Reader comments
Bob Bernick Jr.: New shortfall means major pain for lawmakers
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SRD | 8:15 a.m. Sept. 18, 2009
I know this will not be considered, but perhaps the legislature should eliminate
the corporate welfare that is currently on the books. I will guarantee that
none of these sales tax exemptions will be discussed by the legislature.
I suggest that they eliminate the following exemptions:
Sale of food and beverages sold to an airline for in flight consumption
Repairs and repair parts on aircraft used by common carriers
The sale of vehicles used by an authorized carrier in interstate commerce
Sales of property, materials or services used to construct a pollution control facility
New and replacement equipment used in a manufacturing facility in Utah
The sale of newspapers
The sales to farmers of certain equipment and supplies used in a farming operation
Equipment used in a steel mill
The sale of electricity to a ski resort used to operate ski lifts or tramways
The sales of certain equipment and repair parts to ski resorts
The sales of fuels for “Industrial Use”
Exemptions for movie and television production companies
Equipment used by a renewable energy company
Exemptions for equipment, parts and services purchased by telecommunication companies
Purchases by shale oil technology companies
I suggest that they eliminate the following exemptions:
Sale of food and beverages sold to an airline for in flight consumption
Repairs and repair parts on aircraft used by common carriers
The sale of vehicles used by an authorized carrier in interstate commerce
Sales of property, materials or services used to construct a pollution control facility
New and replacement equipment used in a manufacturing facility in Utah
The sale of newspapers
The sales to farmers of certain equipment and supplies used in a farming operation
Equipment used in a steel mill
The sale of electricity to a ski resort used to operate ski lifts or tramways
The sales of certain equipment and repair parts to ski resorts
The sales of fuels for “Industrial Use”
Exemptions for movie and television production companies
Equipment used by a renewable energy company
Exemptions for equipment, parts and services purchased by telecommunication companies
Purchases by shale oil technology companies
Robert M. | 8:18 a.m. Sept. 18, 2009
Raise the taxes on tobacco and alcohol yet again? What? How about putting
taxes on other less-than-healthy items such as sugary soft drinks, candy bars,
candies; fatty fast foods, ice cream, popcorn; and all sorts of other junk food?
How about a little itty bitty touch of fairness for once?
Comments continue below
Sick and Tired | 8:23 a.m. Sept. 18, 2009
Ever since I moved here 9 years ago this has been the same story. We are told
about twice a year (fall and winter) that the revenues are terrible, that every
body needs to tighten their belt, and then about Spring/early Summer things are
great again.
Is any one else sick and tired of this fear tactic, this gloom and doom rhetoric we get EVERY YEAR???
If we would all look at the bright side and not take these bumps in the road so seriously we could level things out. People need to go shopping, get out and LIVE, not sit at home watching the news and how "they" tell us what to think about the economy or how bad we have it. LIFE IS WONDERFUL-LET'S START LIVING IT.
Is any one else sick and tired of this fear tactic, this gloom and doom rhetoric we get EVERY YEAR???
If we would all look at the bright side and not take these bumps in the road so seriously we could level things out. People need to go shopping, get out and LIVE, not sit at home watching the news and how "they" tell us what to think about the economy or how bad we have it. LIFE IS WONDERFUL-LET'S START LIVING IT.
Grubment Control | 8:55 a.m. Sept. 18, 2009
Buried in this story is an important reflection.
The article states:
"Still, arguments can be made that tobacco use costs the state millions of dollars in health-care payments."
Can you imagine the arguments that the grubment will use to control all aspects of your life once it is the sole payer?
How about giving some thought to the reverse course of action. If we tried paying for health care and found it was too expensive due to smoking, how about discontinuing the failing program?
Then the smokers don't have to pay excess/oppressive taxes, and we don't have to pay for their health care. They will be able to make their choice and live (or die) with the consequences. If some liberal takes pity on them, then they can put them in their car and run them around town, paying for their cancer treatments.
The article states:
"Still, arguments can be made that tobacco use costs the state millions of dollars in health-care payments."
Can you imagine the arguments that the grubment will use to control all aspects of your life once it is the sole payer?
How about giving some thought to the reverse course of action. If we tried paying for health care and found it was too expensive due to smoking, how about discontinuing the failing program?
Then the smokers don't have to pay excess/oppressive taxes, and we don't have to pay for their health care. They will be able to make their choice and live (or die) with the consequences. If some liberal takes pity on them, then they can put them in their car and run them around town, paying for their cancer treatments.
kv | 10:13 a.m. Sept. 18, 2009
how about eliminating the $1,000 tax-credit per child!
wallofvoodoo | 10:19 a.m. Sept. 18, 2009
Translation. It means more pain for eveyone except lamakers who enjoy free
health insurance, per diems whether they have expenses or not & pet
projects.
SRD | 8:15 a.m. Sept. 18, 2009 | 10:57 a.m. Sept. 18, 2009
Funny that you want to eliminate so-called "corporate welfare" while
not even bothering to consider one of the largest areas of the budget:
education.
Eliminate the per child State income tax deduction for any child attending public schools. That has very little effect on the truly poor paying little or no income tax anyway. It has no effect on those who home school or private school. And it has a modest effect on higher income families, but in aggregate would raise a lot of money.
Eliminate the per child State income tax deduction for any child attending public schools. That has very little effect on the truly poor paying little or no income tax anyway. It has no effect on those who home school or private school. And it has a modest effect on higher income families, but in aggregate would raise a lot of money.
Ugh | 11:22 a.m. Sept. 18, 2009
The state already eliminated the tax credit. The Feds have a credit which is
part of your AGI so you get it indirectly at the State but it's the Feds
that have the credit.
Legislators do not enjoy free health insurance. They pay the same rates as state employees.
Legislators do not enjoy free health insurance. They pay the same rates as state employees.
jackhp | 11:37 a.m. Sept. 18, 2009
How very interesting that my question regarding the recent changes to the tax
code was not posted. I want to know, how much of the shortfall is due to the
implementation of the "flat" tax system which caps income tax rates at
5%? This was a tax cut which very heavily favored the very wealthy in our
state. Sure, it sounded fine when times were good and surpluses abounded, but
what about now? Would we have ANY shortfalls at all if we had just left a
perfectly fine tax structure alone?
die hard | 11:51 a.m. Sept. 18, 2009
First off JB_SG, How old are you?
My power bill has gone from $62.00 average per month 18 years ago to over $200.00 now (same house). And the Natural gas bill is worse! Most of us pay for all the stuff you talked about out of our own pockets.
The only thing the government has to do with most of them is that they eliminated the regulatory branch that controled the price increases and allowed the utility companys to start pounding us all.
If you want to fix government (STATE & FEDERAL),eliminate politicians pay and benefits.
Then you would get some retired succesfull people who would be there for the right reasons.
U KNOW SOMEONE WHO IS ANYTHING BUT A POLITICAN.
AND POSSIBLY HAS HAD A REAL JOB AND BILLS?
My power bill has gone from $62.00 average per month 18 years ago to over $200.00 now (same house). And the Natural gas bill is worse! Most of us pay for all the stuff you talked about out of our own pockets.
The only thing the government has to do with most of them is that they eliminated the regulatory branch that controled the price increases and allowed the utility companys to start pounding us all.
If you want to fix government (STATE & FEDERAL),eliminate politicians pay and benefits.
Then you would get some retired succesfull people who would be there for the right reasons.
U KNOW SOMEONE WHO IS ANYTHING BUT A POLITICAN.
AND POSSIBLY HAS HAD A REAL JOB AND BILLS?
Mike Richards | 11:51 a.m. Sept. 18, 2009
What does a family do when expenses exceed income? A family reduces expenses!
Sure, some families open a lemonade stand (increased taxes on a small -
non-important - segment of the population), but do families really think that a
lemonade stand is the solution?
Does the State of Utah really think that increasing taxes on "smokers" and "drinkers" is fair and equitable? Although I am a member of a church that advises against the use of alcohol and tobacco, and, although I agree 100% with that advice, I cannot sit still while STATE legislators bully my neighbors into paying a "sin" tax. As far as I know, the predominant church cares for all people, even those who don't follow its teachings. They don't give hamburger to "smokers" and steak to "non-smokers".
If those STATE legislators don't know the difference between "necessities" and "wants", they shouldn't be "serving" the public. Cut the "wants" out of the budget and you'll have plenty of money for the "necessities".
STOP buying votes! STOP telling citizens that YOU will solve THEIR personal problems!
Does the State of Utah really think that increasing taxes on "smokers" and "drinkers" is fair and equitable? Although I am a member of a church that advises against the use of alcohol and tobacco, and, although I agree 100% with that advice, I cannot sit still while STATE legislators bully my neighbors into paying a "sin" tax. As far as I know, the predominant church cares for all people, even those who don't follow its teachings. They don't give hamburger to "smokers" and steak to "non-smokers".
If those STATE legislators don't know the difference between "necessities" and "wants", they shouldn't be "serving" the public. Cut the "wants" out of the budget and you'll have plenty of money for the "necessities".
STOP buying votes! STOP telling citizens that YOU will solve THEIR personal problems!
Get a spine | 12:10 p.m. Sept. 18, 2009
Half of the households in the United States are suffering from either lost
employment or lowered income. Join the Club State workers and other
benificiaries.
Government needs to inure itself from the cries of those in the cosy club of government welfare. Suffer with us; don't dump your problems on the taxpayer.
Ease the suffering on the taxpayer. You will do more for the economy by reducing taxes than by any other means. Wealth is production of material goods. Non-productive work can be just a liability and should be kept to the bare minimum that all can agree on: enforcement of good laws, a good fire service, and sanitation. Roads are paid for out of gasoline tax and, if that tax is raided it is shameful.
Government needs to inure itself from the cries of those in the cosy club of government welfare. Suffer with us; don't dump your problems on the taxpayer.
Ease the suffering on the taxpayer. You will do more for the economy by reducing taxes than by any other means. Wealth is production of material goods. Non-productive work can be just a liability and should be kept to the bare minimum that all can agree on: enforcement of good laws, a good fire service, and sanitation. Roads are paid for out of gasoline tax and, if that tax is raided it is shameful.
Anonymous | 12:12 p.m. Sept. 18, 2009
They'll put the burden on the backs of the schools again.
Honestly we could eliminate the charter school experiment and quit duplicating existing services and save millions.
Honestly we could eliminate the charter school experiment and quit duplicating existing services and save millions.
Sterling | 12:12 p.m. Sept. 18, 2009
First of all: the legislature should revisit the illegal alien issue and put
more teeth into the law! How about no agency who receives public funds would be
allowed to print ANYTHING in spanish? How about enhanced penalties for those
who hire illegals? How about sending a bill to the feds for every illegal
housed in the county jails and NOT deported? Utahns need the jobs the
illegals are taking, AND the money stays here, and doesn't get wired to
Mexico.
Its hard to feel much sympathy for the state legislature when they GIVE AWAY Utahns tax dollars to ANYBODY who shows up here illegally!!
Its hard to feel much sympathy for the state legislature when they GIVE AWAY Utahns tax dollars to ANYBODY who shows up here illegally!!
Mike Richards | 12:54 p.m. Sept. 18, 2009
It's always easy to find a scapegoat. Point a finger at schools,
especially those that don't support the UEA. Point a finger at illegal
immigrants. Point a finger at anyone or anything that diverts attention away
from the fact that YOU benefit from taxpayer dollars.
Government does not exist to make YOUR life pleasant.
Government does not exist to pay YOUR bills.
Government DOES exist to protect you from those in power who would take advantage of your inability to stand up against those powerful forces.
Be a citizen! Be responsible! Be a doer, not a whiner! Grow up and take responsibility for your own life and take care of your own responsibilities!
Government does not exist to make YOUR life pleasant.
Government does not exist to pay YOUR bills.
Government DOES exist to protect you from those in power who would take advantage of your inability to stand up against those powerful forces.
Be a citizen! Be responsible! Be a doer, not a whiner! Grow up and take responsibility for your own life and take care of your own responsibilities!
Tax Solutions | 12:58 p.m. Sept. 18, 2009
Ya, I'm sure printing things in Spanish is what is bankrupting the state,
but I can get behind harsher punishments for those hiring illegals. I would
support a head tax for those living above a certain level of the poverty level
for more than two children. Make those who are draining our state coffers and
completely responsible for throwing out of whack the taxpayer-to-student ratio
in our state responsible for the costs the state incurs because of their
decision to have more children. Or better yet, tax churches for any income
grained that isn't going explicitly to humanitarian causes (proselytism is
not included. If you're going to run a church like a multi-national,
multi-billion dollar company then why should you get tax benefits as if you were
doing truly humanitarian work?
Mike Richards | 2:06 p.m. Sept. 18, 2009
@ 12:58,
Did I read your post correctly? Did you actually write that the 3rd or 4th or 5th child in a family was some sub-human form of life that had no right to expect the same privileges and opportunities as the 1st or 2nd child?
Did you actually say that anyone who exceeded YOUR idea of what a family is and how MANY people make up that family should be relegated to some sub-human area of the Country to be raised in some sub-human way because they had violated YOUR pre-conceived idea of what a family should be?
Are you so obtuse that you would put the life of a human being beneath a mathematical formula? Are you so concerned with taxes that you would limit life so that YOU ARE NOT INCONVENIENCED?
YOUR post indicts you. YOUR letter tells the rest of society that YOU think that YOU are more important than a little defenseless child.
Did I read your post correctly? Did you actually write that the 3rd or 4th or 5th child in a family was some sub-human form of life that had no right to expect the same privileges and opportunities as the 1st or 2nd child?
Did you actually say that anyone who exceeded YOUR idea of what a family is and how MANY people make up that family should be relegated to some sub-human area of the Country to be raised in some sub-human way because they had violated YOUR pre-conceived idea of what a family should be?
Are you so obtuse that you would put the life of a human being beneath a mathematical formula? Are you so concerned with taxes that you would limit life so that YOU ARE NOT INCONVENIENCED?
YOUR post indicts you. YOUR letter tells the rest of society that YOU think that YOU are more important than a little defenseless child.
re tax solution | 3:31 p.m. Sept. 18, 2009
Are you kidding me?
Get your facts straight?
I would guess that you are talking about the LDS church with you statement.
The Mormons do more Humanitarian aid more efficiently than all the other so called churches combined.
And by the way they also do it faster by a miracle mile than anyone else including the government.
I would also venture a guess that they provide more service hours than all other charity's and churches combined!
All while you sit on your fanny in front of the tube?
Get your facts straight?
I would guess that you are talking about the LDS church with you statement.
The Mormons do more Humanitarian aid more efficiently than all the other so called churches combined.
And by the way they also do it faster by a miracle mile than anyone else including the government.
I would also venture a guess that they provide more service hours than all other charity's and churches combined!
All while you sit on your fanny in front of the tube?
CUT SPENDING! | 9:44 p.m. Sept. 18, 2009
The legislators did a great job this year making very tough, but prudent choices
in what they could fund, and what nice to have projects would have to be cut.
They need to do it again. And again.
No sacred cow, nothing off limits.
Start by looking at ANY refundable tax credits.
Look at ANY service provide to people who are not here legally. (I cannot invite myself to come to your house for free meals, so don't come to my state and expect free stuff!)
Look at "politically correct" pet projects like "diversity training" or the like. Wasted money even if we had a surplus, but a criminal waste now.
Talk to Sheriff Joe Arpao in Phoenix and figure out how to run minimum cost incarceration facilities for less dangerous criminals. Yeah, tent cities on the salt flats should be cheaper than Point of the Mountain.
Cut the number of state owned vehicles by 25%. Give them a UTA pass if they need to go somewhere.
Cut legislators' pay by 10-25%. They went without a pay raise last year (good on them for that!) but they continue to need to show leadership.
NO TAX INCREASES!
They need to do it again. And again.
No sacred cow, nothing off limits.
Start by looking at ANY refundable tax credits.
Look at ANY service provide to people who are not here legally. (I cannot invite myself to come to your house for free meals, so don't come to my state and expect free stuff!)
Look at "politically correct" pet projects like "diversity training" or the like. Wasted money even if we had a surplus, but a criminal waste now.
Talk to Sheriff Joe Arpao in Phoenix and figure out how to run minimum cost incarceration facilities for less dangerous criminals. Yeah, tent cities on the salt flats should be cheaper than Point of the Mountain.
Cut the number of state owned vehicles by 25%. Give them a UTA pass if they need to go somewhere.
Cut legislators' pay by 10-25%. They went without a pay raise last year (good on them for that!) but they continue to need to show leadership.
NO TAX INCREASES!
Choice of picture | 3:06 a.m. Sept. 19, 2009
I'm not commenting on the article material, so much as I found it quite odd
to see a picture of 3 men laughing accompanying an article of doom and gloom.
Um, DN, I'd say it would be prudent to probably pick a different picture. Many people are visual, and gather their emotion of an article from images that may accompany it.
Um, DN, I'd say it would be prudent to probably pick a different picture. Many people are visual, and gather their emotion of an article from images that may accompany it.
Steve | 8:25 a.m. Sept. 19, 2009
The legislators should first eliminate their pay and the benefits they recieve.
Their positions should be based on a sense of civic duty rather than a job
besides I am pretty sure they would still earn the same amount of
money--lobbists and the healthcare would provide for their needs.
Oh Please | 11:07 p.m. Sept. 19, 2009
First, eliminate the $24 million subsidy to Goldman Sachs (bribe) to put an
office in SLC. GS can afford to build its own stinking offices.
Anonymous | 5:51 a.m. Sept. 23, 2009
Just increase the amount of tickets the highway patrol and the police can give.
Let them do it for 5 miles over and especiallly hit hard around high traffic
areas such as SLCC. Oh, I forgot, they are already doing that.
wallofvoodoo | 3:01 p.m. Sept. 23, 2009
Well Ugh, I'd love to pay what state employees pay for health insurance for
working a part time job.
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The budget on the other hand is a hard, boring, management document. The fact is that while people whine and moan about taxes they want everything that taxes pay for. As noted in this story, they want uncrowded schools, but don't want tax increases, they want nice roads, clean water, electricity, gas, garbage, sewage, public safety, fire departments, public libraries, parks, rec centers (why is it that every city in the state needs it's own rec center?), free internet, sports programs, public transit, fireworks, community events, and they want it all for desseret industry prices.
The legislature may have to worry about getting re-elected (as seems to be the biggest problem they face if you read this article). The rest of us who do not have jobs that allow us to take off months every year have to worry about real things. Value means quality not cheap, if you want nice things you have to pay for them.