If people in the military can say they are Homosexual or Heterosexual how should
they do that? I mean clearly for a gay guy to make advances toward another man
would be as inappropriate in the workplace as a man making advances on a woman.
Clearly Unacceptable. So how should this Homosexual person "Come out of the
closet"? Should they simply walk around and tell everyone they are homosexual?
What advantages does that bring? How does that help anyone be a better soldier?
Furthermore, to those who have never served, basic training, and many other
times in the military there is no privacy. We have open showers, living in
close quarters with another person, and other such communal living situations.
The same as most females would not be comfortable in those situations with a
heterosexual man I, as a male soldier, would not be comfortable in those
situations with a homosexual man. Do we need to have every state their sexual
orientation when they join so that we can prevent those situations? How will
restrooms work? I have equal rights to, I should not be forced into situations
I am not comfortable with.
Chad: I'd like to make a few points about your post.1. You're not the only
one currently serving in Afghanistan or Iraq, so don't speak for all of us. 2. I can't believe you're insulting other services while you claim to present
an argument 'protecting' our military. How about you learn some respect for your
fellow servicemen and women. 3. Our military would quite literally
cripple if all the gay soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines left today. Yes,
there are soldiers in your unit who are gay, and no, they are not automatically
attracted to YOU and are not going to make advances toward YOU just because they
are. Don't flatter yourself. One should never let the vocal minority create a
stereotype for all people of a certain group.The current sexual harassment
and sexual assault policies in the military ALREADY PROTECT YOU from what you're
worried about when you assume that any gay man would proposition you. There is
no need for DADT, it is redundant for the problems you claim gays cause. Oh, and before you assume I'm a 'gay sailor'- I'm a U.S. Marine Staff
I can't believe anyone who says it is natural or normal.HOw can any
say it it is natural or normal to want sodomize another male?Do we
really wnat to become a country that embraces any kind of decadence or
immoraltiy?I think DADT was the best way of dealing with it.
anon 12:55, you could be correct, but I hesitate to speak for Bob any more than
I already have.
What seems to be missing here is any discussion of whether or not straight
soldiers endure any constraints about discussing their sexuality. In order to be
fair, a Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy would have to apply to both straights and
gays – or it is a flawed policy.Can't wait to read about the
straights that are being bounced for indicating their 'sexual preference.'
lost in DCActually, lost, Ultra probably knows and respects more gay
men than he realizes. Because of his overt bias, they will not mention their
homosexuality to him. It is his loss because he will never be able to see the
wide spectrum of individuals that are gay. Instead, he will only see those that
he "knows" are gay and they fit his preconceived idea of what gay men are.Too bad.
anon 11:59, I'll defend Ultra Bob. He speaks from his experience,
which leads him not to respect gay men. I have a different experience, where
there are some gay men I respect and some I do not, just as there are some
straight men I respect and some I don't. Do not condemn Ultra Bob
because the gay men he has met did not earn his respect. there is a difference
between accepting them, or even respecting them in society and trusting one with
your life. He apparently does not feel he could trust them with his life as
military comrades must.
I wonder if there was a draft how many young men would claim to be gay.I
also wonder if the rules of dadt would be changed.
Ultra Bob | 11:12 a.m. Oct. 8, 2009 "While at my age there is little
chance that I will serve in the military."Thank goodness that you
won't!Gays are Americans too. You would have to be fighting for
their freedoms along with those who are like you. I don't think you could do
that with your bias.I am thrilled that the generations that are
upcoming are much less biased and much more open minded than those of the
past.America is for all law abiding citizens - not just those that
While at my age there is little chance that I will serve in the military.
However due to my extreme prejudice against gay men, if I did, I would not
willingly serve with a Gay person. Throughout my life, the gay men
that I have worked with and met otherwise have not been men whom I could respect
or share my survival with. I realize that I am probably out of touch with the
rest of the world but none the less that’s where I am.If I did
not know a person was gay, I would be much more likely to judge him equally as
other men than I would if I knew he was gay. For me, Don’t
ask Don’t tell was a good policy.
If, as Michael Ash says, troubling statements by past prophets can be
disregarded because they were speaking as men not prophets (after 100 years of
taking their words as prophets not men). Then how do we know all the
prohibitions against homosexulaity in the bible weren't the words of men not
"I don't think Mr Choi had to "lie" about his sexual orientatin, he just did not
have to "advertise" it."Is a lie of ommission still a lie? Is
telling half truths lying?I say yes. That is how I was taught.When people in your unit ask what you did during your time off, what do
Congratulations to Dan Choi for speaking the truth. The military's policy about
homosexuality is based on so many misconceptions. It's more than obvious that
gays are just as patriotic and soldierly as their straight colleagues. Not only
that, but gays (just like straights) are perfectly capable of keeping their
workplace duties separate from their off-duty sexual lives. And it's a rare gay
(in or out of the military) who wants to sleep with a straight man or woman. We
allow straight people to be their whole selves (including their sexual selves)
and it's way past time to accord the same status to gays. To do otherwise is
bigoted and inhumane.
"True, other militaries allow homosexuals, and those of us that serve along side
them know very well that sodomy and rape are huge problems that they have to
deal with."First, thank you for your service and as a mother of a
marine, Thanks to your Mom and Dad too.Now, please explain what this
sentence means. Could you expound upon what you were trying to say? Who has to
deal with sodomy? What does rape have to do with homosexuals serving in the
military?Please help me understand.
If people don't want others who are supportive of the nation and skilled in
foreign languages to be in the military so be it. If we do not want qualified
men and women who can support the mission then keep them out. It is the life of
of our sons and daughters. It is not like the military would turn into
Re: ". . . we are ordered to lie about who we are."Sorry, Cadet,
that's a lie. What military members are ordered to do is keep their
sexual orientation to themselves. To suggest the military is the source of this
former officer's disgrace is, pure and simple, a lie.This officer
could have remained on active duty and served honorably for as long as he
wanted. HE is the one that chose to violate "don't ask, don't tell, not the
Army. HE is the one who is now lying to try and advance his agenda.Sadly, it looks like this cadet learned very little from his West Point and
military experience.But that was HIS choice, not the Army's.
Mink, I feel sorry for you and hope that someday you can learn that posts are
not for attacking or vehemance. They are for discussion.I don't
understand why people are gay.I don't understand all the military
needs.I don't really want to EVER read or hear about people's sexual
orientation, activities or persuasions.But, I do understand acceptance and
compassion for all is God's way. I do know that there are many things I do that
others find offensive. I appreciate that they do not feel they have to lecture
me about it continually.I would prefer that military and sexual
orientation declarations did not have to exist. But, we are all human.
Sensual. Carnal. Imperfect.I wish we were all smarter, too. Smart enough
to stop the wars, give up the verbal abuse, and have peace in our hearts.
I am currently serving in combat in Afghanistan and I am glad that the military
has morals and has rules against being openly homosexual. In fact, we would be
better off if we repealed DADT and straight out prohibited homosexuality in the
ranks. True, other militaries allow homosexuals, and those of us that serve
along side them know very well that sodomy and rape are huge problems that they
have to deal with. If you think that the military is missing out on well
qualified recruits because of our policy, think about all of the highly
qualified soldiers, like me, who will resign if the military decides to allow
homosexuals to serve openly. RE:Anonymous guy in the Navy, we Army
guys already know the Navy has homosexuals in its ranks.
Religion is about belief so changing belief or admitting to not believing as
others do is reason enough to change religions. The goal of the military is not
sexuality. Military is for defense and offense. "Coming out" or not is
irrelevant to the purpose of the military itself. The reality is that unwanted
sexual advances in the military are a heterosexual issue and not the homosexual
issue. That is just a simple fact supported by verifiable numbers.
Why can England and Australia have openly gay soldiers and not have problems
with it?Why do Americans have to make such a big deal out of
nothing? If they want to serve their country, (and bless them for
that desire), LET THEM!Get over your homophobia, US!
do those complaining about DADT want to go back to the way it was before?Poor, deluded gays. Don't you realize the dems know they have your
votes sewn up? Since they know they have your votes locked up, your issues are
extremely low on their priority list. I saw an interview with the
leader of a gay rights organization last night. He plans to protest The
Annointed One at a gay dinner in DC. He said The Annointed One had given them
hope hope, now he wanted change. It's funny and sad to see that this guy
actually believed The Annointed One would deliver on his campaign promises. Even NBC's SNL has seen that The Annointed One has delivered on very
little and did a skit poking fun at His Annointedness.
Good riddens! All of you who support this perverse destructive lifestyle need to
think about homosexuality and its effect on the family. It's one of the biggest
lies being advanced today. I won't accept your perversion. If you want to live
your life like this fine, but don't make the rest of us thinks it"s "normal"!
@Night in a fox hole | 6:46 a.m. Oct. 8, 2009"Spend a night in a fox hole
with a fellow soldier and you will understand why this policy exists."You insult the professionalism of all soldiers, gay and straight.
The military is about discipline. Any sexual feelings should be schooled while
in military service. That's what our service men and women are there for to
defend not to think about their sexuality. Use your leave time to worry about
your personal issues including sexuality.
Two comments: 1st,Choi knew the rules before he joined the military, so what is
the fuss about? If I join the Jewish church and latter deside to admitt that
I'm Christian - should the Jewish church feel bad or change for me?2nd.
RE: Audrey - I agree with your statement except for your statement that your
color defines you. If I'm white, blace, or yellow it doesn't matter. It is
what I do with my life that defines me.
Nearly every developed nation allows their Gay & Lesbian soldiers to serve
honorably and honestly. The US is nearly the very last country which requires
its Gay & Lesbian soldiers to lie a obut their families and loved ones.I find it very disingenuous for post here to claim, "Just keep your mouth shut
and don't say anything." They are not asked to hid their wife, husband,
children, religion or any other fact about themselves from their co-workers.
Consider every day in conversation "What did you do this weekend" making up lies
and dancing around the truth to pacify someone else's prejudice against you.Hypocritically, we went to Iraq to bring them "Freedom", thousands and
thousands of soldiers have died for "Freedom", but the soldiers serving and
dying are denied their own freedoms.By the way, get over yourselves,
you are not that hot. What makes you think gays and lesbians will be making
sexual advances towards you?FACT - Far, far more men make sexual
advances toward women that result in even rape! The US military has far more
problems around sex from Heterosexuals than they do from Homosexuals.
We should move along and stop obsessing over another's sexual life. While
sexual behavior does not belong in the work place, neither does the work place
belong in people's bedrooms. Just do the job and leave the rest of it alone.
Attitudes adjust, and just as the military resisted blacks then changed, so too
will the military adjust to gays.
"Choi said "we are ordered to lie about who we are.""What???Okay, first of all, if you think being gay is who you are, you need to
get out and live...a lot! People who consider their sexual orientation as
defining who they are are misguided. Being black, white, yellow...that's who
you are. Being a woman or a man...that's who you are. Being a vet of this
country, a mother, a father, a friend or foe...that's who you are. Who you
decide to sleep with is not who you are. It's what you do.I agree
with the "don't ask don't tell" rule on all levels including religon unless a
question is asked conserning such topics then it's open to discussion.
Spend a night in a fox hole with a fellow soldier and you will understand why
this policy exists. The last thing you need to be talking about is the other
guy's attraction to you. Nights I spent in close quarters with other guys in
awkward conditions made the need for outlawing this issue very clear.Having been a cop in the military, I enforced lots of rules that do not exist
in the civilian world, all needed to support the military's mission. It is not
a right to serve in the military. Military members make all kinds of sacrifices
to serve. Not talking about one's sexual orientation is small compared to the
I've been in the Navy for 10 years. On my first ship, I had to outprocess one
of my best guys because he decided to come out of the closet about his
sexuality. The thing is, most of knew he was gay, we just didn't talk about it,
and frankly I don't think anyone cared. His sexual orientation didn't define
him. He was one of us, our brother in arms. As far as unit cohesiveness, I can
tell you, him being in my division absolutely did NOT hurt morale or cohesion.
The thing I see most often negatively affecting cohesion is male/female
relationships. America has decided that female's contributions to mission
accomplishment outweigh any negative result of having them serve, but we won't
accept that gay Americans can equally contribute despite a few ignorant people
My family has a fairly large number of members who have served or are currently
serving in the military and they all pretty much agree that being propositioned
by someone of the same sex was distracting to the military mission, especially
during combat duty. (In all fairness, I have to say that most of them felt ANY
romantic activity detracted from the ability of the troops to do their
duty--especially in close quarters, such as ships at sea.) My feeling is
that the "don't ask, don't tell" policy was not designed to make liars out of
our soldiers--it was to make sure that people didn't make unwanted advances to
their fellow soldiers. Same reason that sexual activity between officers and
enlisted troops is forbidden. All of this leads to problems that weaken the
fighting ability and concentration of the military. And, hey, guys, that's the
purpose of the military--make war not love.
I wish Christians wouldn't advertise themselves so much (don’t they do the
same thing that they accuse gays of doin’? “Advertise” and
“shovin’” down others throat) ... maybe we should have a
“don’t ask don't tell” for them... I won't ask and you don't
@Dave | 6:34 p.m. Oct. 7, 2009"When I was in the service, prior to the
don't ask don't tell days, we had a couple of gays in our outfit (we did not
refer to them as "gays" then), and it was a detraction to the cohesiveness of
our unit."How? How was it a detraction to the cohesiveness of your
unit? Were these people making unwanted propositions? We're they engaging in
sexual activity in some inappropriate time or place? If they were, I might
agree with you. If they were not, I think maybe you were the problem to unit
I think Daniel Choi is a great advocate for the GLBT community and I was honored
to have him as a guest on my show. He is an example of why the DADT policy
should be banned and that the military should allow them to serve if they want.
We are losing too many well educated individuals to this horrible policy
meanwhile we allow criminals to enlist - makes no sense to me at all. The
American public wants to see this end and so I wish that President Obama and
Congress and the Senate finally do something.
I disagree with Dan in his main premise. I don't think they're ordered to lie
to others about who they are. They are simply ordered to not talk about it.
There is a big difference between intentionally telling others a lie and not
telling them something that is true about you. There are many things that are
true about me that I choose not to tell others. There are several reasons I
choose not to tell others about some things about me. Sometimes it would make
me look bad even though in reality it wouldn't ultimately define me. In such
cases I often choose to remain silent because I know it's best that way. If we
get rid of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy you would see a ton of
discrimination against gays in the armed forces. That would force the
government to take on the issue and to try to normalize homosexuality to people
serving in the armed forces. This would be a huge and costly project. I do not
believe the government should be responsible for doing such a thing either. It
is not government's place.
I don't think Mr Choi had to "lie" about his sexual orientatin, he just did not
have to "advertise" it. When I was in the service, prior to the don't ask don't
tell days, we had a couple of gays in our outfit (we did not refer to them as
"gays" then), and it was a detraction to the cohesiveness of our unit.