Comments about ‘Utah Symphony gets new director’

Thierry Fischer is a superb all-round choice for music director of the Utah Symphony and Opera. His dynamism and musicality are commendable. Despite the rather conservative nature (in the choice of repertoire they appear to favor) of the average Utah symphony audience, I believe Fischer's idea of extremes in programming can work to build an audience--the choices need to be paired judiciously, however.

I'd love to hear the orchestra perform pieces by the Swiss composers Frank Martin, Arthur Honegger, and Othmar Schoeck (Fischer has recorded works of all three), but they have to be paired with something the casual symphony audience will recognize and attend.

An example may help frame the difficulty. When the symphony performed Olivier Messiaen's Des canyons aux etoiles (inspired by Bryce Canyon in Utah) some years back under Keith Lockhart, the audience was extremely small. I believe no amount of marketing and promotion could have vastly increased the attendance--it all came down to performing a piece that few symphony subscribers probably had ever heard of along with a composer whose name is not immediately recognizable by the casual concertgoer.

Fischer faces a stiff challenge to maintain and boost attendance.

Fischer, being a professional musician and have heard the best in the world, the biggest problem that hurts my ears when listening to the Utah Symphony is the very poor intonation.

The Utah Symphony have, to my ears, an intonation problems that makes one so uncomfortable when listening to it. Some may think that's not so, but it's very difficult to ignore it when you have perfect pitch, which aggravates it even more.

The Utah Symphony strings feels like sandpaper to my ears. The Boston Symphony strings, like velvet.

So, please, Mr. Fischer, take care of the intonation problems that are deeply inherent in the technique of the orchestra. The Cleveland, is one of many in the US of clean intonation.

This comment may offend some people, and especially the orchestra and its management. It's for that reason that it's never progressed further than a regional orchestra, never attracting high calibered name of international conductors.

Barenboim, Muti, Maazel, Levine, Haitink, Rattle, Mehta, etc, and many others in the past, such as Bernstein, Karajan, etc, they would never come because they don't appreciate the lack of quality of the Utah Symphony.

What the Heck are you talking about. Go Cougs.

It's not the Symphony's intonation that kept Karajan from leading it. It's the lack of $$$. Karajan was notoriously mercenary. Why should a world-class conductor come to SLC and get paid a tenth of what he can make in Chicago or Berlin? As for the Orchestra's intonation, I'm not in your league as a listener so I have to take your word for it, but they sound wonderful to me.

I attended a concert in Symphony Hall last week, my first in more than a year. I was very disappointed at the lack of professional attitude among the first violinists. Several of them were gazing about the auditorium during their rests or watching the circus performance so intently that they missed their cue. One violinist in particular, looked and acted like a hair brain, bad hair, bad manners, poor attention; very unprofessional. I thought that it was very sad that a musician who plays well enough to be hired by a symphony orchestra has the manners of a rough teenager.

Too bad. It certainly detracted from the performance.

Your comment is incredibly true. I am a classical music aficionado who has traveled around Europe and listened to some of the greatest orchestras. Utah Symphony's quality is amateur. I do hope this is worked on severely.

Even though at first glance, money is an attracting factor for a world class musician, but professional conductors are drawn to a world class orchestra much like flies are attracted to food scraps.

A lot of money was offered to Muti to lead the New York Phil, but he refused, for whatever reasons he may have had. To refuse the post for the NY Phil is ludicrous, but he had his reasons.

Build a world class orchestra and the world class conductors will come.

The Utah Symphony is considered a great orchestra by many in the same way that McDonalds is considered as a great burger by many. For many, they don't know there is a much better burger.

Hence, for many, they don't know there is a much better orchestra.

Build it, and they will come.

" Your comment is incredibly true. I am a classical music aficionado who has traveled around Europe and listened to some of the greatest orchestras. Utah Symphony's quality is amateur. I do hope this is worked on severely."

Yes, it's fine ears like yours that really knows what we're talking about when it comes to fine orchestras.

The thing is nobody will know unless they've experienced it, and you certainly have tasted the best of the best.

However, your experienced will be mocked by those who have no idea. It's very typical attitude here in Utah, who thinks the world revolves around it, and takes offense at everything that they don't agree with.

Hey, I'm a classical music aficionado too, and this discussion of the Utah Symphony's lack of intonation is rather odd. Any orchestra will have at least some intonation problems if you listen to it enough live or on record, or via unedited, prerecorded live radio concerts.

Yes, a world class flutist like Thierry Fischer can and will improve the sound of the orchestra, just as Joseph Silverstein did when he was music director (previously he was the concertmaster of the Boston Symphony for 22 years). There is an argument that Keith Lockhart kept the orchestra's technical competency stagnant, and I understand that one.

Now I'm not saying that the Utah Symphony is the best orchestra in the world or even the Western US. The rating game for orchestras is fun but pointless in the end. Some critics argue that technically the Berlin Philharmonic is vastly overrated.

Even Karajan (did he even have perfect pitch?) was never really known for the technical polish of his live performances, but the beauty of sound he elicited. If most of the audience enjoys the performance, despite their lack of perfect pitch or travels around Europe, that's what's important.

"RE Intonation | 8:37 a.m. Sept. 25, 2009
What the Heck are you talking about. Go Cougs."

That's alright, this is how musicians talk, don't take offense ok?...........LOL!!

"Even Karajan (did he even have perfect pitch?) was never really known for the technical polish of his live performances, but the beauty of sound he elicited."

Ahemmm, actually, he is extremely well known for his technical polish, both in recording AND LIVE performances. He is famous for his dictatorial perfection that caused his riff with the orchestra towards the end of his life, and ended with bitterness with both orchestra and conductor.

Of course, Karajan was of the old school and such behavior is no longer tolerated in our modern era.

Still, to say that Karajan was not polished in performance, really don't know who he is that much. His reputation of this well established, and just needs a little more reading on your part.

Also, your commentary that every orchestra has at least some intonation problems, would also be true that every concert violinist would at least have played wrongs notes.

I heard Yo Yo Ma performed the Dvorak cello concerto with the NY Phil, and made a terrible wrong note during a quite moment that stuck out badly.

That's not the norm though.

The Utah Symphony's bad ensemble is the norm.

The Utah Symphony usually has good ensemble and intonation to my ears. As for those who think the symphony is amateurish. Wow. Where to start? I have never heard Karajan live in person, and I would love to know if those who want to tear down the Utah Symphony have. Did you hear him live in person once, or in the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s? This would make a difference.

I believe only someone who has attended dozens of performances of any orchestra live can truly judge the overall quality of their sound, intonation, ensemble, and technical polish. Otherwise they are judging only based on recordings, and that is fair enough for what it is, but it is an incomplete picture because ensemble problems usually are corrected by retakes in recordings. Karajan's studio recordings were not necessarily taken from single, uninterrupted takes.

There is no overall critical consensus that Muti, Maazel, Rattle, Levine, Barenboim, Mehta, and Haitink are great conductors, despite their storied and lengthy histories. Many think Rattle is way overrated and fiddles with interpretations, Maazel too interested in technical perfection to generate any character, Haitink dull, Levine too fastidious, Barenboim too inconsistent, and on and on.

I love the Utah Symphony. I think it usually gives vivid, vital performances of the symphonic repertoire under most conductors. I expect it will become a premiere ensemble under Thierry Fischer as music director.

A lot of the criticism of the Utah Symphony here appears to be somewhat snobbish and elitist. I guess only someone who has never played in an orchestra or band can think that even the greatest orchestras never have issues with ensemble and intonation in rehearsal or live.

Ralph Matson, the Utah Symphony's concertmaster for over 20 years, was trained by Joseph Silverstein, who was the concertmaster of the Boston Symphony for many decades. Matson was also a member of the Cleveland Orchestra, so I gather he has some idea of their sound, intonation, and ensemble.

Gerald Elias, the Utah Symphony's associate concertmaster, was with the Boston Symphony for 13 years.

These key players help to determine an orchestra's sound, not just the music director. Sure, it does not automatically follow that they alone can make the Utah Symphony a premiere ensemble.

I guess those who think the Utah Symphony's ensemble and intonation are bad can play better than Matson.

I enjoy going to Utah Symphony performances and hearing the beautiful sounds the symphony makes.

Thierry Fischer is a world-class musician and will help bring the symphony to far greater overall prominence again.

The notion that the orchestras of New York, Boston, Cleveland, Chicago, and Philadelphia give more polished, refined performances is more myth than reality today. In any case, they by no means give deeper, more characterful performances than even regional orchestras. If most of the audience enjoys the performance, that is crucial--regardless of the orchestra's reputation.

The discussion of Karajan is an interesting aside, but is enlightening about conductors in general. Even if some of our writers witnessed Karajan's conducting live many times, arguments about him are bound to be controversial. He was a controversial figure.

I think on balance that Mr. Bax is correct, if you read what he said carefully and consult multiple sources.

Richard Osborne's 1998 book on Karajan argues that Karajan aggressively got control over players, but Henri-Georges Clouzot's 1965 film (even if somewhat prefabricated) of Karajan's rehearsal style reveals something underemphasized--a gifted communicator, flexibility, casual charisma and even some warmth-not unremitting dictatorship.

The Utah Symphony is a great asset to Salt Lake City and all of Utah. Its performances are usually wonderful. Thierry Fischer's selection, in my opinion, will greatly enhance the Utah Symphony's excellent reputation.

I also agree with Mr. Bax about Karajan. If I understand Mr. Bax correctly, he is arguing that Karajan was never really overly interested in drilled perfection and note-perfect performances (like some say Fritz Reiner, George Szell and Toscanini were).

I believe Mr. Bax is arguing that Karajan was not really renowned purely for the technical polish he elicited, but rather the ends that sufficient technical polish served. Those ends included the architecture, sense of line, phrasing, and articulation of symphonic and operatic music. Did Mr. Bax actually say that Karajan was not polished in performance? No.

Having attended two performances of the Utah Symphony conducted by Thierry Fischer, I believe he can help attain a beauty of sound from the Utah Symphony as comparable in its own way to Karajan's sound.

I wonder if those who say the Utah Symphony's ensemble is consistently bad attend any performances. Maybe they just fly to New York, and hear note-perfect performances.

The Utah symphony is a great orchestra, and Maurice Abravanel was a great conductor. Together with the musicians, he helped save, build and dramatically improve the Utah Symphony, and placed it on the national and world stage. Thierry Fischer as the new music director has similar potential in today's media and internet driven age.

Compared to Maurice Abravanel, none of the music directors following Abravanel, whether Varujan Kojian, Joseph Silverstein, Keith Lockhart, or Thierry Fischer, are in the same league as orchestra builders. Conductors just don't stay with orchestras for decades anymore.

But times have changed.

Kojian was an outstanding violinist. At one time he was an assistant concertmaster at the Los Angeles Philharmonic under Zubin Mehta.

Silverstein is a world class string player (the concertmaster of the Boston Symphony for decades), and he undoubtedly improved the overall sound, intonation, and ensemble of the Utah Symphony.

Keith Lockhart is a versatile musician, but at times this appears to bring some lack of focus to his interpretations and the ensemble sound he gets.

Mr. Fischer is a world-class conductor and flutist(he played under Nikolaus Harnoncourt and Claudio Abbado). The Utah Symphony has chosen wisely.

I've seen caviar in grocery stores that looked delicious, and when it comes to price, it's relatively cheap, maybe around $20 an ounce.

However, I am wondering as to how that compares to caviars that are sold at $1,200 an ounce that gets served at Hollywood parties at Oscar night.

To be honest, I have no idea, because I was never invited to any of the parties.

But it would be sour grapes for me to say that those caviars served at Oscar parties are just as good as the ones found on your grocery shelves.

So, the point of comments about Karajan, Muti, Mehta, Maazel, etc, is only to make a point not about interpretation, but about desire in conducting the orchestra, because world class attracts world class, no exceptions, much in the same way that a world class violinist wouldn't perform a violin concerto on a violin bought at Summerhays, nor a great concert pianist perform a Rachmaninov 3rd piano concerto on grandma's "upright" grand.

The refusal to use these instruments reveals a great deal about it's desirability and the reasons.

Same goes for the Utah Symphony.

Thierry Fischer is an outstanding conductor and excellent choice for music director of the Utah Symphony.

Those who persist in snobbishly dismissing the Utah Symphony (and what's more elitist than allusions to caviar) should support their arguments with consistently relevant evidence from the world of orchestral performance and history, not allusions and trite metaphors passing as in-depth knowlege and coherent arguments.

Maurice Abravanel was a great conductor. He conducted the Metropolitan Opera on several occasions before he came to Utah. But that's beside the point. Even Karajan conducted in Aachen for quite some time before he ever ended up permanently in Berlin and Vienna.

The big name conductors are attracted to the big name orchestras because these orchestras have a storied tradition of performances, be they good or bad.

But on any given night, the Utah Symphony, the Oregon Symphony, the Detroit Symphony, and the Cincinnati Symphony, just to name a few, can perform with as much passion, polish, and character as any orchestra in the nation or world, and that includes the Staatskapelle Dresden and the Vienna Philharmonic.

Some think halibut tastes better than any caviar, and chefs like Abravanel, Silverstein and Fischer matter.

It's really interesting for some to note that, just because a conductor is a great performer suddenly is also a great conductor.

This was also assumed when composers were found out to be bad conductors, even of their own music.

Yes, certainly there are conductors emerged out of the ranks of the orchestra, or soloist, but even the concert master, principal players does not make one a fine conductor, and Silverstein proved that in spades.

Domingo, Perlman, Zukerman, Rostropovich, was only just good conductors, but as they can perform in the world stage as great soloists, they'll never be considered as great conductors. If they were, they would've been given a chief conductor's post in a major orchestra.

Lockhart only tenured in low a quality orchestra such as the Utah Sym, whereas Dudamel, a much younger and less tenured conductor, yet now have conducted the NY Phil, Berlin Phil, Vienna Phil, and Chicago Sym and many other major orchestra, which Lockhart had never done to any of these just mentioned. Now he is chief of LA Phil.

It's hard to see that quality orchestras brings quality conductors, and vice-versa.

The evidence is simple.

NO major conductor comes to conduct the Utah Sym.

NONE!!!

ZERO!!!!

It's hard to come to terms of owning up to how poor of an orchestra the Utah Sym is, this I know, especially when you're a Utahn.

But, please show some evidence that the Utah Sym is ever in the vocabulary of any orchestral conductor of repute.

If you think Abravanel is one of them, then the debate stops right here, as it's pointless to discuss with someone who hasn't really tasted the best of the best.

Look, it's obvious that you think the Utah Sym is world class, and I'll let you believe in that as much as you like.

I guess all the rest of the world class conductors are wrong, and missing out, big time.