Comments about ‘Educate Utah legislators’

From the article: "the state keeps giving tax breaks to corporations in order to draw them to Utah, when the truth is an educated work force and a chance for quality education – not tax incentives – are the real magnets."

I agree that these tax breaks are self-defeating.

Does education include history? If so, check your history of funding public education. The Utah Legislature HAS made public ed a priority. The UEA will never feel they receive enough funding for education. Once they lose their ability to gripe at the Legislature they have no cause to raise funds from teachers to pay their hefty salaries. Amazing you are such a group of puppets for the union.

I wish the editor would do a little more homework before posting unsubstantiated claims like what business look for when moving to Utah. The claim that they look at class size and per-pupil spending before tax rates is ridiculous. Even if they were concerned with education levels, successful businesses are concerned with net results which tell much more than just initial investments.

Increasing educational spending will certainly profit the UEA but only buys more of the same results in the classroom. In order to make real improvements in our educational system, we need to change the classroom to administrative cost scale so we can buy more education and less bureaucracy.

I taught my daughter to read and write and do math. I charged the taxpayer nothing.

The government schools are asking parents to do a lot of the education of their children, and are asking for volunteers to come and help teach without charge. They also pay substitute teachers very little, while at the same time demanding higher pay and smaller classes for themselves.

Following the trends that they have set in motion, perhaps we can replace the remaining paid professionals with volunteers and home schools.
This will alleviate and remove the charge for education from the taxpayer, eliminating the need for property taxes, except for sanitation etc.

Yes we can! Yes we can! Yes we can!

...the number of children a family can use as a deduction to 2 or 3, thereby increasing taxes paid. Then target that money specifically to reducing class sizes.

I have four children, all of whom attended Primary, etc., and I would be glad to pay my share in this fashion if class sizes if it would reduce class sizes.

This only shows how effective the UEA has been with the support of the Deseret News, KSL, and the Salt Lake Trib in convincing the public that MORE MONEY = IMPROVED EDUCATION.

We've heard the same thing year after year since we moved here in 1976 (using the same scare tactics--class size, supplies, etc.). Yet, with all the additional funding, the replacement of old schools with new facilities, and an ever expanding bureaucracy, test scores have not improved. I'd argue kids know less upon graduation today than they did in 1976.

The Deseret News never asks tough questions of the UEA, such as what they're doing with all the additional funding the state has been providing (they already receive the biggest chunk of our tax dollars). Demanding more money from an overly taxed public during the toughest economic times since the Great Depression is brazen.

Unless the Deseret News can prove that additional spending improves education, then the claim is bogus.

editorial writers about a few facts. Utah spends less per pupil but more per capita than any other state. We make the greatest financial effort for public education. More money doesn't necessarily equal better education. Look at New York City and Washington D.C. In Utah we have learned to do the best with what we have; and we do very well.

Let's stop looking for some rich guy to tax.

Corporations hire people. Because of corporations, people can buy homes and groceries and cars. Without corporations, many people in Utah would be out of work, not paying any taxes, and living off the dole.

Taxing a corporation is just another way of taxing ourselves - if we buy that corporation's product or service.

Giving incentives to any business to locate in Utah is also false economy. Look that the Micron plant. Yes, it is finally in partial operation, but at what cost to the people of Lehi? How about the huge cabinet shop in West Jordan that now sits idle? How much did the citizens of West Jordan pay to get that company to come to Utah - for a few months.

If a business plan is viable, that business doesn't need extra incentives to open in Utah, but it certainly doesn't need to pay excessive taxes just so special interest groups get excessive salaries.

Look at the salaries paid to teachers and compare them to the salaries of those who pay those teachers. Teachers are better paid than their benefactors.

The statistics are accurate as to per pupil funding. However, it is also true that the tax money used for education is not always spent wisely. For example money spent on school construction is excessive. Alpine School District recently spent $60 million on a new high school in Saratoga Springs that holds 2000 students. If they are so short on money, why are they building at such high costs unnecessarily?
Additionally, school districts spend a lot of money on sports programs, the cost of which is not disclosed. Football stadiums, coaching personnel and athletic facilities have a very high cost, yet they benefit a handful of students.

If we are going to have a discussion about adding more money to the pot, we should have a thorough discussion about how that money is spent and review what the priorities for this money should be.

I am a classroom teacher with a masters degree and 21 years of experience.. I am paid $58,000 per year (I would be paid more in the private sector for my education and experience).I only receive a pay increase if my government leaders deem that I am worthy. Can you imagine what it is like to hope that the legislature will see fit to give you a pay raise or even give you the amount equal to what you had before. I do need volunteers in my classroom to make it possible to reach more children who are lacking in reading or math skills because many parents do not teach their children at home. Whether you want to argue that teachers are overpaid and that you can do a better job at home and that volunteers do the job of the teacher etc. There is still a fundamental need to reduce the number of students in a classroom and that takes funding to hire more teachers. Why is it that most Utahns see the need for better funding and yet we continue to see no action on the part of our political leaders.

I'm confused! What paper wrote this editorial, the Trib?

It's astounding that the DNews is finally dishing out something that the Utah legislature doesn't want to hear.

Way to go, Deseret News!

Utah, it's time to wake up and smell the Postum.

The notion that Utah's former paradox (lowest spent per child on education, but still above national average) is no longer true. Go to Google and search for Utah Foundation Paradox Lost.

Money used to hire more qualified teachers and reduce class size is in dire need.

Ummmmm . . . your union bias is showing.

People with agendas may certainly write editorials, but they should reveal biases. And you should have revealed yours, instead of acting as if you speak for some significant number of Utahns.

You don't.

Rather, you're carrying the water for the UEA and its money-grubbing leadership.

We're not stupid. We know the code. Regardless of whatever else is demanded, UEA's goal is relentless -- it's always more money. More money for educaTORS, not necessarily for educaTION. Always -- more money.

Everyone else is in belt-tightening mode, but not so, education. We can have high quality results, but that doesn't matter. UEA simply wants more money.

Sadly, UEA also infects educators with the idea they are chumps because they do a good job, but are not "recognized" for it -- meaning they aren't paid as well as doctors, lawyers, and engineers.

Sadly, that attitude is reflected in recent educator arrogance and misconduct.

Feel free to have all the agendas you like. But don't try to hide them -- it only makes you look small.

@ 8:32,

You've stated that you would be paid more in the private sector. Why not stop complaining? Why not quit your job in the public sector and get that better paying job in the private sector?

Let me just whisper a little secret in your ear, "The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence."

Saying that you're worth more in the private sector while holding on to your pension and security in the public sector makes me think that you might have a highly optimistic view of your skills and abilities. Did you know that in the private sector people can be fired for almost anything? Did you know that in the private sector, you actually have to PROVE your worth every time you have a review? Did you know that in the private sector that years on the job don't relate to pay raises?

Stop believing the lies that the UEA tells you about how poorly you're being paid and start being thankful that you have a job - any job.

$58,000 sounds pretty good in the current economic climate.

I also have been educated to Masters' level but have never earned so much. Once I taught at a private school for about $400 a month, with no benefits and no holiday pay.

Not all private schools pay so little as that, but I am sceptical that you would get more than you do now, in the private sector. Typically parochial schools pay less.

Go to the private sector and do better, if you can, by all means.

Meanwhile people often earning $20,000 a year or less are paying $1,000 a year property tax, whether or not they have a child in school. Many of them have no employment income at all just now.Teachers are not the most grateful or compassionate people I have ever met. It seems to be all about them, not the children, anyway, no matter what they claim.

I think often the real work is done at home with the family explaining the things their children didn't learn or understand at school.

Still it's OK as long as you get your pay raises, the rest of us can just suffer.

Everyone always says that Utah doesn't need to give more money to education. They claim money isn't the issue. How do we know? We've never tried to throw money (real money) at this issue!

The legislature likes to say "We have added millions of dollars to the education budget."

This is true.

However what they don't say is we have added tens of thousands of students to the rolls. The money they have added doesn't adequately cover the amount of students that we have added.

Just look at the percentage of the state budget that goes to education.

It has dropped considerably over the last 15 years.

I guess that the majority of the naysayers posting to this opinion piece failed to read the sentence where a Dan Jones poll reported that "...66 percent believe funding for Utah schools is too low."

Here is a news flash to those naysayers: The majority of Utahns are not with you on this one. Furthermore it is time to wake up and start smelling the flowers - most of that majority are not card-carrying members of the UEA.

Time to pass a head tax. Cap it at two or three kids, and no deductions/exemptions for the rest.

Time to assess some property taxes on all non-profit entities........they utilize public (GASP....socialized) services, they should pay a little as well.

THE ONLY WAY TO Educate Utah legislators is to quit re-electing them, because they have a R after their name, and we all know the people in Utah would vote for the devil if he to had a R after his name as well, and, kick them the heck out of Office. What's wrong with that?.