Deseret News | For legislative reform, voters must reclaim political process

Reader comments
John Florez: For legislative reform, voters must reclaim political process

Anonymous | 4:57 a.m. Aug. 24, 2009

Florez has a good gig at the D-News. He just keeps recycling the same article week after week.

Fair Voter | 5:48 a.m. Aug. 24, 2009

The experience of democracies that have replaced the single-member district, winner-take-all, two-party electoral system for the more competitive and representative, multi-party proportional voting system is higher voter turnout and a closer fit between voter preference and electoral outcomes.

For more information, visit FairVote: The Center for Voting and Democracy.

incumbents win | 6:35 a.m. Aug. 24, 2009

Incumbents win 90% of the time. Great advantages. And they use them. 90% of the time.

wow. I say throw the bums out.

Comments continue below

Mike Richards | 6:57 a.m. Aug. 24, 2009

As long a people are content to sit back and complain (just like me), instead of running for office, we'll have the same bunch of politicians holding office.

S2 | 7:19 a.m. Aug. 24, 2009

Most Americans have been made to pay almost nothing for their freedoms; there's little chance they'll see its true value before there is something starkly contrasting it to compare. Humans rarely learn the lessons learned by trial and failure throughout man's history. Americans aren't special in that regard. Americans will be forced to get it the old way, the hard way.

If it were just Ozcare, if it were just Crap-on-Trade, if it were just one of any number of things, yeah, sure, we can pull it back between the stripes. No, when every single purpose of the ruling powers appears to be condescendingly destructive, the end is not far off, and then the vote will be gone.

No R or D's | 7:43 a.m. Aug. 24, 2009

Simple. Just make sure no one votes for any R or D candidate. Lets form a 3rd party, or join an existing one of your choice. But don't ever vote for R or D again! I don't recall ever seeing someone on these boards say that either R or D really represented their views. Why vote for them?

reality check | 8:27 a.m. Aug. 24, 2009

Hey no R an D,

The reason you haven't seen that (don't vote R or D)on this board is that it makes no sense. When you want something changed in Washington you have to get it done through existing channels.

Vote and campaign for a candidate with integrity.

When you have an issue with something does that make it an R or a D issue? Usually it makes it your issue regardless of which party is in power.

Utah has a very high rate of bankruptcies due to the high cost of healthcare. The reason for that is we care about people and we step up and attempt to pay for their healthcare and we go bankrupt trying.

The existing governments would have you believe the healthcare is a Democratic issue. Bullwinkle

Investigating the issue it would benefit our country to have an overhaul of the existing plan. A recent study by Price Waterhouse shows half of the 2.2 trillion currently spent is wasted. Would you feel good about wasting 50 cents of everyone of your dollars? Healthcare needs to be fixed and it will never get cheaper.

Florez | 8:30 a.m. Aug. 24, 2009

Awesome. More plattitudes please, Mr. Florez.

What a waste of column space.

Mike Richards | 8:53 a.m. Aug. 24, 2009

@ 8:27,

You used a broad statement: "Utah has a very high rate of bankruptcies due to the high cost of healthcare."

I disagree. Of all the people that I know who have filed for bankruptcy, not one of them blamed health-care or health-insurance as the major cause. For that matter, not one of them listed health-care costs as even a minor cause.

The loss of a job as the #1 cause. Having a house too large for their budget was #2. Having consistently spent more (credit card debt) than they could pay for was #3.

Why did they loose a job? The #1 reason was that the company that they worked for could not compete with foreign companies that were not held to the same standard as American companies. The #2 reason was that their jobs went to undocumented workers. The #3 reason was they simply didn't have the required skill set.

Mr. Florez sees the problem. Our legislators can fix employment problems #1 and #2. We have to demand that they do, both at the State level and the Federal level. Citizens can speak up for proper government.

No R or D's | 9:23 a.m. Aug. 24, 2009

@ reality check
Existing channels are corrupt. They won't change, until we change our voting habits. Its time to change our voting. What party would you like to form? And yes, I have worked with the existing process's, and that is why I personally know that we need to change.

@reality check | 9:32 a.m. Aug. 24, 2009

You can't get good fruit from a bad tree and you can't get anything good from the Republican or Democrat Party. There are other parties out there. Vote for them. Oh! I'm wasting my vote! That's a possibility but it's usually a dead cert that you waste your vote when you vote for Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

Independent voters are fast increasing. Don't wait for the reform of the status quo; it's not going to happen.

Thrilled To Be A D | 9:45 a.m. Aug. 24, 2009

No R's or D's at 7:43 I'll say it. I've been a Democrat since I registered to vote for the first time at the height of Watergate in 1973.

While I've voted for many Republicans over the years including Ronald Reagan in 1980, I've never once regretted my choice.

The Democrats give me something the Republicans never could, a chance to integrate my religious and political beliefs in a harmonious life style that encourages a search for truth and a willingness to wage a battle until all "success is nobleness and every gain divine"

To wage such a battle in the Republican Party would have been akin to heresy.

Responding to Mike Richards | 11:54 a.m. Aug. 24, 2009

I agree with what you have said that perhaps more of us should be running for elected office. But, as Mr Flores has pointed out, the incumbants have huge war checks to finance their campaigns. Our last State Senate race cost the winner more than $100,000. The House winner was almost as much. Between the cost and the automatic delegates the incumbants have essentially locked in their continued victories. The deck is stacked against us.

Stewart | 12:53 p.m. Aug. 24, 2009

Actually I believe that Mike Richards understands the problem far more than does Mr. Flores, and far more than most of the comments here. Richards may at times be insane, (in my opinion) but is willing to engage the problem politically and well beyond 99% of the Utah complainers.

The main problem with Utah voters is that they fail to engage the problem at the grass roots level, but instead wait for the general election and then complain about the choices. In Utah the voters have plenty of opportunity, no matter if they are democrat or republican, to replace an incumbent that is not serving his/her constituents. It starts with getting good candidates nominated, getting involved in neighborhood caucuses and being elected as a delegate.

Then you need to get to work. For those like Mr. Flores and others think an incumbent must not live in the Utah House District 61 where they removed the conservative Rep. Aaron Tilton, and for good measure they helped remove the six term conservative republican Chris Cannon.

Most of those that complain about incumbents in Utah seem to be disgruntled democrats or third party folks that never get a toe hold.

Mike Richards | 3:14 p.m. Aug. 24, 2009

@ 11:54,

Did the incumbent inherit his office or did he have to run for office, just like every other incumbent?

Money is an excuse, whether it is the lack of money or an excess of money. If you think that you need money before you ask someone for his vote, then you're no different than those who already hold office.

I'm an old man with white hair who can only see a computer screen that is highly magnified, but I've never thought that being old and blind and white-haired barred me from thinking and acting to the level that I am capable.

Those of you who are young and still able to walk up the stairs without stopping two or three times are the hope of this nation. Don't wait for money. It will never magically appear on your door-step.

@ Stewart,

You are probably right. Many would think that I am insane, but why let a little problem like that prohibit me from making a fool of myself.

People tend to sit back and wait for someone else to do everything. That's too bad; good doesn't come from inaction.

I Love Mike Richards | 7:50 p.m. Aug. 24, 2009

"Many would think that I am insane, but why let a little problem like that prohibit me from making a fool of myself. "

God bless you Mr. Richards. I'm going to print this out and put it on my wall to remind me I'm never too old to kick up some righteous dust!

AN Observer | 10:22 p.m. Aug. 24, 2009

ONLY ONE BIG problem.

voting isn't the great panacea some claim it is.

If are NOT really given a TRUE choice, then what it does really amount to?

WHich one you hate the least?

Especially when BOTH parties are going in the same direction, one just faster than the other.

You MUSt do MORE than just vote,

you MUST be ACTIVE in the political process.

EVEN IF you are called terrible names, and threatened by those who disagree with you.

AND you MUST get informed.

Parties and SPECIAL INTERESTS and others will prey on the IGNORANT.

WHICH means listen/watching/reading to ALL Sources.

AND DO NOT be afraid to speak up, ask questions and so forth.

The way to start . . . | 3:17 p.m. Aug. 25, 2009

. . . is to make sure that legislative boundaries are fairly drawn. With the far-right folk in power by such a large margin, their ability to gerrymander their opponents out of power makes it very difficult to rein them in. It's way past time to remove the ability to draw legislative boundaries from the hands of the elected representatives and put it into the hands of a neutral body.

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