Reader comments
Lawmakers to keep 'secret bill' option
39 comments | Read story
Kevin | 9:35 p.m. Oct. 11, 2009
Do we really need any more Bills and Laws?
Where's the outrage? | 9:45 p.m. Oct. 11, 2009
This should outrage every American! The Democratically controlled congress is
running a sneak attack on your rights and your property!
Lee | 10:08 p.m. Oct. 11, 2009
The reason for this capability is a good one. IF it is being used for the wrong
reasons, then those using it for corrupt purposes need to be targeted and
removed from office. Don't damn the many for the abuses of the few.
Comments continue below
GTO | 10:22 p.m. Oct. 11, 2009
We need to shine the light of day on these 'secret' bills. Secretly
passed laws happen in tyrannies, not in free nations. More "change" we
can believe in?
SRD | 10:23 p.m. Oct. 11, 2009
"Where's the outrage"
You do know the article is discussing the Utah Legisalture? This is a republican controlled instution.
In my opinion this is really a problem. I do not understand why tthey can't discuss the bill with the parties before it is filed. I can not understand how this does anything but limit discussion.
The legislaiture is suppose to do the people's business. How does this practice help in this process?
You do know the article is discussing the Utah Legisalture? This is a republican controlled instution.
In my opinion this is really a problem. I do not understand why tthey can't discuss the bill with the parties before it is filed. I can not understand how this does anything but limit discussion.
The legislaiture is suppose to do the people's business. How does this practice help in this process?
Anonymous | 10:30 p.m. Oct. 11, 2009
"... there are cases when a legislator wants to keep a bill private to give
him time to talk to interested parties, get educated on the subject himself and
perhaps work out compromises that will make the bill better
legislation."
Perhaps they should be doing all that BEFORE they propose the legislation instead of having secret bills?
If it is truly something urgent - that needs to be done this session - then it most definitely needs to be public right from the beginning - because if it is urgent, there are probably a lot of people who want to know what the legislature is doing about the issue and because urgent things need a lot of consideration.
If it is not urgent, then it does not need to be proposed in secret.
Perhaps they should be doing all that BEFORE they propose the legislation instead of having secret bills?
If it is truly something urgent - that needs to be done this session - then it most definitely needs to be public right from the beginning - because if it is urgent, there are probably a lot of people who want to know what the legislature is doing about the issue and because urgent things need a lot of consideration.
If it is not urgent, then it does not need to be proposed in secret.
Frank | 10:41 p.m. Oct. 11, 2009
I think the article says, that even though the Bills may be secret for a period
of time, each Bill must be publicly filed and there must also be a public
hearing before any Bill can be passed.
However, I believe that there should be a cut off date for the public filing, with plenty of time for the public hearing thereafter to be properly advertised and attended by any who have an interest in debating the Bill.
We must do everyting in ur power to allow the public to know the content of "every" action taken by our elected representatives, in order that our freedoms may be protected.
However, I believe that there should be a cut off date for the public filing, with plenty of time for the public hearing thereafter to be properly advertised and attended by any who have an interest in debating the Bill.
We must do everyting in ur power to allow the public to know the content of "every" action taken by our elected representatives, in order that our freedoms may be protected.
SRD | 10:46 p.m. Oct. 11, 2009
Lee, I blame the leadership of the legislature that allows this practice to go
on.
GTO, did you read the article? This is a practice of the "Utah Legislature." So why the swipe at the Obama Administration?
GTO, did you read the article? This is a practice of the "Utah Legislature." So why the swipe at the Obama Administration?
Secrecy | 10:54 p.m. Oct. 11, 2009
in government is almost always a bad thing.
Anonymous | 2:09 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
The Utah legislature is one of the secret combinations we have been warned
about.
We should pass a bill that says for every new law the legislature passes, one old one must be done away with.
We should pass a bill that says for every new law the legislature passes, one old one must be done away with.
Manipulation of the process | 2:09 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
I see this year after year.
Bills are entroduced in the last hours of the legislature.
They are purposefully held by the leadership until the end of the session and are voted on recommendation from the leadership in the last hours of the sessionn.
No public imput, their fellow legislators do not have time to read it.
Manipulation of the process by the Legislative leadership for their own advantage.
Bills are entroduced in the last hours of the legislature.
They are purposefully held by the leadership until the end of the session and are voted on recommendation from the leadership in the last hours of the sessionn.
No public imput, their fellow legislators do not have time to read it.
Manipulation of the process by the Legislative leadership for their own advantage.
Open government. | 3:52 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Sounds like we need some major changes in how bills are introduced.
Change it so that all new legislation must be presented to their subordinate workers and aids to post prior to the general session and once the session starts no new bills can be introduced. These legislators know full well in advance what bills they are going to introduce. By an early posting of bills should give any and all of them time to 'educate' themselves of new legislation before they even meet in general session.
All legislators, even though part time, must spend some time during the off session to his duties where he can revue and educate himself before the general session.
Putting a ban on new legislation after the session starts would be the best process. How can these legislators expect to educate themselves on hundreds of bills in 45 days? They have the rest of the year to get educated then debate and vote on them in the sessions. I think that's the way its supposed to work.
Change it so that all new legislation must be presented to their subordinate workers and aids to post prior to the general session and once the session starts no new bills can be introduced. These legislators know full well in advance what bills they are going to introduce. By an early posting of bills should give any and all of them time to 'educate' themselves of new legislation before they even meet in general session.
All legislators, even though part time, must spend some time during the off session to his duties where he can revue and educate himself before the general session.
Putting a ban on new legislation after the session starts would be the best process. How can these legislators expect to educate themselves on hundreds of bills in 45 days? They have the rest of the year to get educated then debate and vote on them in the sessions. I think that's the way its supposed to work.
Why is this news? | 6:12 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Any student of political history knows sneaky legislation has happened for
centuries.
Each party says they are right, the other is crooked. Partisanship has replaced Citizenship in the USA.
We've learned to look beneath the hoopla for what is being done quietly. The aftermath of 9/11 brought us the Patriot Act.
Mark my words, a lot of sneaky legislation is being passed while the "health care" shouting gets front page.
Same happens in Utah and every other state.
Each party says they are right, the other is crooked. Partisanship has replaced Citizenship in the USA.
We've learned to look beneath the hoopla for what is being done quietly. The aftermath of 9/11 brought us the Patriot Act.
Mark my words, a lot of sneaky legislation is being passed while the "health care" shouting gets front page.
Same happens in Utah and every other state.
Thibodeaux & Boudreaux | 6:15 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Sounds like something they do in Louisiana.
SDR the swipe was at the Democratically controlled Congress, not Obama. Remember those two are separate.
SDR the swipe was at the Democratically controlled Congress, not Obama. Remember those two are separate.
Single Party Rule | 6:36 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Our constitution designed checks and balances into the system. Needing to
convince at least two parties to pass a law is one of the most fundamental
checks and balances we have, yet right now we do not have it either in state or
federal government.
The democrats control Washington with a filibuster proof majority in the senate, an huge majority in the house and the white house. Republicans have controlled the Utah legislature, governor's mansion and courts for decades. They hold closed caucus meetings where they twist arms, then go out in public and vote.
We need balance both in Washington and it Salt Lake City. Finding good democrats to send to the legislature is as important as finding good republicans to send to Washington. We need this balance.
This corruption was foretold in scripture as secret combinations and other works of darkness. It is our duty to fix it.
The democrats control Washington with a filibuster proof majority in the senate, an huge majority in the house and the white house. Republicans have controlled the Utah legislature, governor's mansion and courts for decades. They hold closed caucus meetings where they twist arms, then go out in public and vote.
We need balance both in Washington and it Salt Lake City. Finding good democrats to send to the legislature is as important as finding good republicans to send to Washington. We need this balance.
This corruption was foretold in scripture as secret combinations and other works of darkness. It is our duty to fix it.
Just Stop It! | 7:05 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Stop the unlimired campaign donations, and lobbyist under the table gifts and
money. This is the problem with our "corrupt system in Utah and the US. We
go around blaming others for disfunctional governments when in fact the whole
system in Utah and America is totally corrupt itself. Leave others alone and
clean up your own house!
Surprised? | 7:55 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Why does the practice described in this article surprise anyone?
The Utah Legislature has exempted itself from the Open and Public Meetings Act, the Government Records Access and Management Act, and various public ethics statutes. And it has minimal, almost non-existent, campaign finance laws--which actually allow legislators to take money with them when they leave office (and jump into their consulting/lobbying careers) and to spend campaign donations on whatever they like while in office.
All this comes from too much concentration of power in the hands of a few.
What we need is some balance--and this comes from a life-long Republican.
The Utah Legislature has exempted itself from the Open and Public Meetings Act, the Government Records Access and Management Act, and various public ethics statutes. And it has minimal, almost non-existent, campaign finance laws--which actually allow legislators to take money with them when they leave office (and jump into their consulting/lobbying careers) and to spend campaign donations on whatever they like while in office.
All this comes from too much concentration of power in the hands of a few.
What we need is some balance--and this comes from a life-long Republican.
Grover | 8:09 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
This article would be much stronger with a few examples of bills that were filed
late and then ended up becoming law. As it is, the story is just that the
process exists without proof of the damage done.
Micah | 8:18 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
This is one of the worst articles written by the DesNews. If you look, they
have no hard and fast numbers of bills that were introduced late in the session.
They have a "citizen activist" who "ticked off a number of
bills" that she claims to have fought against at the last minute, but they
don't name any of those or even give a number of how many she could
name.
There is nothing but speculation regarding the average number of bills introduced vs. how many have been made public as of October 1. The session doesn't begin until the middle of January, there is still plenty of time to publish the "average of seven bills" proposed by each legislator.
There is nothing but speculation regarding the average number of bills introduced vs. how many have been made public as of October 1. The session doesn't begin until the middle of January, there is still plenty of time to publish the "average of seven bills" proposed by each legislator.
Legislature | 8:54 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
The leges needs to take a lead from Obuma...Just claim that if they don't
sign the bill without reading it, the world economy will collapse and then when
the economy does collapse...blame Bush!
Out of control | 9:06 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
What ever happened to "by the people, for the people"?
WB | 9:07 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
How many people commenting on this article have ever studied and watched how a
bill becomes a law in Utah? Thankfully the process in Utah is significantly
faster and more efficient than in the U.S. Congress.
Sometimes, I've kept plans for a fun family trip a "secret" from my kids until those plans were a little more set in stone. I do this not to surprise them, but more because I want to avoid the incessant questions and the exaggerated speculations that my very active kids tend to create.
What isn't a secret is that the media (even this paper) tends to grab hold of any story they think will sell and create articles with incessant questions and exaggerated speculations. There is a time and place for public debate on legislative issues, but those are better left for when bills are more developed and ready for scrutiny.
If there are legislators who consistently use this flexibility as a political tool to "sneak" in bills (which I don't think happens nearly as often as this article insinuates), then the citizens in their district are responsible to find out and remove them from office.
Sometimes, I've kept plans for a fun family trip a "secret" from my kids until those plans were a little more set in stone. I do this not to surprise them, but more because I want to avoid the incessant questions and the exaggerated speculations that my very active kids tend to create.
What isn't a secret is that the media (even this paper) tends to grab hold of any story they think will sell and create articles with incessant questions and exaggerated speculations. There is a time and place for public debate on legislative issues, but those are better left for when bills are more developed and ready for scrutiny.
If there are legislators who consistently use this flexibility as a political tool to "sneak" in bills (which I don't think happens nearly as often as this article insinuates), then the citizens in their district are responsible to find out and remove them from office.
Kevin in the Terrace | 9:19 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
The amount of time that bills must be made public should be extended. Holding an
unpopular bill secret to gain a political advantage is wrong.
WB | 9:25 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Single Party Rule, where in the US Constitution does it set up a two party
system for a check and balance? It doesn't.
Legislators don't have to "convince at least two parties to pass a law", they have to convince a majority of the representatives elected into the Congress or the Legislature by the people.
So one main solution is to educate and motivate more people to be involved and to contact their legislators directly if they do something questionable. When I worked as an intern at the state legislature over a decade ago, less than 10 constituents actually contacted my senator (a member of senate leadership) during the entire session.
The people are the ultimate check on the government. If we aren't involved because of our apathy and ignorance, then no amount of structural reform will solve the problem.
Legislators don't have to "convince at least two parties to pass a law", they have to convince a majority of the representatives elected into the Congress or the Legislature by the people.
So one main solution is to educate and motivate more people to be involved and to contact their legislators directly if they do something questionable. When I worked as an intern at the state legislature over a decade ago, less than 10 constituents actually contacted my senator (a member of senate leadership) during the entire session.
The people are the ultimate check on the government. If we aren't involved because of our apathy and ignorance, then no amount of structural reform will solve the problem.
To WB | 9:47 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
"Sometimes, I've kept plans for a fun family trip a "secret"
from my kids until those plans were a little more set in stone. I do this not to
surprise them, but more because I want to avoid the incessant questions and the
exaggerated speculations that my very active kids tend to create."
Not a very good analogy to use here. First, planning and anticipating a trip is half the fun. Too bad your children are denied this sometimes just to make your life easier.
The legislature works for US! They are not our parents that know better. They are not our superiors that rule us with any trickery that they can find to pass laws that benefit themselves and their lobbyists contributors. See where I am going with this? Why not have adult, civil conversations with the people you really represent rather than quickly put a bill forward so that you do not have days and days of answering questions. Lazy ingrates.
Not a very good analogy to use here. First, planning and anticipating a trip is half the fun. Too bad your children are denied this sometimes just to make your life easier.
The legislature works for US! They are not our parents that know better. They are not our superiors that rule us with any trickery that they can find to pass laws that benefit themselves and their lobbyists contributors. See where I am going with this? Why not have adult, civil conversations with the people you really represent rather than quickly put a bill forward so that you do not have days and days of answering questions. Lazy ingrates.
Re: WB | 10:02 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Have you ever had a bill targeted directly at your means of
production/employment?
I didn't think so. It's a huge pain to have to deal with know-it-alls in the state leg, and different businesses who think they should be able to tell everyone what's best for them, and legislate anything else out of existence.
That's a bigger problem, IMO. The majority telling everyone else how to live or work.
I didn't think so. It's a huge pain to have to deal with know-it-alls in the state leg, and different businesses who think they should be able to tell everyone what's best for them, and legislate anything else out of existence.
That's a bigger problem, IMO. The majority telling everyone else how to live or work.
Just like the Good Ol' Days | 10:38 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
One Party Rule, One Party State--Just like in the Soviet Union. Ain't it
glorious, Comrades?
Box Car Bills | 11:19 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
The article gave a good general overview of boxcar bills, but I have to agree
with Micah. Where are the actual examples of secret bills that have been
introduced? Where is the list of Utah Legislators who are abusing this process?
What are the most frequent types of bills introduced this way(environmental
bills? Ethics? Energy Solutions bills? Anti-gay legislation?)?
Answering those questions would be helpful.
Answering those questions would be helpful.
DR Don | 11:19 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
"One Party Rule, One Party State--Just like in the Soviet Union. Ain't
it glorious, Comrades?"
Just like Massachusetts, Louisiana, Illinois - those bastions of Democratic freedom. One party rule is never good, no matter which party it is!
Just like Massachusetts, Louisiana, Illinois - those bastions of Democratic freedom. One party rule is never good, no matter which party it is!
laughable | 12:41 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Just like the Good Ol' Days
Your comment is laughable.
"One Party Rule, One Party State--Just like in the Soviet Union. Ain't it glorious, Comrades?"
Aren't you forgetting one teeny tiny difference?
Seems the Soviets lacked something we enjoy here in the good ol' U.S. of A. It's called an election. You ought to try attending one if you're dissapointed in the balance of power.
Your comment is laughable.
"One Party Rule, One Party State--Just like in the Soviet Union. Ain't it glorious, Comrades?"
Aren't you forgetting one teeny tiny difference?
Seems the Soviets lacked something we enjoy here in the good ol' U.S. of A. It's called an election. You ought to try attending one if you're dissapointed in the balance of power.
Stay out of MY business fascist | 2:00 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Anonymous | 10:30 p.m.
"Perhaps they should be doing all that BEFORE they propose the legislation instead of having secret bills?"
Legislation is drafted by the non-partisan Office of Legislative Research and General Counsel. Utah doesn't have legislators drafting legislation on their home computers so they need to work with the Office of Legislative Research, interested parties and become educated on it as it is being drafted.
They may then decide to not pass the bill out of the drafting stage.
"If it is truly something urgent - that needs to be done this session - then it most definitely needs to be public right from the beginning - because if it is urgent, there are probably a lot of people who want to know what the legislature is doing about the issue and because urgent things need a lot of consideration."
"If it is not urgent, then it does not need to be proposed in secret."
It's not being proposed in secret. If you knew anything about the democratic process you wouldn't say this. Until my legislator decides to propose something publically IT IS NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS. Talk to your neighbor whgo represents you.
"Perhaps they should be doing all that BEFORE they propose the legislation instead of having secret bills?"
Legislation is drafted by the non-partisan Office of Legislative Research and General Counsel. Utah doesn't have legislators drafting legislation on their home computers so they need to work with the Office of Legislative Research, interested parties and become educated on it as it is being drafted.
They may then decide to not pass the bill out of the drafting stage.
"If it is truly something urgent - that needs to be done this session - then it most definitely needs to be public right from the beginning - because if it is urgent, there are probably a lot of people who want to know what the legislature is doing about the issue and because urgent things need a lot of consideration."
"If it is not urgent, then it does not need to be proposed in secret."
It's not being proposed in secret. If you knew anything about the democratic process you wouldn't say this. Until my legislator decides to propose something publically IT IS NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS. Talk to your neighbor whgo represents you.
They need to mind their business | 2:09 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
TO: WB
"There is a time and place for public debate on legislative issues, but those are better left for when bills are more developed and ready for scrutiny."
One of the basis of our democratic republic is that our representatives are able to draft bills without public scrutiny and they only become public when those legislators make them public. This happens on the federal level where individual Legislators have their own staffs that costs between $1 million and $5 million and in Utah where legislators share the same staff. I don't need to read or discuss a bill that may never be numbered or given a title and placed before the Legislature.
"If there are legislators who consistently use this flexibility as a political tool to "sneak" in bills (which I don't think happens nearly as often as this article insinuates), then the citizens in their district are responsible to find out and remove them from office."
I totally agree. If you don't like this practice then you can choose to let your legislators know how you feel but my legislator represents me and not some busybody across the state. Mind your own dman business!!!
"There is a time and place for public debate on legislative issues, but those are better left for when bills are more developed and ready for scrutiny."
One of the basis of our democratic republic is that our representatives are able to draft bills without public scrutiny and they only become public when those legislators make them public. This happens on the federal level where individual Legislators have their own staffs that costs between $1 million and $5 million and in Utah where legislators share the same staff. I don't need to read or discuss a bill that may never be numbered or given a title and placed before the Legislature.
"If there are legislators who consistently use this flexibility as a political tool to "sneak" in bills (which I don't think happens nearly as often as this article insinuates), then the citizens in their district are responsible to find out and remove them from office."
I totally agree. If you don't like this practice then you can choose to let your legislators know how you feel but my legislator represents me and not some busybody across the state. Mind your own dman business!!!
I vote to ban UR's from speakin | 2:16 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
To WB | 9:47 a.m. Oct. 12, 2009
"Not a very good analogy to use here."
Actually, his analogy is perfect. The fact that you don't get it only means that you don't agree with him but you have no more right to compel him or his legislator to agree with you then he does to force your legislator to draft bills in secret and not to comment on them publically until it is given a name and numbered.
"The legislature works for US! They are not our parents that know better. They are not our superiors that rule us with any trickery that they can find to pass laws that benefit themselves and their lobbyists contributors. See where I am going with this?"
You don't rule us and you won't force my representative to do as you say. Do YOU SEE WHERE I AM GOING WITH THIS? Or do you believe your opinion is right and that you can tell me and my legislator what to do. How about this? If you can compel mine to release bills before he wants to then I will compel yours to keep his mouth shut.
"Not a very good analogy to use here."
Actually, his analogy is perfect. The fact that you don't get it only means that you don't agree with him but you have no more right to compel him or his legislator to agree with you then he does to force your legislator to draft bills in secret and not to comment on them publically until it is given a name and numbered.
"The legislature works for US! They are not our parents that know better. They are not our superiors that rule us with any trickery that they can find to pass laws that benefit themselves and their lobbyists contributors. See where I am going with this?"
You don't rule us and you won't force my representative to do as you say. Do YOU SEE WHERE I AM GOING WITH THIS? Or do you believe your opinion is right and that you can tell me and my legislator what to do. How about this? If you can compel mine to release bills before he wants to then I will compel yours to keep his mouth shut.
re laughable | 2:19 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
They voted in the old Communist Bloc countries, same as here--same party came
out the winner every time. Curious, isn't it???
To Editor Des News | 2:24 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
The article pointed out some research had already been don on those bills not
publicly announced at some point.
A spreadsheet by the paper would be very informative and help us understand as pointed out by several posters
Some heading might include
Bill number
Date Posted
Introduced by
Subject (answer could be "secret"
Disposition (Introduced,Canceled,Past, Combined)
As your arti can't even do any research if Icle stands, I have benifitted by the process or if I should push for a change or not.
What was your purpose for the article? If it was to motivate others to demand change, you only got half way there. What's Next?
A spreadsheet by the paper would be very informative and help us understand as pointed out by several posters
Some heading might include
Bill number
Date Posted
Introduced by
Subject (answer could be "secret"
Disposition (Introduced,Canceled,Past, Combined)
As your arti can't even do any research if Icle stands, I have benifitted by the process or if I should push for a change or not.
What was your purpose for the article? If it was to motivate others to demand change, you only got half way there. What's Next?
American - not an R or D | 2:54 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
To "Single Party Rule"
I fully agree with your comment about the importance of checks and balances. I disagree that these two parties were ever intended to be political camps. The checks and balances on the federal level were to be between the Representatives (elected by the people) and the Senators (selected by the State government).
We lost one of our critical checks when the constitution was amended to allow for the popular election of the senate (who are therefore beholden to special interests who funded there campaigns instead of the State they come from). Now both houses of Congress can be bought and corruption is rampant.
Unfortunately with secrecy in the state legislature and questionable funding/reporting/gifting practices, the corruption in our State government doesn't seem to be much better.
I fully agree with your comment about the importance of checks and balances. I disagree that these two parties were ever intended to be political camps. The checks and balances on the federal level were to be between the Representatives (elected by the people) and the Senators (selected by the State government).
We lost one of our critical checks when the constitution was amended to allow for the popular election of the senate (who are therefore beholden to special interests who funded there campaigns instead of the State they come from). Now both houses of Congress can be bought and corruption is rampant.
Unfortunately with secrecy in the state legislature and questionable funding/reporting/gifting practices, the corruption in our State government doesn't seem to be much better.
Adam | 3:19 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
This is a completely reasonable and pro-good-government policy. It allows
legislators to consult with their staff and consider ideas that may get rejected
or dropped after being kicked around for a while. It saves the taxpayer a lot
of money, and allows the free flow of ideas for ideas sake rather than
politicking by the papers or special interests. Once an idea is decided upon,
it's brought out in a public manner for public discussion. What's
wrong with that?
Let legislators discuss and thin about ideas in private with their advisors and vet the ideas for legal and policy issues before wasting the public's time with them. Then, if they think the idea works, they can write it up and show it to the public for discussion--that's the process, and it's a good one.
What a stupid article. Those belly-achers in the comments and on the byline are either ignorant of the process or should know better.
Let legislators discuss and thin about ideas in private with their advisors and vet the ideas for legal and policy issues before wasting the public's time with them. Then, if they think the idea works, they can write it up and show it to the public for discussion--that's the process, and it's a good one.
What a stupid article. Those belly-achers in the comments and on the byline are either ignorant of the process or should know better.
Time Card them for Batroom break | 4:30 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
TO: Adam
I wholeheartedly agree. Those posting here that a legislator drafting a bill in secret is wrong are ignorant of the democratic process. We elect them to perform this function, to consider alternatives, discuss ideas, become educated and draft bills that make sense and we expect them to do this before the bill is presented to the public or legislature for a vote.
Those who are criticizing legislators for doing their jobs because they are busy-bodies who can't accept that they are just voters like the rest of us and who feel a need to shove their noses where they don't belong will learn sooner or later that the legislative process is not fully transparent because legislators need to maintain secrecy as they develop bills and get them ready for a full discussion and vote.
Why would these people "let legislators discuss and think about ideas in private with their advisors and vet the ideas for legal and policy issues before wasting the publics tim with them" when they are so important, awesome, great, intelligent and have a right to know what our legislators are doing at all times including potty breaks.
I wholeheartedly agree. Those posting here that a legislator drafting a bill in secret is wrong are ignorant of the democratic process. We elect them to perform this function, to consider alternatives, discuss ideas, become educated and draft bills that make sense and we expect them to do this before the bill is presented to the public or legislature for a vote.
Those who are criticizing legislators for doing their jobs because they are busy-bodies who can't accept that they are just voters like the rest of us and who feel a need to shove their noses where they don't belong will learn sooner or later that the legislative process is not fully transparent because legislators need to maintain secrecy as they develop bills and get them ready for a full discussion and vote.
Why would these people "let legislators discuss and think about ideas in private with their advisors and vet the ideas for legal and policy issues before wasting the publics tim with them" when they are so important, awesome, great, intelligent and have a right to know what our legislators are doing at all times including potty breaks.
Anonymous | 6:31 p.m. Oct. 12, 2009
Sounds like the legslature got there "cheraing" sections out. There
is no justification for the sneaky politicas that go on in this state.
THe legslative process needs to be open with all of the interested parties having enough time to discuss and if necessary block bad legisaltion.
I can't beleve that anyone would try to defend this practice.
THe legslative process needs to be open with all of the interested parties having enough time to discuss and if necessary block bad legisaltion.
I can't beleve that anyone would try to defend this practice.
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