Comments about ‘LDS missionaries may be deported from Guyana’

What's going on in this world!

Did someone forget to read the memo on the new VISA requirements? This is kind of weird, but governments love throwing out these types of problems in the wake of any work going forward.

From the first paragraph of the article, it seems clear the missonaries were detained and are to be deported for not having "updated travel documents". I don't quite understand the concluding paragraphs of the article where no one seems to know why they were detained. Don't get me wrong, I do hope (and yes, pray) the courts uphold the injunction filed by Nigel Hughes and the missionaries are allowed to stay and continue working. But, isn't the real question, "Why didn't the missionaries have 'updated travel documents'?" From my experience as a Public Affairs Missionary 3 years ago in several foreign countries, I know the Church is very careful, even fastideous about obeying a country's entry and visa laws. We have missionaries in countries that issue limited visas for six months or a year. Missionaries routinely leave these counties (cross the border) for a day when their visas expire and then re-enter with an "updated" visa granted by the country's immigration authorities.

It's my understanding that the LDS church was waiting on their attorneys to settle the matter and simply that it's not as easy as it sounds. My Parents are the senior couple mentioned in the article. We got a real shock while watching Fox news during their report on the incident when we saw my parents picture along with other missionaries. We knew there were problems, probably stemming from other religious leaders influencing the government because they're angry when their congregation is moved to join the LDS church, however things seemed to be fine. i spoke to my parents the last couple weeks and they didn't sound nervous. I don't think anyone knew it would come to this. My family is assured that they are all ok, from another Elder in their mission, however we still haven't heard from our parents and are worried sick about them. My brothers and sisters wish they would call. We tried calling them on 8 different numbers and on their Skype account. I'm sure the Elder is right but It would help us sleep if we had a phone call.

I know in the past they were very careful about following all of the rules, even sending missionaries out of a country every so often to obtain a visa renewal. However, during the past few years it appears that corners are being cut.

For example, in the past if a member of the church who was an illegal alien wanted to serve a mission, they had to first return to their home country before getting called. Today the church has an elaborate program to allow illegal aliens to serve as missionaries within the U.S., arranging private travel in order to avoid immigration authorities.

This doesn't work all the time, as an illegal alien missionary returning home after his mission was detained and processed for deportation after attempting to board an airplane with a fake Id. Perhaps they need to raise the bar and go back to following immigration laws more precisely.

RE: Did I Miss Something?

"From the first paragraph of the article, it seems clear the missonaries were detained and are to be deported for not having "updated travel documents". I don't quite understand the concluding paragraphs of the article where no one seems to know why they were detained.....But, isn't the real question, "Why didn't the missionaries have 'updated travel documents'?"

From the sound of the article the Senior Couple and Missionaries were responsible for updating their visa status and were unsure of the rules. It's also likely that the couple in question are the ones who are responsible for missionary visa's and were not aware of the requirement to renew the visas.

A clerical oversight, an untrained Senior Couple and other problems could have easily caused them to fail to renew and obtain new travel documents.

They aren't lawyers and not being lawyers means that they aren't likely to know every single requirement. I would hope they would know the requirements of the law but you can't expect them to know everything.

Invalidating travel documents is generally the first step a country uses as a bargaining tool to get something they want or to get something stopped. North Korea & other similar countries use this tactic. Real world poker. Raise, bluff, call. Almost always ends when the visiting country (us) accedes to the demands of the host country. It's a pain in the you-know-what, but should end shortly & without any injuries or loss of life.

Great song to sing from jail, but how many Mormons know the words? I bet it was something else more familair to the missionaries, but unknown to the witness of the singing. Maybe, "We are all enlisted til the conflict is o'er" Or "Called to serve" or something like that. I am currently serving in a US Embassy, and I predict this will be resolved long before the deadline.

Dont the Guyanese realize that the missionaries are trying to get eternal salvation for them so how can the Guyanese do this to us?

I somehow doubt the missionaries were singing "We Shall Overcome". More likely it was a Mormon hymn the reporter wasn't familiar with.

Has this made anyone else wonder how in the near future the Lord will bring the missionaries home?

Probably what happened is that the Guyana government issued new requirements an hour or so before arresting the missionaries but we'll have to wait for more information.

Is it just possible that this is a political move ala Chavez?

I agree. It is strange. I could see a few missionaries 'forgetting" to do this or having difficulty renewing them. But 38? and a Sr. couple? There is definitely more to this story.

not mine or yours. They call the shots.

I find it interesting that if true it is ironic that the missionaries would sing "we shall overcome" which gained popularity in the states during the civil rights days of the 60s. At that time, the Mormon church opposed civil rights for the blacks in America. Ironic... totally ironic.

I won't say where it was but I recently served a senior LDS mission in a foreign country and had to exit and return every few weeks to 'renew' my documents. We were always at the mercy of officials when we returned, never sure if we'd get back in the country. Sometimes young missionaries were detained at the border crossing for a hour or more and questioned.

Lawyers in and out of the country worked on the problem the entire time we were there but as far as I know it was never resolved. We felt that it was only miracle after miracle that allowed us to serve our entire 18 months there...

Singing "We Shall Overcome"! Now that's rich. How many of them even understand the civil rights movement? How many of them sympathize with the black population which was enslaved and which suffer from residual racism? I'm betting most are white, Republican Westerners, and as such have no clue of the African-American experience.

because the travel documents is a made up excuse. Sometimes governments do that to get rid of people they don't want around. Not saying that's what happened, but it seems a pretty extreme reaction to round them all up and throw them in jail instead of bring to their attention what needed to be "updated" on their documents.

Just wondering | 5:03 a.m. Sept. 3, 2009:

"Has this made anyone else wonder how in the near future the Lord will bring the missionaries home?"

To me, no. Things like this happen on occasion. Until missionary activity is fundamentally blocked there, it would probably be a good idea not to take this as too big a sign.

Our job is to do what the Lord asks in spreading the gospel until further notice. Let the Lord do the calling home. Until that time, speculating on when the missionaries will be called home can have the effect of slackening our resolve to carry out the commission we've already received. Let us do our best and leave the rest with the Lord and His servants: the prophets and apostles.

I served in Japan and have had children serve in many foreign countries, including Germany, Russia, and Ukraine. In all cases, there have been instances of local law enforcement tracking down Mormon missionaries and providing some reason why their travel documents "were not in order" and demanding that they leave.

One of my sons had to leave the city where he was before he was arrested because they were rounding up all the Mormon missionaries. His documents were just fine and no changes were made. In the next city, no problem.

There is more to this than meets the eye.