Deseret News | 8 years after 9/11 attacks, incivility sadly rules

Reader comments
Marjorie Cortez: 8 years after 9/11 attacks, incivility sadly rules

Anonymous | 5:59 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

Much of the incivility after 9/11 came as a direct result of politicinas and news media demonizing an honorable man. George Walker Bush. Since that time it is spread everywhere, and likely won't go away until the media and politicans become statesman instead of blaming others to achieve political capitol. It seems as though these leaders are mor interested in their agendas than serving the people.

Kevin | 7:07 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

My 9/11 experience is different from Marjorie's gas station attendant. Jerry Falwell spoke out the next day and blamed the whole tragedy on people like me. And I was acquainted with 6 people who died in the WTC, 3 at KBW and 3 Sandler. Maybe we should examine the source of incivility. I think you'll find they're mostly religious conservatives.

bluecollar | 7:24 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

i blame the WWF and it's evolution into WWE and extreme wrestling.
seriously though, confrontation and bad behavior have been in the sports and entertainment community for as long as i can remember. (1950's roller derby comes to mind)
quality sports franchises impose rules of conduct and promote sportsmanship.
music awards ceremonies have often been a soapbox for performers. usually they have more class

Comments continue below

Johnny One | 8:20 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

Keep fighting amongst yourselves, all ye republicans and democrats (the two wings of our BIG BROTHER / BNIG MONEY UNIPARTY system)! The Corporate-Powers-That-Be like it that way. PS: If you are a democrat or a republican, YOU are the problem!

Imo | 8:40 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

I think that people have finally gotten sick of being used and abused by lying politicians. People are finally waking up and have drawn lines in the sand and saying no more. Being respectful has gotten them ignored so it's time to try something else. I hope that the disrespect is getting their attention because if they ignore it still it is very likely to get worse. Personally, I feel we could split up the country right now. Give a third to the socialists, a third to the conservatives, and a third to libertarians, and let them all govern themselves as they see fit.

As Howard Beale said, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore."

Let it Drop? | 8:58 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

I’ve seen some incivility since I got here in the USA, though incivility was not a new experience for me. It's not solely an American phenomenon.

I got a clue when some people were rude to me because I was born in England, even though I was here perfectly legally; they just didn't like "limeys".

Then I noticed people gave me the finger relative to undisclosed issues with my driving style. Others jumped to conclusions over various things and were rude to me over it, whatever it was. The cause remained a mystery to me.

On the other hand most people were courteous, and I have noticed rather less rudeness on the roads in recent years, and appreciate the many drivers who are civil.

I think this article is just a thinly-disguised partisan attack on Joe Wilson and his party. Although no partisan myself I understand the frustration Mr Wilson might feel with the seeming railroading of a highly controversial measure through Congress.

Joe Wilson apparently feels, as do others, that Mr Obama is disingenuous and deceitful. He may feel that lying and cheating are the height of bad manners.

"They're Mostly Religious..." | 9:01 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the uncivil and bigoted comment! You're a religious conservative, right? Just trying to demonstrate your point?

Has anyone else noticed the terrible irony of Critics? It is that they tend to characterize, in every way, those whom they despise the most. For instance, Kevin's comment seethes with hatred against religious and conservative people, whom he accuses of being the source of incivility.

Astonishing, yet typical.

I agree | 9:09 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

with you completely. I think that society as a whole was so much kinder in pre-and just post 9/11. With Bush's real clothes becoming more apparent, and the hate-filled lock-step congress he had, we've been led through war and financial ruin where everyone is upset, even high-paid athletes. I remember just after 9/11 I dropped a grocery bag and someone stopped to pick it up for me. No kind gestures like that anymore. Thanks, GW!

Mike | 9:13 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

Welcome to the world of secular humanism.

Secularism | 9:30 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

Religious conservatives have become so angry and vile that they no longer know how to have a civil discourse.

And Bias | 10:05 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

sadly rules the media. Once again, DN proves itself biased. As a conservative responder, I disagree with this writer's ulitmate goal and indictment of Joe Wilson as a result of post 9/11 'incivility', as if everyone was cheerful, brave and reverent in the pre-9/11 days. As well, she attaches this attitude to the republican party, as if democRATs are always so socially civil and kind to their opponent's views. And finally BO, the ever gracious host of the white house - always the gentleman, especially if you're willing to let him ramrod his policies past, through or over you. That post doesn't get in. The post of 9:09 praising Cortez and her like-thinking ilk makes it fine. And vitriol from the left continues on this and other blog sites within the DN. BTW, DN where's the story of uncivil ACORN?

UnremarkableFiend | 10:10 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

You want the answer to the incivility problem? Look no further than these comments. Look into the mirror. Everyone wants their say, and they want to say it no matter the cost to themselves or to society. Enough said.

Sally Jr. | 11:06 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

Ever hear of the psychological term "projection"? It's alive and well here in Utah.

Cosmo | 11:28 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

The point of this article: Wilson is evil for speaking the truth, Obama is pure for lying!

Marjorie, you are a shill for Obama.

Anonymous | 11:54 a.m. Sept. 15, 2009

so how did obama lie??? Did Glenn tell you that?

To Cosmo | 12:35 p.m. Sept. 15, 2009

You just have to feel sorry for Majorie and Anonymous. They do not understand that if they watched Glenn they would have heard of ACORN which the Deseret News did not mention today there are Van Jones rev Wright, Ayers and others this president associates with who are very uncivil. I listened to the speech to Congress and thought it was the most partisan speech i have ever heard from a President addressing Congress

Reason | 12:50 p.m. Sept. 15, 2009

Marjorie: Good column. I agree. “Disagree without being disagreeable” is a valuable concept. However, it rings a bit hollow coming from President Obama, considering that he uses his presidential “pulpit” to mock, target, and demonize those who disagree with him. If only he (and the rest of us) could follow this advice.

Just Ed | 12:50 p.m. Sept. 15, 2009

If we're looking for sources of incivility in today's civic climate, we cannot overlook the poisonous effect of AM talk radio: Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Savage, the whole sorry bunch.

Prophets are uncivil | 1:27 p.m. Sept. 15, 2009

How is it that prophets, and even good people, are so uncivil? I think they are just uncivil to bad people. They tell them they lie, that they cheat, that they kill the innocent, that they are proud, that they are selfish, that they are damned.

Such incivility often ends in their imprisonment, prosecution and/or death.

As Joseph Smith said:

"A frank and open rebuke provoketh a good man to emulation; and in the hour of trouble he will be your best friend; but on the other hand, it will draw out all the corruptions of corrupt hearts, and lying and the poison of asps is under their tongues; and they do cause the pure in heart to be cast into prison, because they want them out of their way."

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Page 137, Section Three, 1838-1839

But no one has been cast into prison; Wilson is not pure either. Maybe. Not yet, not recently, and not for lack of wishing it.

But they will cast you out of their society and speak all manner of evil against you falsely for the sake of righteousness. Jesus promised this result to all, and spoke truly.

Bill Baumgardner Sr. | 1:33 p.m. Sept. 15, 2009

I am still amazed & have still not have had this question answered: Why were there only about 3000 in those two huge buildings at that time of day? PLEASE, someone tell me that! Thank you "IF" you do know & do tell me. I also do hope you will post this so all of us that still wonder about this can MAYBE receive an answer.

Just Ed | 1:40 p.m. Sept. 15, 2009

To Prophets are Uncivil: Of course, we can always justify our incivility, can't we? It's the other guy, the one we disagree with, who is uncivil. Not me. I'm a prophet.

Good luck with that.

Truth knows no sensitivity | 2:06 p.m. Sept. 15, 2009

Where is the ethical civility of a President of the United States who thinks he can without challenge state clear and undeniable falsehoods about his HR 3200 to bodies of Congress and to the citizens of the USA. Because of Joe Wilson one little ambiguous line in the bill has been cleared up. Now people will be asked for ID upon receiving health care to ensure they are citizens and not illegals.

I would rather see outright challenges than pussyfooting in the back rooms.

Disappointed Republican | 2:24 p.m. Sept. 15, 2009

I'm a disappointed Republican. Disappointed in the shallow characters of our conservative leaders. Take Joe Wilson: Mr. Wilson is another example of someone that is less-than-patriotic publicly demeaning the Presidency. Mr. Wilson joined the Army Reserve in 1972 to avoid service in Vietnam. This was a common strategy for draft-dodgers. He continued into the National Guard, retiring as a Colonel.

His biogrqaphy says: "Throughout his life, Joe has also had a tremendous passion to serve his country as a member of the United States Armed Forces". Unfortunately Joe decided NOT to serve his country, but to avoid service by using the safe haven of the reserves and national guard to stay home, get benefits and even a retirement.

Today Joe calls for "Honest Patriots". However, he's not about to explain or appologize for his dishonesty when he could have served America. Joe Wilson is a poor voice for the Republican Party. We can do better, much better

Anonymous | 2:43 p.m. Sept. 15, 2009

The truth is, the bill was adjusted for better compliance to words already in the bill that stated illegals wouldn't qualify for health care under the bill. The language was clear to anyone with the ability to read English.

Obama has asked for feedback. All he gets back is the greatest incivility directed by a organized well funded propaganda campaign in modern history.

This makes the stream of conservative lies created by the Arkansas Project against Clinton seen civil.

There is a funny video on the Net were you hear just how stupid these people are in fact. They don't know Reagan and Bush had czars. You had people who received federal tax cuts whining about Obama increasing their taxes. It's a laugh a minute.

For the sixth time: this is the political spectrum from left to right. We learned this in government, in school.

Communist liberal moderate conservative fascist.

This is why you are doing a public display of your political stupity to call Obama a fascist. Only conservatives can be fascist.

Once, I would have asked: "have you no pride." I've seen the answer is no, you don't have any pride.

2 bits | 3:52 p.m. Sept. 15, 2009

I find it ironic and interesting that in the days following the 9/11 attacks you didn't see this type of "incivility" in America, not even amongst our politicians (who are usually the most rabid of partisan posers).

It wasn't until the shock wore off and some people started focusing on placing blame and finding a way to make political gain out of the fallout from the attacks that it got started again.

But for a few months there... We sure seemed to be united. Interesting and ironically it was in a time of war, panic and confusion that we were the most united I've ever seen us in my 50 years.

This has always been a curious and purplexing thing to me.

I'm not blaming EITHER side. There's enough blame to go around whether you blame the decision to respond to the attacks, or the political decision to turn on the decision to respond. It doesn't matter. It seems we would have reverted to our old ways regardless_of_what_decision_was_made. The point is... It seems we are right back where we were before the attacks (in terms of political incivility)... and few seem to care.

Honest Luke | 4:46 p.m. Sept. 15, 2009

Obama is the problem, not the solution.

Anonymous | 10:09 p.m. Sept. 15, 2009

I knew as I started to get into the article that eventually the poor Obama card was going to be played and sure enough...

How many more editorials chastising us over decorum and civility are we going to have to go through before we get one addressing the much more serious offense of a President lying to the American people and to the Congress?

@let it drop? | 7:45 a.m. Sept. 16, 2009

"He (Joe Wilson) may feel that lying and cheating are the height of bad manners."
Then may I suggest he stop engaging in such behaviors and especially in such a boorish manner as he did so.
Unless of course you have some evidence that no one else seems to have proving Obama lied about illegal immigrant’s access to healthcare……… I thought not.

Incivility everywhere | 8:37 a.m. Sept. 16, 2009

The truth is that incivility rules everywhere. People cut each other off in traffic without a thought. They go too slow, and when you try to pass them, they speed up so you can't. They park their grocery carts in the middle of the aisle so people can't get past. They gather in clumps in small hallways, etc., oblivious to the people who are trying to pass by. There just seems to a general attitude of not paying attention to anyone but oneself. Granted there are still polite, concerned people, but more and more I see them only caring about their own needs and ignoring those of others. So it isn't just the big-shots who are doing it.

Ultra Bob | 11:39 a.m. Sept. 16, 2009

As I understand it, the “loved ones” were all make millionaires by their loss of 911. And they are probably marshaling on quite well.

It is my opinion that events like 911, Pearl Harbor, the Alamo, are very much overly politicized for the purpose of generating a frenzy of support for the Military/Industrial groups in going to war.

In my campaign to make others realize that all wars are economic wars, I would judge the 911 incident to be an economic event rather than about freedom and liberty. Not that that makes it any less important to us, only that if we know the real reason we could fight back more effectively. As I understand it the military war in Afghanistan is simply dragging on year after year and not really progressing toward an end.

I think the real way to fight Al-Qaeda would have been to cut off their supply of new recruits and starve them out of existence. But that would have meant helping people instead of killing them. Not quite as profitable as going to war.

@ "Ultra Bob | 11:39 a.m." | 3:47 p.m. Sept. 16, 2009

Ultra Bob | 11:39 a.m.

You're just plain paranoid dude!

Jane | 8:43 p.m. Oct. 15, 2009

To Bill Baumgardner,
It was my understanding about 45,000 people were in each building and most got out safely, during 811. Obviously the people on the floors where the planes hit, died. Only a handful from the very top floors made it down 100-108 stories, to safety. A blind guy started down the stairs the second it happened and he made it over 100 floors. I've been there,(1989) and the towers were huge--seventy people fit in the elevators, on normal days. Of course, many deaths were police and firemen going in to help. I expected thousands more to die, than did.

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