Deseret News | We can all make a better effort in bringing an end to racism

Reader comments
Joseph A. Cannon: We can all make a better effort in bringing an end to racism

Dave | 7:00 a.m. Sept. 27, 2009

Lets not forget 'World peace' too.

Victor | 8:56 a.m. Sept. 27, 2009

Very well put, Mr. Cannon. I agree that defining a person by race is an unChristian act and not worthy behavior from anyone, let alone from a member of the LDS church.

Members of the LDS church, or any church work towards an ideal - love of God, love of neighbor, truth, purity, and so forth are all ideals. We aren't perfect. We never have been perfect. All we can do is keep trying to be better.

RE: Joseph A. Cannon | 9:57 a.m. Sept. 27, 2009

Perhaps in a perfect world we can all make a better effort in bringing an end to racism Joe Cannon, and I feel Joseph A. Cannon knows, we don't live in that perfect world. Does he even know, with his feels good sounds good touchy feeling in need of a tissue story that racism will always be here to stay, because that's human nature, and not even Joseph A. Cannon can change that. As soon as a child is born, the Parent or/and Parent's starts planting the racism seed into their brain. In return, they grow up and do the same with their kid's. It's a never ending cycle. It keeps going around like a broken 33 1/3 record. You'll never see in your life time, all standing in a line, holding hands, and, singing "we are the world", so live with it, racism is here to stay. That's my view.

Comments continue below

David in California | 11:32 a.m. Sept. 27, 2009

I believe that the comment @ 9:57 is over simplified and doesn't promote a positive attitude. As a school teacher in CA, where I have worked in recent years, I have noticed a "Change" in attitude concerning racial attitudes. High School students of today do still refer to others by "color and or race" but it's more of an "identifier" or decription rather than the creating a "them and us" situation. I'm not saying all all is perfect, but it's A LOT different than just a few decades ago. It is more inclusive now.

Being that the LDS population, at least here in the USA, is basically a sub-culture of American thought and behavior, Racism is Fading among the LDS youth of today too.

It's now OK to be Black, White, Asian, Mexican, etc.

There are still the gang problems for sure, but the groupings there are not along "racial lines" very much. The gang groupings are along different criteria for the most part.

Martin Luther King Jr.'s "DREAM" has happened to a significant degree.

There's still work to be done, however, especially in areas where "diversity" isn't as prevalent.

True | 11:35 a.m. Sept. 27, 2009

The most blatant racism is "affirmative action".

Mike Richards | 11:59 a.m. Sept. 27, 2009

@ 9:27,

There is a point in every person's life when he has to take responsibility for his own thoughts and his own feelings. He can blame his parents as the reason that he "never turned out properly", or he can admit that he was just too self-centered to make the effort to rise above it all.

If you want to be racist, you'll end up a bitter, disappointed person. At some point in your life, you will be thought of as you thought of others. You will be treated as you treated others. You will be judged as you judged others. That is perfect justice.

It's all up to you.

Anonymous | 12:10 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

Racism is kept alive by those who continue to bring it up over and over and over again. Most races, for what ever reason, seem to feel more comfortable with their own race and therefore seem to perpetuate the attitudes that keep racism alive. But those who step out of those tightly knit groups seem to have no problem making friends with any and all races which breaks down the barriers that keep it alive.

There will always be a minority of those who simply believe they are superior, but a superiority complex (which is the foundation of racism) can be influenced by a multitude of other reasons like religion, economic background, education, etc..

@True | 11:35 a.m. | 12:10 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

@True | 11:35 a.m. says,

"The most blatant racism is "affirmative action"."

Please elaborate.

You see, that statement is easy to make if you are benefitting, in general, from your skin color, i.e. Caucasion. I suspect you are white.

At least affirmative action is acknowledging there is a problem and is a remedy, perhaps flawed, but a "targeted" remedy all the same.

How would you propose "leveling the playing field?" Do you even see the playing field as uneven?

But hey, I'll grant you the issue, and its solution, are difficult.

False Assumptions | 1:10 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

I believe it is a false assumption:

1. To believe, as Mr Canon seems to, that before the Kimball revelation latter-day saints were racists.

2. To believe, as Mr Canon seems to, that all racism has to do with superior attitudes of people based on being "white" rather than black. He does not acknowledge any racism of blacks against whites.

I have never heard (yes really!) any white make any racist statement about blacks in forty years, although I have heard complaints about "affirmative action" creating an unfair situation for whites.

I have sometimes heard the derogatory term "Whitey" and "Honky", terms which I beieve I am meant to find amusing; I don't! they are offensive terms.

I am aware of the perpetuation of racist and white-supremacist organisiations, though my own circle of association doesn't include or make me aware of any of these in my daily life. I am also aware of anti-white groups among some of the black population.

Equality of Man | 1:43 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

Seen in creation: "From one man he made every nation(ethnos)* of men,that they should inhabit the whole earth;and he determined the times set for them,and the exact places where they should live."(Acts 17:26 NIV)
Seen in Salvation: For God so love the WORLD(Kosmos)
that He gave his one and only Son..."(John 3:16 NIV)
*Greek root for ethnicity

njp | 3:30 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

Thanks Mike. You are so right. Each of us will stand individually in front of that God who created us all and be judged by OUR thoughts, actions, and deeds. And there will come a day in which all of us will be united......a day many yearn for even now.

Racism is alive and well | 5:03 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

As one writer pointed out, racism is declining among some youth. As another writer pointed out, racism is alive and well as children model what they are taught at home. Not all critics of Obama are racist, but most certainly some are motivated by racism. I myself, as a caucasian, have experienced racism while living in Los Angeles. But I have the "luxury" of being the race which holds most of the power in the U.S., so complain I won't. Others struggle against racism every day of their lives.

The Mormon dilemma | 5:40 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

I think Mr. Cannon provided a thoughtful column. Unfortunately, he doesn't, and probably can't (or risk his social standing), go deeper into what the real problem actually is.

The LDS Church will always have problems with race, because racism is inextricably laced within its doctrine. I mean goodness, they believe dark skin is a result of being “cursed.” How else can one interpret that?

The following statements, by various Church leaders, provide further evidence:

“the Devil is gray haired, wrinkled and black.”

“Cain slew his brother . . . and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. . . .”

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so…”

“Not only was Cain called upon to suffer [for killing Abel], but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race.”

And now we have a Black President… Are the actions, comments, fears from the Mormon community really that surprising?

@False Assumptions | 6:00 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

You said,

"I have never heard (yes really!) any white make any racist statement about blacks in forty years, although I have heard complaints about "affirmative action" creating an unfair situation for whites."

And it's rather hard to unbelieve. I would love for it to be true though.

As for your first point, well does "white and delightsome" mean anything to you? How about Brigham Young saying “the Devil is gray haired, wrinkled and black.” Curse of Cain? None of that is racist? If people buy into a group with such beliefs, what are they exactly... ignorant, gullible...racist?

As for your second point, it explains why you never hear racist comments towards Blacks - you are ethnocentric.

Dubious | 7:12 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

I seriously doubt that racism is human nature. After all, a child must be taught to hate. And let's all remember the fine counsel we got from President Hinkley just a few years ago during the Priesthood Session of one General Conference. He condemned racism handily.

How Funny | 7:13 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

That is rich, given the LDS church's historic embedded racist doctrine.

racism is ugly | 7:34 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

I agree with the Mormon dilemma at 5:40 PM. Until the LDS leadership repudiates past leaders' racist doctrines--ie., blacks are of the seed of cain, blacks were less valiant in the preexistence--the church will always be saddled with racist members.

PS: In addition to describing the color of the devil, Brigham Young also taught that slavery was ordained of God and that blacks were destined to always be the servants of whites.

Anonymous | 7:46 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

Until a little old white man from Utah is not always the prophet then I think the church is racist. But on the other hand if the Prophet were a Mexican with no Utah ties then the 'white' mormons would leave in droves. This alone tells me the church has some real race issues.

Mike Richards | 8:24 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

Isn't it interesting that those who have no membership in a church can dictate to that church what its doctrines should be and what its history should be.

They choose to ignore that that church was driven from the United States. They choose to ignore that one of those States issued an extermination order against anyone who was a member of that church.

Those religious bigots would dredge up a few comments made by someone who died in 1877 without bothering to quote other people from that era. In fact, they are so blind to the racism of leaders in Government, people like Senator Byrd, that they only try to smear religious leaders who are long gone.

Each of us will be held accountable for how WE lived our lives, not for how someone else lived. We will answer to God for what WE did, not for what others did. I will not be judged for the views or actions of Brigham Young, but I will be judged for the actions of Mike Richards.

Get over your religious bigotry and face live squarely. Be accountable for who YOU are and what YOU do.

Anonymous | 9:41 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

The mormon church racist? Where is your proof people? You idiots have no idea what you are talking about! If you have issue take it up with Heavenly Father!

Racist? | 10:04 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

Let's see, didn't former President Jimmy Carter say that those who are against Obama's policies are racists? To those who think that the LDS Church is racist I ask, isn't Jimmy Carter a blatant racist given his remarks? If it is true that those who are against Obama because of his policies then one has to think that those who are for his policies are racist, too because of their support only because of his color. Yep, it seems as if we are all racists at this time. Now what do we do?

@Racist | 11:45 p.m. Sept. 27, 2009

Pres. Jimmy Carter didn't say EVERYBODY who is against Obama's policies are racist. What Carter said:

"When a radical fringe element of demonstrators and others begin to attack the president of the United States as an animal or as a reincarnation of Adolf Hitler or when they wave signs in the air that said we should have buried Obama with Kennedy..."I think people who are guilty of that kind of personal attack against Obama have been influenced to a major degree by a belief that he should not be president because he happens to be African American."

Jimmy is right. The right-wing fringe does include some racists. The rest are just ignorant.

forgotten history | 8:15 a.m. Sept. 28, 2009

People have forgotten that it was only 30 years
(that's right - only 30 years) since LDS authorities deemed black men in general unworthy for the priesthood.
It took legal action to change that terrible racist policy.

@Anonymous | 9:41 | 8:25 a.m. Sept. 28, 2009

Why don't you exlain then the Church's take on why people have dark skin? What is the "curse of Cain?" What happened to the Lamanites' skin? What is "white and delightsome?" Then, after you enlighten me, describe how all of it is NOT racist. Perhaps, in your world, it is o.k. for some to be viewed as inferior and to be treated accordingly. Then I could see why none of this makes sense to you.

re:The Mormon dilemma | 10:58 a.m. Sept. 28, 2009

You are very correct and put the Mormon delimma in an accurate perspective. Today the dominant race in the Church is not Anglo-Saxon white, but rather Latino. Yet our leadership is so dominated by white men that any other group is voiceless. This may well be inspired. But, if it is, then it is another delimma in our faith. If other races/colors/cultures are equal to our white/Anglo-Saxon race/color/culture, then why isn't the Church leadership made up of a representative mix?

I'm an adult convert from the Deep South. Racism is typically a very subtle, almost undetectable trait. In today's world it is getting more a more untectable. But it is there. We dominant whites are especially to blame. We point the finger in all directions. Yet, our history with many races/colors has been one of denying real equality to them all. We Mormons are just as culpable as the rest of white America.

I challenge all of us to learn about other cultures/races, become personnaly associated with people of color and invite our children to consider other races in their pursuit of marriage partners.

Racism | 11:04 a.m. Sept. 28, 2009

I just returned from Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Not a place that would seem from the outside to have a racism problem. People have come from all over the world to take jobs in that tourist haven. I saw a Russian grocery and heard accents that surprised me. Ukranians, Russians, the Polish, the Turks and a large Latino population all hold the jobs in Jackson. The town sign claims there are less than 9,000 residents, but I doubt that it takes into account the immigrant population. Racial tensions are high. Overcrowded, expensive housing awaits and they come with a "gold rush" mentality expecting to take home US dollars. There is no middle class which exacerbates the problem. Racism among the immigrants themselves, lack of English speaking skills reinforces stereotypes. I saw fighting, insults and a disregard for human rights. Jackson has become a racist village with rich hating poor, countries pited against one another and an illegal immigrant melting pot. I think Utahns are fairly open minded about different cultures but racism is alive and well in the US. Equality is a myth.

Long way to go | 11:08 a.m. Sept. 28, 2009

"It is very clear to me, however, not just in talking with my friend, but based on experience and observation, that many of us Saints have a long way to go to being genuinely sensitive to and understanding of the minorities among us."

Just last week, Joe Cannon was a keynote speaker at an anti-gay rally in Provo. A long way to go indeed.

to: re:The Mormon dilemma | 11:47 a.m. Sept. 28, 2009

you speak of the church as if it is a country club. who are we to judge who God calls to lead his church?

and to: long way to go
what is exactly is your statement supposed to mean? the gaymovements secret desires for the church to recognize homosexual marriage? you dusgust me. when are you people going to understand that the church has nothing against homosexuals. the church preaches that homosexuality is a sin and invites those who practice in these sins to repent and come unto christ. jesus loved the sinner, but he wou;ld never encourage someone to sin. by telling someone that homosexuality is not a sin is the same as encouraging that person to sin. of course, it is not our place to judge, but if someone is open about and goes around sayingthey are practicing homosexuals, than we are wll within our duties to encourage that person to repent. what would jesus do? he would definitly help them and love them and treat them with the utmost kindenss, but he would never endorse the sin and allow homosexual marriage just to make them feel better about themselves and continue to live in sin.

Rob Sivulka | 11:54 a.m. Sept. 28, 2009

If you think that God ever cursed people with dark skin, or if you think that blacks got their skin from not fighting as valiantly with Jesus in the great war in heaven, then you are a racist. Unfortunately, most LDS hold these beliefs.

Anonymous | 12:17 p.m. Sept. 28, 2009

I lived and worked in Seattle.
A VERY liberal community.

In my office, White/Anlgo/males were the minority.

It was common to hear;
Hindi, Japanese, Chinese, Italian, French, and Russian as first languages and English as the second.

We all get along just fine.

The key is - TOLERENCE and Diversity.
Live-and-let-live liberalism.

Something Utahns lack for the most-part.

@@mike 10:07 am | 12:58 p.m. Sept. 28, 2009

How nice of you to to acknowledge the "it was unfortunate" what was done to the early members of the LDS church, then you add the obligatory "but", that somehow justifies all that was done.
Though you leave off 99% of what was done to them.
Then you complain that they voted in blocks?
Wow, yeah, let's burn and kill an entire community for that.
Then you procede to advise Mike to walk the walk and think for yourself, while you continue to judge, based on what you've read and never seen, an entire religion and justify the bigotry it has endured from people like you.
So, since you have all the answers, please explain why God created all of the different races and how did they come about.
It's easy to criticize when you don't have any of your own ideas to put out on the table.
And please include the name of your religion so we can play on a level playing field.
No religion? Then your opinion has no basis in this discussion.
You're just another fence sitter.

to: rob sivulka | 3:03 p.m. Sept. 28, 2009

it is not racism, it's the truth. however, it never should have been used for discrimination. they have paid whatever it is they had to pay and that is none of my business,it's between them and God. to try to deny the truth just because the lie sounds better doesn't change the fact that it's a lieshould we now deny that there were people against the constitution and that they involved in the democratic party? no, it is the truth. of course, no one is saying that democrats are out to destroy the constitution, but it doesn't change the fact that they once opposed it. the same applies here. no one is saying blacks are any less then whites without equal opportunities, we're just saying one man did something evil and his decendants had to pay the price. whether or not god made those who stood on the sidelines in the great battle be born with this course is not for me to say. but if he did, then i am sure he had his reasons. would it be just to make someone who fought hard for god be born cursed?

Sure didn't take long... | 3:23 p.m. Sept. 28, 2009

This conversation sorta started out on a constructive note, but it didn't take long for the anti-LDS factions out there to take the discussion South and mire in mud-slinging and try to prevent anyone from growing, learning and progressing from a normal converstaion on this topic without interjection the almost obligatory anti-lds rhetoric.

Some people will NEVER get over their hatred or allow any progress to be made it seems.

white and delightsome | 4:22 p.m. Sept. 28, 2009

"Satan is indeed loose in the world. And he is racism."
Nobel Laureate and Holocaust survivor, Elie Wiesel.

Earl 1943 | 10:29 p.m. Sept. 28, 2009

Racism is not limited to any one race. There was a large Latino population in California where I grew up. They divided into two groups. One were those who were Americans first (I knew they were Latino only because of their names). The other group were minority Latino or Mexican first. They spoke only Spanish among themselves and, except in the class-room, remained apart from the rest of us.
When I lived in Japan, I saw that Koreans, Ainu, and Kokumin (dark-skinned Japanese) were openly discriminated against.
When I lived near Fort Lewis in western Washington, I saw and worked with people of many different races who were in the Army and who worked together largely without regard to race. I worked with their children in school and saw no incidents of racial animosity.
Here in Utah I have seen some overt racism, but a lot of "soft" racism, likely growing out of stereotypes rather than animus.
We need to be introspective, but we also need people not to take offense easily. Please cut imperfect humans some slack.

John Pack Lambert, SH MI | 10:13 a.m. Sept. 29, 2009

This is a needed piece. I know enough couples where one is of Euro-American origin and the other is African-American to say we are making progress.
This is the type of piece that calls for introspection. Unfortunantly, the easiest comments are those that try to put the responsibility on others shoulders.
Another comment, it is not just African-Americans who suffer from racial profiling. I have known Native Americans who were specifically targeted for trailing at even the BYU bookstore on the grounds they were likely robbers. That incident was probably at least 10 years ago, and hopefully such things no longer happen, but it is the type of treatment that I as soeone who appears to be Euro-American (even though I do have some Native Amerian ancestry) have never experienced.

John Pack Lambert, SH MI | 1:09 p.m. Sept. 29, 2009

I was sitting here wondering why someone else would have the same name as me. I did a google search and found there are some with a similar, though not exactly identical, name to my own, but only a few of them actually live in or around Michigan. Then I began wondering if I really am who I think I am, or if I might be one of these other people, but I could have lost my memory somehow. So I decided to post another comment because if I can post enough comments with my own, unique style of rambling, then I can convince myself not only that I am real and not someone else, but I can convince myself that I am right about everything I read under the name John Pack Lambert.

John Pack Lambert | 2:25 p.m. Sept. 29, 2009

To the 1:10 commentator,
Well, the liar struck again, so I have given up on making the location markers. The 1:09 commentator does not possess the truth.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you have not heard racist comments, but maybe that is because you have avoided places where Euro-Americans actually have to interact with people of different races.
I was once in a Sunday School class on my mission where THE TEACHER made a racist comment. I served my mission in 2000-2002 and can identify direct comments from three fellow missionaries that were racist, including one who directly denounced inter-racial marriage. I met a member on my mission who considered inter-racial dating (not marriage, just dating) to be one of the gravest sins (incidentally, Elder Kimball said "inter-racial marriage is no sin" in a talk he gave at BYU in about 1957, but that is beyound the point).
I know of someone who once said outload in a Detroit restraunt "I feel unsafe with all these black people around". That person was a member of the Church. If that is not racism, what is?

John Pack Lambert | 2:57 p.m. Sept. 29, 2009

To the 7:34 commentator,
The Church has denounced the teachings you mention. Go read Elder Holland's interview with Helen Whitney and then tell me otherwise.
On the other hand, since none of Brigham Young's statements that you quote have ever been accepted as revealed doctrine, I do not see why the Church should repudiate them.
The fact of the matter is that attitudes towards other races on the part of members of the Church are much more heavily shaped by what they see on TV than these obscure quotes you bring up.
The only quotes that really are in need of discarding are ones from Elder McConkie, which he directly said should be discarded.
It might be well to more widely publicize Elder McConkie's talk on how the added light of Official Declaration 2 overrides anything he or Brigham Young said on the matter.
However, I think that Brother Cannon is right. The racism in Utah does not stem mainly from these obscure quotes, but from insensitivity and lack of interaction with those of other races.
Your bringing up these ocscure quotes and speaking with such hate towards the leaders of the Church does no good.

John Pack Lambert | 3:00 p.m. Sept. 29, 2009

To the 8:15 commentator,
30 years ago many African-Americans held the priesthood in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Even 31 years ago this was true. We are over 31 years from when Official Declaration 2 was issued. This may be small quibbling, but it is more than 30 years.

John Pack Lambert | 3:03 p.m. Sept. 29, 2009

More to the 8:15 commentator,
Your claim that it took legal action to change the policy on blacks holding the priesthood is a TOTAL AND UTTER LIE.
Pressure on the Church over the issue of blacks and the Piresthood was much higher in 1968 than in 1978. The legal action claim is totally false and has no basis in fact.
You should read Edward L. Kimball's book "lengthen you stride" about the presidency of his father and then you will see that this was a revelation from God, not the response to the actions of men.

John Pack Lambert | 3:09 p.m. Sept. 29, 2009

To the 11:54 commentator,
Whether or not most Latter-day Saints hold the beliefs you speak of is hard to say. However, I doubt it is true. Those who do have not read the scriptures critically enough, and have ignored the statements of many Church leaders that there were no neutral people in the war in Heaven.
I would suggest that anyone thinks the Church teaches racist ideas read the writing of Marvin Perkins. When you understand the true meaning of white and black when they are used in the scriptures you will cast off such racist notions.
Unfortunantly, those who want to claim the Church is at heart racism have the least desire of actually promoting understanding among people. What they really seek is to so poison the minds of African-Americans against the Church that they never openly bring up the issue of racism because it is so deeply assumed that no matter how much we show otherwise we will still be suspected of hate.
How many black men have to marry white women in the temples of God before people stop accusing the Church of being racist?

John Pack Lambert | 3:13 p.m. Sept. 29, 2009

To continue my thought on the issue, how many African descended men married to women of European descent do we have to have as heads of the religion departments at Church Universities before people stop calling the Church racist?

Anonymous | 3:24 p.m. Sept. 29, 2009

"Today the dominant race in the Church is not Anglo-Saxon white, but rather Latino. Yet our leadership is so dominated by white men that any other group is voiceless."

...affirmative action???

Anon | 7:50 a.m. Oct. 14, 2009

I find it disturbing that racism is nearly always represented as being the sin of Whites. My mother had a friend who was Black (in the 1960's) and was subject to the racism of that woman's Black friends...my mother was never accepted by them. When I got married, I lived in an area where there was a large Black population close by. At first, I would sometimes go to stores in that area. I stopped because of the racism I experienced (deliberate physical shoving, being refused service...too long a list to fully elaborate here). Racism is a label attached to White Christians, but I know of Christian children in predominantly Jewish neighborhoods who have been rejected as playmates because they weren't Jewish. As long as racism is defined as being a White Christian problem, racism will continue. Truth and honesty will have to precede the end of racism.

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