Deseret News | LDS missionaries released in Guyana

Reader comments
LDS missionaries released in Guyana

Page:
1
2
Next >

Sandy | 7:40 p.m. Sept. 3, 2009

Very impressed with the Missionaries.
Very impressed with their singing
appropriate songs during their ordeal.
I feel impressed that those involved,
will be free to continue their Christian
efforts, wheresoever they are sent.

Anonymous | 9:02 p.m. Sept. 3, 2009

Their detained for a few hours and it's called an "ordeal"?

LBR | 4:33 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

I kind of wish they had sung "We Shall Overcome." Sounds all cheeky and defiant. I'm sorry that seems not to have been true.
And it's not too much of a stretch to call being "detained for a few hours" in some banana republic an "ordeal" when it could well have lead to who knows what kind of consequences. How long does something like that have to go on to be considered an ordeal?

Comments continue below

Stando | 5:30 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Anonymus,
Have you been outside the country? I'm sure it isn't too comfortable to be detained by foreign officials...

Skippy | 6:11 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Hang in there missionaries. We are praying for you.

Re: Anonymous 9:02 | 6:13 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

No, the real ordeal is having to continually read stuff like "Their detained..." instead of "They are (or were) detained..."

jimelko | 6:42 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Ordeal? All of us go thru this ordeal every time we go to DMV

K | 6:46 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

This is the exact reason why the mission President shouldn't collect and lock up any missionary passport other than their own. What if they are detained first? In most countries you are required to carry it with you at all times.

Ron | 6:49 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Well, we shall overcome whether we sing it or not.

Re:K | 7:38 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

I went to this mission and there are 15 Countries in the Mission, YOu have you passport with you at all times. Alot of times you, and your companion, are the only two elders in the entire country. No Senior couples or anything like that, but you are required to have your passport with you.

Be honest???? | 7:43 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

I think we as church members need to set an example and start obeying immigration laws. When I served my mission in England, my passport was taken from me the first hour upon arrival and wasn't given back to me until it was time to go home. I was breaking the law for 2 years, I should have had it in my possession at all times. Even more shocking, why are we aiding and abetting illegal aliens who want to serve missions. (Driving rather than flying so they stay under the radar, keeping them here in the USA, etc.) I am disturbed by all of this and it makes the temple recommend questions asked of me seem like a joke. Am I honest, are you kidding? Why ask that??? Does it matter???

Angela | 8:12 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

We have to pray, never lose our faith and wait until everything is right. I am sure that people from Church is working hard on it so, we can not speculate about how things are.

Ordeal? | 8:33 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

I had a 12-hour layover in a 3rd world airport recently. Is that an ordeal?

Valerie | 8:36 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

It say alot that these Mormon American(?)missionaries don't know We Shall Overcome! Way to go, Utah.

Way to Go Valerie | 9:27 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

So the fact that these missionaries don't know "We Shall Overcome" in some way minimizes the gravity of their situation or the fact that they deserve our concern and prayers? Sounds a little intolerant if you ask me...I don't know the words to that song either. Perhaps you could share the words with all of us and explain why the song is important to you....thanks.

Been There | 9:29 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Having spent much time in Guyana as a missionary, I can confirm that these missionaries did go through an "ordeal". The government and law enforsement officials do not function as in the US and many times what they SAY is law, is law, written or not. Also, there is no air conditioning available in the buildings there and Guyana is a very hot tropical, jungle third world country! No matter what the circumstances, fear of the unknown creates a genuine "ordeal".

Hey Valerie | 9:39 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Do you know the words to the song? I'm old enough to know the song and I only know the chorus.

It's not real important to know that song anyway.

Dennis | 9:44 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

To Valerie: What are you trying to say? If someone does not know the words to that particular song they are un-american? Excuse me, but I did not know that it was our national anthem or a song that we memorize just in case we need to satisfy people like you. Oh wait a minute, I guess we may just need to use it with this current administration we have running this country.

Have to agree | 9:52 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

No "ordeal," and I'm glad that the missionaries aren't trying to make more of it than it was. Compared to our detention of people in the country illegally (as the missionaries were), this is pretty mild.

@Valerie | 9:54 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Perhaps they didn't know the words to "We Shall Overcome", because they have better things to do than learn a protest song. From what I have heard, the protesters who sing that song don't know the words either, they just fake it. Oh, and by the way, what makes you think this has anything to do with just Utah? Missionaries come from all states, scores of countries and so many different backgrounds.

How's your thumb?

Celeste | 10:04 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Yeah... I wonder if it's the first time ever or it was first time it has been reported. As Media is becoming merciless, exposing minor situation making it sound bad. Well, It's one of the signs of the Times... God is in the works. Don't worry things will work out fine... In fact, it's exactly why we need to enforce our immigration laws as well, other countries are not letting off people that easy compared to America, you know... IMHO

NC Mom | 10:11 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

The words to We Shall Overcome are really difficult to learn. We Shall Overcome, We Shall Overcome, We Shall Overcome, Someday. Deep in my heart, I do believe, We Shall Overcome someday.

We shall overcome | 10:11 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Hmm a civil rights song from over 40 years ago, and a bunch of 20 year olds have never heard the words. Who'dathunkit!

Lived through the 60's 70's etc | 10:15 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Re: "We Shall Overcome"

Heard it over and over, and all I can remember hearing as far as the words go, is

We Shall Overcome repeated several times, and then "In the End"!

More words than that I don't know, but the sentiment is always adequately expressed with singing "We Shall Overcome, In the End"

Cjones | 10:17 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

In Ecuador we never carried our passports since they were considered valuables and carrying anything of value in a country like that is just asking for it.

kathyn | 10:24 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

I had figured that the missionaries didn't sing "We Shall Overcome" as was first reported. Most of them are too young to remember that song, in the first place; and in the second place, it's most likely they would have chosen to sing hymns (which they did, it turns out). Fie on all of you who made a big deal out of that song.

viking | 10:36 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Be careful of your comments. I am LDS living in a country at this time that monitors our Church quite closely. Several months ago someone made a comment here in DN that was negatively received by officials in this country and they made it difficult for Saints here until it blew over. Do not make comments about treatment by foreign nationals unless you know the facts or you can do serious damage to the Saints living in the country being disparaged.

Can you believe it? | 11:25 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Yep--they blew it! Weren't these young 20 something missionaries from all over the U.S. taught the important 60's protest songs? Wasn't the school choir at the school REQUIRED to teach that song and have it sung daily? It's baffling to me that with education permeated with leftist doctrine (Obama books required reading for civics classes and American History classes in college that this song wasn't drilled into the brains of these young people. And what of Utah as the young woman said? What does this say about Utah since all these young people are somehow linked the this state? Aren't these all incredibly valid points???

gw | 11:43 a.m. Sept. 4, 2009

When I served in France as a missionary, the application for a "Carte de Sejour" or resident alien card took months to process. Like Guyana, the authorities give you a receipt to carry as a temporary ID. The bureaucracy was so inefficient there that the actual Carte de Sejour took almost two years to get processed. I received it one week before leaving the country.

American missionaries have to make sure they follow all the rules and laws of the countries where they reside. It's easy to get caught up in the work and ignore the expiration of an important document. My "reciept" expired several times and I always had to go get it renewed. Doing so saved me from a serious problem.

I was in a city in the Basque region and there was a bombing by some Basque separatists. My companion and I were just a couple of streets away from it. The French security officers (CRS) grabbed us and demanded our papers. I was REALLY glad that mine were in order on that day.

It makes you appreciate the freedom and security we enjoy in the USA. A foreign mission is a real adventure!

To: RE K | 12:04 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Yesterday it was posted in the comments section about this that Missionaries at one point serving in England would forfeit their passports to the Mission president upon entering their area and they didn't see them until their time was over.

I'm glad to hear that practice changed or is not a regular practice.

Midwest Member | 12:14 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

I think that the point is the reference to "that song." I hope the missionaries don't feel that being associated with "that song" was somehow offensive. This well-known protest song is specifically associated with the American Civil Rights movement. Ironically, it is also considered a hymn, and was written by a minister. I think that the very essence of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that deep in our hearts, we believe that we shall ALL overcome someday.

Jim Bond | 12:19 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

I have done many missions and have been through much bigger and more dangerous ordeals than these guys have just been through but I never once sang "we shall overcome" .. why would one do that ? Makes no sense to me.

Leeh | 1:27 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

HHMM makes me wonder how accurate any reporting of any situation is... especially with a flub like We Shall Overcome from LDS missionaries---I haven't heard that song since I moved away from Georgia! Anyway, another point is that it doesn't matter if the ordeal lasted a few seconds, a few minutes, or hours--anytime you have a semi-automatic pointed at you by any uniformed military-looking individual, you WILL call it an ordeal!

JW Morrison | 1:41 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Having been detained myself in a foreign country I understand that it can be an ordeal. Regardless of the problems we have in this country, we often take our freedoms for granted. Most people who complain most about our system would not be allowed to complain in many other countries. My ordeal was in Mexico for a false complaint that included police with rifles, extortion, and a beating.

AZ Beehive | 1:45 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

You all are silly! Make a big huge deal out of nothing. That was funny about the DMV comment.

That's Guyana for you... | 1:47 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Having interned with the church's legal offices overseas, I can say that the church is extremely careful about visas to a fault, and complies with local laws even when local law enforcement doesn't. This is particularly true in South American countries, like Guyana, who have a rather, shall we say, flexible devotion to the rule of law.

That said, many times, these countries like to suddenly change the rules on missionaries (and virtually any other traveler) as they please, so this sort of thing is hardly out of the ordinary - just a good way to solicit bribes or flex muscles.

here are the words | 1:48 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Here you go!

1.
We shall overcome
We shall overcome
We shall overcome some day

CHORUS:
Oh, deep in my heart
I do believe
We shall overcome some day

2.
We'll walk hand in hand
We'll walk hand in hand
We'll walk hand in hand some day

CHORUS

3.
We shall all be free
We shall all be free
We shall all be free some day

CHORUS

4.
We are not afraid
We are not afraid
We are not afraid some day

CHORUS

5.
We are not alone
We are not alone
We are not alone some day

CHORUS

6.
The whole wide world around
The whole wide world around
The whole wide world around some day

CHORUS

7.
We shall overcome
We shall overcome
We shall overcome some day

hev | 2:45 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

or·deal (ôr-dēl')
n.
A difficult or painful experience, especially one that severely tests character or endurance. See Synonyms at trial.
A method of trial in which the accused was subjected to physically painful or dangerous tests, the result being regarded as a divine judgment of guilt or innocence.

Hmmm, we lost a child at age 14, my husband is disabled from many spine surgeries, had cardiac bypass and nearly died. Financial struggles are the norm for my family. I guess we are living the "ordeal" life. hahahaha

Lighten up on using the word "ordeal." If it caused stress, it's an ordeal.

to: AZ Beehive | 2:54 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

And others who lightly dismiss this ordeal. You have an advantage that those missionaries did not have. You are reading after the fact, the duration of the incident. They did not know how long they would be detained. Hindsight removes the uncertainty.

Peter | 3:36 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

Thanks for the words to "We Shall Overcome" (I did know the first verse and chorus!) We ALL have something that we need to overcome. Illness, addiction, political oppression,sin, bad habits, over eating etc. The list goes on. The words to "We Shall Overcome" are applicable to all of us.

John Pack Lambert | 3:45 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

To the 12:14 commentator,
You miss many points. One is that people have claimed if the missionaries had been involved in singing it it would have counted as hypocrisy.
Secondly, it is a confrontational song that sung would be the most open expression that the people you are dealing with are tyrants as opposed to government officials trying to do their jobs.
This is a situation where no matter what you do you will be denounced.

David | 6:45 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

To John Pack Lambert,

"This is a situation where no matter what you do you will be denounced."

The missionaries were in violation of the law. They deserved to be denounced, as do you if you persist in defending those who violate the law.

cobaryn | 8:22 p.m. Sept. 4, 2009

I went to Scotland for my mission. Yes, the Mission Home kept my passport. They were high theft items, even then. I can't imagine now. We were issued a booklet that we had to carry with us all the time, and whenever we were transfered, we had to immediately register with the police. I did not find it a problem at all. Of course, terrorism was just something in the movies.

ordeal | 4:51 a.m. Sept. 5, 2009

ordeal ordeal ordeal ordeal say it 10 times really fast. ordeal ordeal ordeal. gee what a silly word it becomes. ordeal ordeal ordeal almost as silly as the whiners who are picking at it. Find something important to do. In fact, writing this comment was a waste of my time.

suesue | 7:55 a.m. Sept. 5, 2009

My son was just called to Argentina. Does anyone know if he will experience these types of issues there?

Smed | 9:30 a.m. Sept. 5, 2009

Wow-- In a country with so many problems, they are worried about 50 20 year old people teaching people how to better their lives, overstaying their visaa? If they were waiting final approval, what does the law say about their status?
If they were so illegal, why werent they deported?
Immigration laws SHOULD be enforced. They should also be clearly defined, so that they can be enforced and obeyed. From what I have heard, the church tries very hard to obey the laws. I would like to learn more about the comment made regarding the church 'smuggling' illegials into the country... Any facts to back that statement up?

Anonymous | 11:24 a.m. Sept. 5, 2009

Oh John Pack Lambert. Do you ever shut up?

Anonymous | 12:51 p.m. Sept. 5, 2009

From personal experience, it is rather difficult to have paper work processed in this country. Most of the officials have a rather laissez-faire attitude when it comes to official documents. Don't get me wrong, I love the people of Guyana and did everything to serve them for eight months of my life; however even to have a marriage license sent to you after your marriage could take several months. I'm sure the immigration documents are about six months back-logged. One of the few things that would help Guyana at this point, in my opinion, would be to increase their technology to allow for quicker processing of immigration documentation. The church members in Guyana are some of the most amazing and dedicated people I know, though, and so I perceive no problems with the church moving forward with full speed.

Song and situation | 1:19 p.m. Sept. 5, 2009

There is a very clear association with the song We Shall Overcome and the situation described. One commentor wrote "The missionaries were in violation of the law". That may or may not be true. What we do know is that they were held in custody because they were Mormon missionaries, just like black people in America were frequently rounded up a held for things like going to a white school, riding in the white part of the bus or DWB (driving while black) in a white neighborhood. "We Shall Overcome" wasn't sung as an in your face assertion but as a quiet testimony of faith in a righteous outcome. So - if the missionaries had known it and sung it, it would have been appropriate. The fact that they didn't, and many of the commentors apparently didn't know it or know how and when it was used explains a lot about why many of you are so suspicious about everything Pres. Obama says and does and why it is so hard for our black converts to really intergrate into our lily white wards.

husband won't let me leave name | 1:27 p.m. Sept. 5, 2009

because we are American's also living in the West Indies. This is definitely an "ordeal" and I wouldn't want to be detained for an hour at the police station where we live. It's not like it is in the States, "law" today might not be tomorrow, common gestures could be mistaken as threats, there is a crime rate many times highter than in the largest cities in the U.S. military walking around with machine guns, etc. You DON'T know what kind of "ordeal" they went through unless you have been in their shoes! And it's true that they may have been in complete compliance with the local govt. a month ago and now the regulations are different, just because they want them to be. Satan wants to do everything to stop this work you know, don't you think these problems are just another obstacle to stop the missionaries from being out there teaching the gospel?

Page:
1
2
Next >

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.