Deseret News | Joseph Smith 'The Seer Stone'

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Joseph Smith 'The Seer Stone'

THEeyepatch | 12:22 a.m. Aug. 30, 2009

Gypsies had crystal balls. Wiccans use tarot cards, I wish I had a "Seer stone", I would use it to see what kind of country the USA will become.

Henry | 9:23 a.m. Aug. 30, 2009

This was a very well written article. I wish I'd been able to be in that class.

Seer Stone | 12:27 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

Joseph would have been better off if he could have translated Greek.
(Isaiah 29:14 KJV,D&C 4:1)" A Marvelous work and Wonder"
The Apostles Bible(Greek Septuagint Isaiah 29:14)"And I will destroy,'the wisdom of the wise."
God's judgement against the alliance between Judah and Assyria. (unwise)
(1Cor 1:19 KJV and Greek NT)"*For it is written,"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise." (so-called wise. * The Apostles often quoted the Septuagint

Comments continue below

Truth | 2:46 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

For years now we have come to believe that the only sources of truth must come through the scientific method and our five senses. Our modern society has institutionalized and rigidly defined the pursuit of knowledge, and doubters of religion cannot think outside of this box. For example, a good poet can discern and express truths about emotions and life experiences in ways that cannot be proven with testtubes and theories. If one cannot understand the exact mechanics and methods of how prophets receive revelation, at least allow that perhaps there are realities beyond what we currently can detect.

Ronnie Bray | 3:22 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

It is sad that the modern generation of faithful Saints are out of touch with the history of the early Church and, consequently, not getting to know Joseph the Seer intimately.

There are some excellent bios of Joseph available from all good bookstores that identify his character, temperament, spirituality, seer-ship, genius, and prophetic vision.

It is probable that the ability to use a seer stone correctly is not dependent on the characteristics or qualities of the particular stone, but on the qualities and characteristics of the person seeing into the seer stone - scrying.

The Old Testament is replete with objects used by Hebrew prophets as means through which they gained access to the mind and will of yhvh.

The character and fate of the United States is inextricably linked to the characters of its people, thus it will be the express image of its people and in the likeness of their characters.

It is the responsibility of Everyman.

RE: Seer Stone 12:27 | 3:40 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

"A Marveous Work and wonder" Mormons beleive this to be the Book of Mormon. You do not need to read Greek to explain that this is not the BOM to a Mormon friend or Missionary.
I just go online to the English translation of Greek Septuagint(Isaiah 29:14)and show them the difference vs KJV. and the (NIV modern translation)Tranlates it,to be" with wonder upon wonder"Ths is about Gods' judgement not the BOM.

No wonder they have'nt a modern translation

'

Fredd | 3:45 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

Truth-You compare poets and emotions with science? At least this article admits Smith was into the occult.

RE: Seer Stone | 4:02 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

NOT sure why so you are crazy about the greek translation, or why it so special,

NONE of writers of the bible wrote and spoke in greek, though some may have learned it,

it was NOT thoer natural language,

so the greek translation is just another translation.

Joseph Smith, from what I understand, actually prefered the GERMAN translation, and thought it the most correct of translations

INteresting, how spirituality is something we MUST learn,

Seer, it was tought is way of saying SEE-ER, and apparently we MUST learn to HOW to see with our "spiritual eyes".

Our first poster has shown us something else,

NO MATTER what GOD can do or has given us,

SATAN always has a counterfeit version designed to decieve and lead astray.

Fraud Alert | 4:13 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

What a crock. You are confusing emotions with physics. Science and art are very different. That is why they are on separate tracks. Go read your tea leaves and stare at the sun.

Anonymous | 5:02 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

Um, yes seer stones. I am sure God would like this concept. Meybe one of you mormon could explain wait you have done with his name here on earth.

Lester | 5:28 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

Why dosen't the church use the seer stone today.

RE : Seer Stone 4:02 | 5:54 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

"None of writers of the Bible wrote in Greek"

The entire New Testament was written in Greek by the Apostles,as well as,the Church Fathers,who wrote spoke and read Greek.
The OT (Apostles Bible) Septuagint was written in Greek around 250 years B.C.
Mormons very rarely study Greek,those few that realy do,leave the Church or keep thier mouth closed,or quote Greek to English Lexicons.

P.T. Barnum | 5:57 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

I don't understand Joseph Smith's need for any seer stones. Surely if God could appear to Joseph Smith directly, He wouldn't need to give him seer stones. That doesn't even make sense, any more than needing an ipod and ear buds today to be able to listen to God. Certainly if Jesus could walk on water and turn water into wine, He too could talk directly to Mr. Smith.

Who's Zooming Who? | 6:28 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

The more I read about Mormonism, the more I'm reminded of the Wizard of Oz. You have a fraud that people believe in, true believers who follow him, not to mention people who don't use their brains. Your temples and Celestial Kingdom remind me of the Great City of Oz.

Solar seer stones | 7:05 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

I love hoaxes-- Because people are so weak minded that they will always fall for some strange tale or gimmick--lol!!!

Bring forth these solar, seer rocks. I want to see one for myself. Do they have extra energized batteries included?

Brent Paxton | 7:06 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

What are seer stones? I don't quite get the context of the story or the comments.

Anonymous | 8:29 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

How could the Apostles write the New Testament in 250 BC? Also, you seem to be under the conclusion that we don't believe in the Bible, when in fact we do. In fact there are several chapters from the Bible in the Book of Mormon. All prophets occasionally quoted other prophets of every age. As for member who study greek, I don't think you can speak for all of them. I'm sorry you have become disillusioned, but please don't assume that you can speak for all of them. As far as seer stones go, God speaks to man in the way man cam understand. If Joseph needed to use a stone, then the Savior utilized that tool. Just because He is all powerful, doesn't mean we can always understand that power. It does not lesson the great work he did.The seer stone enabled Joseph to understand things he didn't before.Once he began to understand, he didn't need them anymore.

Anonymous | 8:39 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

Please don't assume that just because you don't understand us that we are weak minded or have empty heads. as a church we are encouraged to question the church doctrine all the time and find out for ourselves what we believe. Those of us with strong testimonies have questioned and studied it out. You can rail against us all you want, but all that proves is that you are too weak hearted to try to understand us and afford us the courtesy you give other human beings. We are all just people trying to find our way. we all deal with the same hardships and pains in this life. Can we not treat each other with respect if not affection?

Anonymous | 8:43 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

Why did Jesus use mud to heal the beggars eyes? Did Jesus really need to use the mud when on so many other occasions he didn't use anything at all? No, it was because the man needed Him to use something so his faith would work. Miracles are dependant upon our faith.

Re Anonymous 8;29 | 9:16 p.m. Aug. 30, 2009

The Greek Septuagint was written 250, BC by 70 Jewish Scholars who could read Greek, The Apostles and Jesus quoted from the Septuagint,hence the Apostles Bible.

Imagination | 1:44 p.m. Aug. 31, 2009

"Imagine. What must it have been like for Joseph to translate this very passage and all-of-a-sudden dawn on him the he's the choice seer?" Holzapfel said.

Joseph Smith writes a book calling himself a predicted seer. Imagine that.

Nick | 2:05 p.m. Aug. 31, 2009

Um, are all you Anonymouses ignoramuses?

Who ever said the New Testament was written 250 years BC? Anonymous | 8:29 p.m., are you for real? Were you educated by the con-man Mr. Holzapfel at BYU?

The Septuagint is a Greek version of the OLD TESTAMENT, not the NT! Duh! It was the basis for what the writers of the New Testament referenced when they quoted from the OT (the Jewish scriptures). It is the only form in which we have access to the entire OT (so-called). There are pieces of the OT in original languages, but not the entire thing. Therefore, if you want to understand the Bible (OT and NT), you must understand Greek! And that includes Greek history, culture, and all the subtle nuances of figurative language that gives meaning to idioms and expressions that LDS commonly misinterpret.

Any questions?

RE: Nick | 4:46 p.m. Aug. 31, 2009

IF greek is just ranslation of olderdocuments,

THEN HERE IS MY QUESYTION:

Wouldn't it be better to study the originals rather than a later translation?

Because WHO KNOWS what was lost or changed in the translation.

Thank God, we have living prophest in these days to give CORREECT information and DOICTRINE,

and thank GOd we have Joseph Smith A PROPHET AND SEER, to restore what was lost or changed by all the "translations".

Google it | 5:40 p.m. Aug. 31, 2009

To 4:46

We don't have the original documents for the New Testament. What we have are copies of copies of copies.

People wrote in Greek in Jesus' day, that's why Biblical scholars must learn ancient Greek.

You say, "Because WHO KNOWS what was lost or changed in the translation."

You're right about that. Words have been changed and text has been added as proven by Biblical scholars.

When people know little about the Bible, they are susceptible to being told falsehoods by self-proclaimed prophets.

Answer Me This Please | 6:52 p.m. Aug. 31, 2009

So if God wants to teach us something, why would He use such an outdated and erroneous textbook as the Bible? Why doesn't He just speak to us all instead of perpetuating this nonsense. State the facts and clear things up.

Why does he need to speak to an old fart in Salt Lake and leave the whole world guessing whether it is revelation or opinion? Seems like a mighty inefficient way to run the Universe, given that He is apparently ALLMIGHTY.

Nick To 4:46 | 12:30 p.m. Sept. 1, 2009

Althouth Jesus never wrote a word that we know of, he would likely have spoken and written in Aramaic, a dialect of Hebrew heavily influenced by the Greco-Roman linguistic and cultural context in which the Jews of his day lived.

According to the manuscripts that have been vetted for hundreds of years, and considered authentic (meaning authentic copies), Jesus never commanded anyone to write anything about his teachings or life.

What was written about Jesus was previously passed on by word of mouth. This oral tradition has always been known to be a source of significant modification of the original message. The earliest manuscripts about Jesus are optimistically dated to around 50-80 years AFTER his death. As such, our best understanding is that what we know of Jesus was passed around by word of mouth - what we call "gossip" today - for at least half a century before anyone wrote anything down!

Can you imagine what an illiterate people might write about Michael Jackson 50 years from now if only gossip and rumors told the story?

The problem I have with Mormonism is it is TOO MUCH like the KJV NT! There is nothing new in Mormonism.

Anonymous | 12:46 p.m. Sept. 1, 2009

To Answer Me this PLease,

The Lord has used the same pattern since Adam, He reveals His will to prophets. The prophets speak to us, it is up to us to follow and obey (not blindly, but with faith). Yes, the Lord could reveal to you everything, but then where is the test. You came to earth to be tested, if you aren't tested, there is no growth. Look at the big picture, don't look through a straw at life, widen your view of the purpose of life. The Lord does what He does for a wise purpose in Himself. He is helping us become something. If you look, you will see that He has given you plenty of opportunity to accept Him and obey His words.

Answer Me This | 5:43 p.m. Sept. 1, 2009

To Anonymous 12:46

David Koresh told his duped minions the same thing. So did Rev. Jones. They use your argument and rhetoric to exploit naive and gullible people, often resulting in the suffering and death of their followers. The same thing happened with those "pionerrs" who followed "Brother Brigham"!

Worship no man | 6:37 p.m. Sept. 1, 2009

To Anonymous 12:46

Everyone must obtain their own spiritual experience and revelation. We must not depend on any other for this, not even so-called prophets.

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