different kinds of schools they should be working to make publics schools better for all.
Charter schools are just a way for rich parents to do what they want. They are so use to being able to buy anything they want they can't learn to work with everyone to build something better for all.
Not one kid in any school picked to be rich or poor and should not be punished by the rick parents for being poor.
Public schools have lots of problems, but it should be everyones job to help fix them. Not just those that could not afford to run away like the rich parents do with there kids.
No charter school can ever do what a public school can do for a kid.
Instead of spending more money on more different kinds of schools they should be working to make publics schools better for all.
Charter schools are just a way for rich parents to do what they want. They are so use to being able to buy anything they want they can't learn to work with everyone to build something better for all.
Not one kid in any school picked to be rich or poor and should not be punished by the rick parents for being poor.
Public schools have lots of problems, but it should be everyones job to help fix them. Not just those that could not afford to run away like the rich parents do with there kids.
No charter school can ever do what a public school can do for a kid.
Don't Cut Charters | 7:47 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Charter schools started out life already cut. They do a better job of teaching,
but with less money, they always have.
Legislature, what kind of common sense is this, are you really going to cut charter schools?
Legislature, what kind of common sense is this, are you really going to cut charter schools?
re 7:38 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009 | 7:53 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
"Instead of spending more money on more different kinds of schools they
should be working to make publics schools better for all."
________________
In theory you are absolutely right. All schools should be quality schools. Did you know however how stubborn administrations of school districts can be when their teaching methods are substandard, and parents try to get them to change?
This is why charters are needed. In a charter school the parents are the school board.
If a new idea comes around where phonix is no longer to be taught, a school district may adopt it and inspite of fierce parental pressure, it will take years for them to change their ways. Charter schools will do it in a matter of weeks, if the parents want legitimate change.
Likewise with the fad of not teaching kids to do arithmetic or using calculators instead.
I think the legislature is acting foolishly if they get rid of charters, the one bright spot in our educational system.
________________
In theory you are absolutely right. All schools should be quality schools. Did you know however how stubborn administrations of school districts can be when their teaching methods are substandard, and parents try to get them to change?
This is why charters are needed. In a charter school the parents are the school board.
If a new idea comes around where phonix is no longer to be taught, a school district may adopt it and inspite of fierce parental pressure, it will take years for them to change their ways. Charter schools will do it in a matter of weeks, if the parents want legitimate change.
Likewise with the fad of not teaching kids to do arithmetic or using calculators instead.
I think the legislature is acting foolishly if they get rid of charters, the one bright spot in our educational system.
KC | 8:12 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Sooooo ... "no" to vouchers and now we're going to cut charter
schools? Brilliant, Utah. Just brilliant.
LM | 8:39 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Back to vouchers... Privatizing education will have the effect of spreading the
performance gap perhaps even more than it is already spread in public
schools--some excellent private schools will be formed, and some poor private
schools formed. Still I'm in favor.
Why?
Because poor teachers will be able to be cut, and poorly behaved students will be able to be removed, the system as a whole will rise. Students and teachers who need a wake up call, will get it.
If we could redirect property taxes from a local appropriation to a state appropriation, then the state could offer significantly more than the $500 - 3000 voucher.
Then cities can appropriate only what they need, and the state can hand out what the public schools need on a per pupil basis and can fund a voucher or tuition tax credit.
In the end, the choice, uniforms, religion, etc. in private schools (who would hire many excellent public school teachers--and there are many excellent public school teachers!) will make more of a difference in helping students and families than the Godless public schools will that have to walk on glass around the issues and morality that can help America.
Why?
Because poor teachers will be able to be cut, and poorly behaved students will be able to be removed, the system as a whole will rise. Students and teachers who need a wake up call, will get it.
If we could redirect property taxes from a local appropriation to a state appropriation, then the state could offer significantly more than the $500 - 3000 voucher.
Then cities can appropriate only what they need, and the state can hand out what the public schools need on a per pupil basis and can fund a voucher or tuition tax credit.
In the end, the choice, uniforms, religion, etc. in private schools (who would hire many excellent public school teachers--and there are many excellent public school teachers!) will make more of a difference in helping students and families than the Godless public schools will that have to walk on glass around the issues and morality that can help America.
Thank goodness | 8:47 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
It's about time the legislature appropriately fund public schools before
they continue to fund charter schools. Quit funding 2 separate programs --
focus on making one better! I'm happy to see this.
MS | 8:53 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
If charter school can operate on less funding and do a much better job of
education our children, then why not adopt the charter school format for all
public schools. That just might fix the budget.
Perhaps administrators need to be looked at, I'm sure there are a lot of cuts that can be done in that department. Utah ranks lowest in education spending anyway, so how low can we go?
Perhaps administrators need to be looked at, I'm sure there are a lot of cuts that can be done in that department. Utah ranks lowest in education spending anyway, so how low can we go?
RE: Cut even more | 8:55 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Charter schools ARE public schools - public schools of choice administered at
the school level rather than the district level.
Relax People | 8:55 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Do you really think the pet darling of the Utah legislature (not to mention a
cash cow for some legislators in the Charter building business) is going to be
scaled back? NO WAY!
Relax people. It's only October. President Obama, Arne Duncan and the 4.5 billion dollars they are putting into education (Charters heavily favored) from the stimulus will save Utah Charters.
Relax people. It's only October. President Obama, Arne Duncan and the 4.5 billion dollars they are putting into education (Charters heavily favored) from the stimulus will save Utah Charters.
Fact | 8:59 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
"Public schools have lots of problems, but it should be everyones job to
help fix them. Not just those that could not afford to run away like the rich
parents do with there kids."
There is no tuition at a charter school, ANYONE can run away (as they rightly should) from public schools. If charter schools have such an advantage, as you are implying, why aren't you taking your children there?
If you don't like them, don't use them. The fact is they cost LESS than public schools... for every student that goes to a charter, the taxing school district for that student gets partial funding anyway. They net result is that districts have an INCREASE in per pupil funding (overall) when a student in their district goes to a charter school.
Still hate charters?
There is no tuition at a charter school, ANYONE can run away (as they rightly should) from public schools. If charter schools have such an advantage, as you are implying, why aren't you taking your children there?
If you don't like them, don't use them. The fact is they cost LESS than public schools... for every student that goes to a charter, the taxing school district for that student gets partial funding anyway. They net result is that districts have an INCREASE in per pupil funding (overall) when a student in their district goes to a charter school.
Still hate charters?
jim | 9:01 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
How is it that charter schools can do it for less? Is there waste in the
system?
Down with Charter | 9:07 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
If the people who can afford private school take their kids out of public
school. . .what do you have left? Vouchers are a bad idea. Want better
schools. . . make them better.
Salt Lake City area wasts too much money on different districts. The ENTIRE Salt Lake county should be one district. With one comission. This would put almost a million dollars back into the school system.
Schools needs to take a stance & get ride of the trouble makers. Educations is not a right. but a prilage. Schools are not the baby sitters either. Instead of charter school, have special schools for those that do not/will not do what they should be doing in the class rooms. Move the "bad students" out & put them in different schools. Then pay the teachers what they are worth. Don't do the work & you get left behind. No student left behind means move them out when they should not. Government at it's best. Can't get rid of them, promote them out.
Salt Lake City area wasts too much money on different districts. The ENTIRE Salt Lake county should be one district. With one comission. This would put almost a million dollars back into the school system.
Schools needs to take a stance & get ride of the trouble makers. Educations is not a right. but a prilage. Schools are not the baby sitters either. Instead of charter school, have special schools for those that do not/will not do what they should be doing in the class rooms. Move the "bad students" out & put them in different schools. Then pay the teachers what they are worth. Don't do the work & you get left behind. No student left behind means move them out when they should not. Government at it's best. Can't get rid of them, promote them out.
Charter schools for the rich? | 9:10 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
The charter school where my children attend is a Title I school - meaning more
than half of our student body is economically disadvantaged. The majority of
our students come from families living near the poverty line. We are hardly a
school for "the rich."
Great | 9:12 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
I have never liked the idea of charter schools. Get rid of them all and stop
spending money building and maintaining all of these small buildings.
Anonymous | 9:27 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
I keep hearing that Charter Schools do a better job for less.... Not true.
Check the achievement test scores. Charter schools are trying to catch up, but
so far their test scores are lower than traditional schools.
To say otherwise is the big lie of Charter Schools.
To say otherwise is the big lie of Charter Schools.
charter school mentor | 9:41 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
re: cut even more.
Charter schools aren't for rich kids. They're for every kid whose parents share common educational goals. They are public schools--public schools on a shoestring budget. The charter school I work at is awesome: awesome students, vision, goals, faculty, and curriculum. I am paid less than I would be at a public high, I have fewer benefits, and I have to commute over 40 miles each way for the privilege of working with some of the most amazing people, along with their parents, in the state. Since our budget is already thin, little cuts go much deeper comparatively.
As far as the socio-economic picture of my students go--I have students across the spectrum of religion, race, and income: students eating peanut butter on homemade bread every day, and students given ten dollars to eat at Carl's Jr. every day; students from very large families, students who are only children, and students from broken homes; students from different countries and students who have never been out of Utah. Don't label them all rich kids. What do they have in common? They each are taking responsibility for his/her own education.
Charter schools aren't for rich kids. They're for every kid whose parents share common educational goals. They are public schools--public schools on a shoestring budget. The charter school I work at is awesome: awesome students, vision, goals, faculty, and curriculum. I am paid less than I would be at a public high, I have fewer benefits, and I have to commute over 40 miles each way for the privilege of working with some of the most amazing people, along with their parents, in the state. Since our budget is already thin, little cuts go much deeper comparatively.
As far as the socio-economic picture of my students go--I have students across the spectrum of religion, race, and income: students eating peanut butter on homemade bread every day, and students given ten dollars to eat at Carl's Jr. every day; students from very large families, students who are only children, and students from broken homes; students from different countries and students who have never been out of Utah. Don't label them all rich kids. What do they have in common? They each are taking responsibility for his/her own education.
jbm | 9:45 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Charter schools are a bad idea. We need to work on fixing our public schools
and stop funding charter schools. The charter school in our area have no
policies or procedures in place. They do what ever they want at families and
teachers' expense. They let go of highly qualified teachers and hired
teachers without a license just to save money. What kind of a school is that?
What happened to NCLB? Let's improve what we already have and do away with
the charter schools.
We need to go back to the way it | 9:46 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
was when students would be held back if they didn’t pass their classes.
Students can do nothing but move onto the next grade is crazy to me. I know
about no child left behind which was good in theory but bad when it was put into
play. Public education is no better or worst then charter schools or private
schools. It depends on the teachers if they challenge their students. You get
more one on one with charter schools which is great but you have a lot less
classes offered to the students. Most of them try to run like a private school
with uniforms and their policies. Most focus on different things like Spanish,
theatre, math, or science. Anyone with a degree can teach at a private school.
You do not have to have a teaching license like you do in public schools. The
degree doesn’t make a teacher the hard work and dedication makes a good
teacher. The teaching profession has lost a lot of good teachers due to the
lack of pay while other jobs are now paying more.
Why charters? | 9:50 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
I think what you are seeing is the end of charter schools. People don't
want them in the state. The teaching methods are radical at best and syphon off
the best and brightest students leaving the districts teaching all. Have you
ever seen a charter school with a special education curriculum? Is there any
inclusion in the classroom of those with moderate to severe developmental
disabilites? I wonder about the private charter school corporation that has the
structure for all these schools. Some of the comments here suggest it is a cash
cow for those administrators and that some of these people are part of the
legislature. I would sure like to know more about this. How much does these
administrator/owners make? Is their salary published online like the public
schools are? Our local charter has a brand new building that is tied into our
district. I've been opposed to it since the beginning. I question their
teaching methods and all I hear the students talk about is "self directed
learning". They seem to be studying whatever they please. Do they have to
follow the state curriculum? Pass tests? I'm concerned.
Ragnar | 9:59 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
And so the fruitless debate goes on in another forum: education. The pretend
debate is about HOW MUCH government should intervene rather than WHETHER the
government should intervene. This is the nature of collective institutions:
all degrades to a frenzied clamor of who should get the loot rather than a
defense that every individual should keep what he earns.
Here's a concept, what if government got out of the education business and let the free market handle it? What if parents and grandparents were free from property taxes and what if parents had to plan and pay for their own children's education rather than demanding that their neighbor be their biblical "keeper" and the keeper of their children? What if an entrepreneur could start his own school without worry about whether he'd be open next year due to a new tax on him or on his clients or due to the elimination of some government handout?
What if government just protected our rights and left us free to reap the rewards and suffer the consequences of our own choices... even in education?
Liberty. Neat concept.
Here's a concept, what if government got out of the education business and let the free market handle it? What if parents and grandparents were free from property taxes and what if parents had to plan and pay for their own children's education rather than demanding that their neighbor be their biblical "keeper" and the keeper of their children? What if an entrepreneur could start his own school without worry about whether he'd be open next year due to a new tax on him or on his clients or due to the elimination of some government handout?
What if government just protected our rights and left us free to reap the rewards and suffer the consequences of our own choices... even in education?
Liberty. Neat concept.
Charters progressive | 10:06 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
When in life does it make sense to put money in a failing system? The vast
majority of parents idly stand by while the the traditional public schools drag
our children down the drag. Fear tactics, disinformation and the downplaying of
poor educational results for students is common. Powerful interests, partisan
politics and large egos are involved. Let's choose students over political
games and stop ignoring progressive alternatives to failure.
As a public school teacher, | 10:12 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
I find charter schools a great alternative to regular high school such as
Tuacahn in St. George when students have aspirations different from University
studies. Research does prove it takes 7 years to get a charter school where a
public starts because teachers do NOT have to have a current teaching license.
They have three years to get one. They also don't have to provide special
services. While parents have input in a charter school, I GUARANTEE parents have
voice in my school and my classroom. I don't why some parents feel they
don't have a voice. I got plenty of voice when the President of the United
States was addressing the school age children of America. So, I believe charter
schools have their place.
Disillusioned | 10:32 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Remember a certain Supreme court case from the 1950's---one called
"Brown vs. the Board of Education"? One where it was supposed to be
FOREVER decided that "SEPARATE is NOT EQUAL"!!!
The only thing "right" about the UT Charter school law is that those who choose to "separate" choose to not be equal. Charter schools are discriminatory to huge slots of people. Either they segregate those supposed "trouble makers" some of you stereotype into a "special" school, or they completely do not accept, nor provide appropriate services to students who have disabilities. They either segregate students in low SES areas, or minorities. The reality is that charters have been trying the last 2 years to make their numbers look better, by trying to persuade "minorities" to "choose" their schools.
I live in a country where everyone has the RIGHT to an education (it is a RIGHT---as declared in that case stated above). We've fought for far too long and far too hard to "segregate" again now! Charter schools are NOT more successful. The numbers DO NOT show this! If parents are unhappy with their schools, then vote for new school boards, and push for administrative change!
The only thing "right" about the UT Charter school law is that those who choose to "separate" choose to not be equal. Charter schools are discriminatory to huge slots of people. Either they segregate those supposed "trouble makers" some of you stereotype into a "special" school, or they completely do not accept, nor provide appropriate services to students who have disabilities. They either segregate students in low SES areas, or minorities. The reality is that charters have been trying the last 2 years to make their numbers look better, by trying to persuade "minorities" to "choose" their schools.
I live in a country where everyone has the RIGHT to an education (it is a RIGHT---as declared in that case stated above). We've fought for far too long and far too hard to "segregate" again now! Charter schools are NOT more successful. The numbers DO NOT show this! If parents are unhappy with their schools, then vote for new school boards, and push for administrative change!
Charter school fan | 10:41 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
As a matter of fact, yes! Our charter school has a large special education dept relative to school size. Last year, 1.5 special ed teachers, both certified as highly qualified, two full-time aides, part-time speech language pathologist and OT. This year, we have a full-time spec ed teacher, highly qualified certification, three full-time aides, and part-time speech person. We have 30+ kids on special ed plans (IEPs) out of about 240 kids, all are mainstreamed, including kids with autism, Aspergers, severe ADHD, etc. We have more spec ed kids per capita than nearby schools, perhaps because parents have more say about what happens and they know their kid will get a better education here than at the regular public school due to the supportive atmosphere and more opportunities for parent involvement. We get less $ from the stingy legislature than regular public schools but fundraising helps us close the gap and then some, allowing us to do some extras that don't happen at regular public school. Before you knock all charters, find out the truth.
Charter Parent | 10:51 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
I've got my oldest in charter high school this year. He's both gifted
with learning disabilities, health problems and social issues (Asperger's).
The charter has been wonderful for him - small classes, he's made friends,
the teachers and the special ed. resource person have all bent over backwards to
accommodate his IEP. He's learning, he's happy, he's well able
to handle both the academic and social end of it. I hope and pray it's
still there next year. I don't want him falling through the cracks at the
huge local high school.
to: "Fact 8:59" | 11:00 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
It's not that it cost more in tuition, it's that it cost more in
parent having to pay for transportation. It also cost more in the fact that most
parents that are able to send there kids to charters can do it either because
only one parent works, or they make enough that they can still afford to have
someone pick up or take there kid to school every day.
So yes it is mostly richer parents. So stop trying to say it isn't, or show me why most of the students would not be fee wiaver student as you have in public schools.
Also for every fee wiaver student they don't have is a student they can get hundreds out off in fees. That the public schools can't.
Again it comes down to those with money and those without.
And they just don't have the some social aspects that a normal full public school does.
So yes it is mostly richer parents. So stop trying to say it isn't, or show me why most of the students would not be fee wiaver student as you have in public schools.
Also for every fee wiaver student they don't have is a student they can get hundreds out off in fees. That the public schools can't.
Again it comes down to those with money and those without.
And they just don't have the some social aspects that a normal full public school does.
mom of five | 11:04 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Repeat after me: charter schools are public schools.
The charter school I teach at was selected as one of America's Best High Schools in 2008 by U.S. News and World Report. We were one of only 13 high schools in the state to receive this honor. All of our teachers are licensed and most of us have master's degrees in our teaching area--a requirement to teach concurrent enrollment classes.
We are also a PUBLIC school. We have a large population of free and reduced lunch and ELL students, and we have a special education teacher and students with IEPs just like any other public school.
The charter school I teach at was selected as one of America's Best High Schools in 2008 by U.S. News and World Report. We were one of only 13 high schools in the state to receive this honor. All of our teachers are licensed and most of us have master's degrees in our teaching area--a requirement to teach concurrent enrollment classes.
We are also a PUBLIC school. We have a large population of free and reduced lunch and ELL students, and we have a special education teacher and students with IEPs just like any other public school.
brainwashed by public schools | 11:25 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
As if having a teaching certificate guarantees a good education. Look at the
public school system for that answer.
Talk is Cheap | 11:35 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Until the numbers are published about how many IEP, economic disadvantaged and
ELL students are in both school systems you cannot profess to say they are
public schools. They nothing more than private schools with selective enrollment
funded by public tax dollars.
(*) (*) (*) | 11:37 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Obliviously there are a lot of misinformed citizens on the issue of charter
schools.
Fact 1 - Charter schools are more economically efficient than public schools. If we've got money problems then we would be better off with more charter schools and less public schools.
Fact 2 - Charter schools are publicly funded and statistically have many charter schools have more minorities and low-income families than most public schools.
Fact 3 - Some of the standardized testing scores are lower at charter schools because some charter schools have exceptional special education programs and a disproportionate number of special-needs kids compared to the local public schools, an of course that does influence the school's scores.
Fact 4 - Charter schools aren't taking anything away from the public schools. If they don't have the student then why should they get the money? Charter schools have helped to alleviate overcrowding in the public school system, and if they close their doors we are going have even more problems in the public school system.
Fact 1 - Charter schools are more economically efficient than public schools. If we've got money problems then we would be better off with more charter schools and less public schools.
Fact 2 - Charter schools are publicly funded and statistically have many charter schools have more minorities and low-income families than most public schools.
Fact 3 - Some of the standardized testing scores are lower at charter schools because some charter schools have exceptional special education programs and a disproportionate number of special-needs kids compared to the local public schools, an of course that does influence the school's scores.
Fact 4 - Charter schools aren't taking anything away from the public schools. If they don't have the student then why should they get the money? Charter schools have helped to alleviate overcrowding in the public school system, and if they close their doors we are going have even more problems in the public school system.
working in a charter school | 11:43 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Have you worked in or have you had a child in a charter school? Each charter
school is different, but the one in which I work succeeds. Our test scores are
one of the highest in the state. We work with students with disabilities all
the time. I work with students every day who have IEPs and we work very hard as
teachers, administrators, and teacher assistants to make sure these children
have a great education. We do not segregate any students for any reason. We do
provide teaching areas that are required by student's educational plans
that provide them with the best opportunity for learning. No one should judge a
charter school without getting to know its charter and the teachers that work
there. Charter schools came about because of parents' frustration with the
system and districts that do not change their curriculum for the betterment of
the child. Any child is welcome in our school. We accept students on a lottery
system; charter schools must do this. Charters also save money because we do not
need to support huge district salaries. If you wonder if charter schools do it
better, go visit one.
Budget cuts for everyone | 12:10 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
The Charter school experiment was underfunded from the get go. There was never
enough money budgeted to adequately fund public schools let alone charters.
Don't be crying now that charters have to endure the same budget cuts that public schools have endured year after year.
Funding for education in Utah is a mess and charters are just another example of a legislature that doesn't care about our children.
Don't be crying now that charters have to endure the same budget cuts that public schools have endured year after year.
Funding for education in Utah is a mess and charters are just another example of a legislature that doesn't care about our children.
Monsieur le prof | 1:19 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
Most public schools do a fantastic job of educating their students. The problem
is less with the teachers than it is with the students. Teaching is the easy
part. Trying to get spoiled kids to put away their ipods and cellphones and pay
attention is the hard part. Those parents who take interest in their
child's education will find that both public and charter schools do well,
not because of the teachers necessarily, but because of the parents'
involvement.
Public schools have the burden of taking EVERY student thrown at them, some of whom may disrupt classes and cause problems for the teacher and the rest of the students.
When comparing student achievement of students with the same socio-economic levels, studies show no difference between private, charter, and public schools.
Public schools have the burden of taking EVERY student thrown at them, some of whom may disrupt classes and cause problems for the teacher and the rest of the students.
When comparing student achievement of students with the same socio-economic levels, studies show no difference between private, charter, and public schools.
Hmm | 1:38 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
I live out-of-state and had been considering a move to Utah for a job. Looks
like my children's current school system is head-and-shoulders better
funded than Utah's districts.
Best and cheapest. | 4:37 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
Once again the attack is on by the UEA to attack the most effective and cheapest
education system in Utah. Charter schools are not the choice of the rich only
and many low-middle income families are more interested in education than the
costly political structure dominating Utah's public education system.
Charter schools are educating students more effectively and cheaper than the public system riddled with corruption and waste at the highest levels. Education funds are diverted by billions of dollars a year to fund private development and investment rather than the class rooms where it is needed. That is where the per pupil money is going.
Then the public system is riddled with illegals who pay no taxes yet they comprise 22% of the students in Utah. Teachers in public schools are forced to teach propaganda rather than knowledge. The federal level of government is dictating how and what is taught in schools in order to get federal funds. And what the federal level dictates is propaganda in schools, a mind control education system.
Charter schools are educating students more effectively and cheaper than the public system riddled with corruption and waste at the highest levels. Education funds are diverted by billions of dollars a year to fund private development and investment rather than the class rooms where it is needed. That is where the per pupil money is going.
Then the public system is riddled with illegals who pay no taxes yet they comprise 22% of the students in Utah. Teachers in public schools are forced to teach propaganda rather than knowledge. The federal level of government is dictating how and what is taught in schools in order to get federal funds. And what the federal level dictates is propaganda in schools, a mind control education system.
Ragnar | 5:40 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
Dear "Disillusioned",
There is no such thing as a "right to a good or service". When you site the Supreme Court to identify a right to a good or a service, education in this case, you reduce all rights to being things granted by government. The only "rights" are derived from the inalienable ones: life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness (including the ownership of property). With these rights an individual is free to pursue education or not as they see fit. They are not free to pursue it at their neighbor's expense. Yet this is the very system we are in now. A system of grab-what-you can rather than earn what you can.
For any other readers who support government education but despise government healthcare, are you like "disilusioned" and believe that people have a RIGHT to education? If they do then surely you believe they have a right to their health too, don't you? Or do you put education above health?
There is no such thing as a "right to a good or service". When you site the Supreme Court to identify a right to a good or a service, education in this case, you reduce all rights to being things granted by government. The only "rights" are derived from the inalienable ones: life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness (including the ownership of property). With these rights an individual is free to pursue education or not as they see fit. They are not free to pursue it at their neighbor's expense. Yet this is the very system we are in now. A system of grab-what-you can rather than earn what you can.
For any other readers who support government education but despise government healthcare, are you like "disilusioned" and believe that people have a RIGHT to education? If they do then surely you believe they have a right to their health too, don't you? Or do you put education above health?
Nichol Draper | 6:01 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
It is sad to read the comments here. Charter schools are public schools. They
accept all students and are paid for out of taxes just like the other schools.
The difference is that they have a board made up of parents of the children
rather than a school board that is half the county and unresponsive to the
children's needs. Maybe if there were more charter schools the comments
here would be written by people who were better informed.
Common sense? | 6:16 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
If charter schools cost less and work better than public schools (as most
objective studies indicate, never mind what the NEA says) then common sense
would say that we should encourage more children to attend charter schools (save
money AND educate more effectively). Instead, our legislature is planning to
make cuts that will effectively kill off some of our charter schools and we will
end up having to pay MORE to put those children back in public schools. I hope
the legislature will see the error of their ways and find a better solution.
Anonymous | 6:34 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
Just this story alone could havfe an impact on the State getting ANY Race to the
Top funds from the stimulus. Utah should be ashamed closing down what works and
leaving open what does not. Make a more sensical approach.
RE:"Cut even more" | 6:37 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
Wow looks like you have a little pride stuffed inside that mind of yours. News
flash to ALL ON THE MESSAGE BOARD, US SCHOOLS UNDERPERFORM on an international
level. So do we "fix" the problem by improving public schools or do we
try something different? I am all for trying something different and the
non-traditional approach of charter schools seems to provide better RESULTS.
I am sorry that you are so caught up in your own self loathing and hatred for the "rich" that you can't seem to figure that out. Another NEWS FLASH FOR YOU, charter schools in my area, Kaysville, select students by lottery. The lottery DOES NOT include my income. So how would they know who is "rich?"
Again I would love to "improve" public schools but since you are the ONLY PERSON on here who is trying (laughter please) it looks like you aren't getting the job done. I will elect to put in for a charter school and see what happens, because I am so "rich" NOT!!!
Some are blinded by their own self pity, they refuse to acknowledge the true problem, looks like we have one of those on here:)
I am sorry that you are so caught up in your own self loathing and hatred for the "rich" that you can't seem to figure that out. Another NEWS FLASH FOR YOU, charter schools in my area, Kaysville, select students by lottery. The lottery DOES NOT include my income. So how would they know who is "rich?"
Again I would love to "improve" public schools but since you are the ONLY PERSON on here who is trying (laughter please) it looks like you aren't getting the job done. I will elect to put in for a charter school and see what happens, because I am so "rich" NOT!!!
Some are blinded by their own self pity, they refuse to acknowledge the true problem, looks like we have one of those on here:)
to: Cut even more charter school | 7:15 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
The sheer number of grammatical errors in your comments lead me to believe that
perhaps you were not educated at a charter school like the one my children
attend. Here are some things to work on in the future:
"enough" is not spelled with a "t" at the end.
"public" is not spelled with an "s" at the end.
"use" in this context should be followed with a "d".
"rich" should end with an "h", not a "k".
When assigning ownership, it is customary to provide an apostrophe before the "s", as in "everyone's".
In this context, the spelling should be "their", not "there".
It appears that your idea of what a "public school can do" might be somewhat limited, because I don't think yours was very successful.
Here's a question: what do you think the districts will do with all those children currently attending charter schools when they show up at their already overcrowded classrooms? Charter schools are not only doing more with less, they are providing relief for a public school system that cannot handle an unprecedented level of growth in many areas.
"enough" is not spelled with a "t" at the end.
"public" is not spelled with an "s" at the end.
"use" in this context should be followed with a "d".
"rich" should end with an "h", not a "k".
When assigning ownership, it is customary to provide an apostrophe before the "s", as in "everyone's".
In this context, the spelling should be "their", not "there".
It appears that your idea of what a "public school can do" might be somewhat limited, because I don't think yours was very successful.
Here's a question: what do you think the districts will do with all those children currently attending charter schools when they show up at their already overcrowded classrooms? Charter schools are not only doing more with less, they are providing relief for a public school system that cannot handle an unprecedented level of growth in many areas.
resident | 7:18 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
stay away from Utah.. it's a freak show.. we pay for a private education -
it is really the only option in this state.
Disillusioned | 7:19 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
As a former public school UT special educator, I have SEEN Charters (and read
about Charters in research) blatently discriminate (and discriminate in hidden
ways) against those with significant disabilities. And SEGREGATE those with
disabilities. Mainstreaming is not a 'better" option. I've
experienced the charter school lie. Acceptance of students who ONLY have high
level special needs (learning disabilities, asperger's, etc.)
"special" schools only designed for "special" kids... None
of it is research based. None of it is appropriate. And then, months later,
after parents have pulled their child with special needs out of school, we would
then get the student back in the non-charter school, 6 months more delayed
because the supposed "better" educational "choice" actually
was horrible.
The day that every charter school has to actually accept EVERY child, provide free and reduced lunches, provide transportation to EVERY child, will be the day they stop lying and actually follow the laws that fund them! Until then, I think if parents can choose what public schools their kids go to, than I want to choose what public schools my tax dollars fund!!!!! P.S. Former charter school teachers agree with me!!
The day that every charter school has to actually accept EVERY child, provide free and reduced lunches, provide transportation to EVERY child, will be the day they stop lying and actually follow the laws that fund them! Until then, I think if parents can choose what public schools their kids go to, than I want to choose what public schools my tax dollars fund!!!!! P.S. Former charter school teachers agree with me!!
Real problem with public schools | 7:21 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
Everyone keeps saying that we need to fix public schools... I think that
everyone in the charter system agrees, that's why they ended up leaving.
More money won't fix public schools, it's a problem in ideology. They need to change the way they think and act by getting more in line with what parents want instead of simply telling parents how it is going to be.
How anyone could support a bureaucracy that is so wasteful and belligerent amazes me. The school districts don't care what you think; you pay taxes to them whether you like what they do or not. The changes that need to occur in public schools have nothing to do with funding.
More money won't fix public schools, it's a problem in ideology. They need to change the way they think and act by getting more in line with what parents want instead of simply telling parents how it is going to be.
How anyone could support a bureaucracy that is so wasteful and belligerent amazes me. The school districts don't care what you think; you pay taxes to them whether you like what they do or not. The changes that need to occur in public schools have nothing to do with funding.
To the "Down with Charter" | 7:21 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
"Schools needs to take a stance & get ride of the trouble makers.
Educations is not a right. but a prilage. Schools are not the baby sitters
either."
"Government at it's best."
Thank you for illustrating the value of a public education. I think that your post, more than any other post here, clearly demonstrates the need for a charter option.
"Government at it's best."
Thank you for illustrating the value of a public education. I think that your post, more than any other post here, clearly demonstrates the need for a charter option.
Anonymous | 7:30 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
How about the FACT that each Charter School student is receiving funding from
the District that they left? This is a little advertised law that passed last
Legislative Session. This was a way for the State, aka the Legislature, to say
that they were funding the Charter Schools at a much lower amount then the
District Schools, while requiring the Districts to make up part of the
difference. The law is HB 2 from the 2009 General Legislative Session. For my
school district this is costing almost $1 million dollars. Money that could
have been spent on our district children, but instead is sent to the various
Charter Schools to "equalize" funding.
To those who are saying that Charters are not hiring Certified Teachers: unless the teachers are doing an Alternative to Licensure Program, they MUST be Certified in the subjects they teach. If the teachers are not Certified, the Charter School is in breech of their Charter Contract with the State Office of Education and in violation of Utah State Law. This applies to classroom teachers-not to the classroom aides.
To those who are saying that Charters are not hiring Certified Teachers: unless the teachers are doing an Alternative to Licensure Program, they MUST be Certified in the subjects they teach. If the teachers are not Certified, the Charter School is in breech of their Charter Contract with the State Office of Education and in violation of Utah State Law. This applies to classroom teachers-not to the classroom aides.
re: Best and cheapest. | 7:36 a.m. Oct. 13, 2009
As far as what is "forced to be taught" in district schools, it is the
same as what is "forced to be taught" in charter schools. Both are
PUBLIC SCHOOLS and must follow the State Core Curriculum. The only differences
is some of the choices made in textbooks and programs used, both school systems
must use State Office of Education approved texts and programs.
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