Comments about ‘Charter school slotting’

does the state limit the number of students who can attend charter schools arbitrarily? It seems to me an attempt to control parents' right to choose their children's education and limit the growth of an alternative to traditional public schools.

It may be the capacity requirements by the fire marshal. I don't think it is limited arbitrarily.

There are a number of reasons, I think.

First and foremost is that the UEA doesn't have quite the stranglehold on charter schools they do on traditional public schools, and they have wielded their considerable influence to prevent charter schools from dominating the landscape--not entirely successfully, I am happy to see.

Second would be the fact that the funding for charter schools is accomplished in a very different way from traditional public schools. It would be extremely difficult from a fiscal standpoint to simply introduce large numbers of charter schools every year.

Also bear in mind that a lot of charter schools are poorly organized and end up failing. Turns out that enthusiasm alone is not enough to produce a successful school. Since the State Charter School Board has started more closely monitoring charter schools (and yes, I think they have gone too far) it has been difficult for them to keep up with even the limited number of schools that apply.

Our school, Venture Academy in Marriott-Slaterville (Ogden area), opened to the public yesterday. We are so excited to finally have our own building! I am grateful that we have some school choice.

"Also bear in mind that a lot of charter schools are poorly organized and end up failing" Actually none have failed in Utah EVER. Maybe responsible growth is working. I wish the cities and counties would learn to grow responsibly.

Close them all.

At some point, people have got to stop blaming the UEA for everything. It's an association of teachers, it's not nearly as powerful as critics like to say it is. It's just used as a tool to scare people (oooo, the UEA, made them do it). In reality the UEA is a non-entity in this state. The legislature pulls the strings whenever, however they want.

I'm sorry "teacher" but the UEA is merely the teachers' union, and like most union continues to obstruct meaningful changes to the state school system. The UEA and its cohort organization, the PTA continue to hamper constructive improvement. Furthermore, the UEA is a subsidiary organization to the NEA, one of the most left-wing organizations in the country. I wish it were otherwise, but it is not!

Why? So we can try to hammer every square peg kid into a traditional public school round hole? When have monopolies ever done any good for anyone? Every kid and family is different, and some need an educational situation better suited to their needs.

Besides, this is America. You want rigid conformity, go find some Communist country or a dictatorship somewhere.

Want to know how to recognize a truly clueless person when it comes to education in Utah?

They will tell you it is the UEA's fault.

Having worked with a legislator or two has made me realize this. They love that the public puts the blame for everything wrong with education on the shoulders of the UEA. Talk to your legislator about how much power the UEA has and they will laugh and say "none."

"Teacher" is exactly right. The UEA is a non-entity in this state.

Of course my legislator will laugh nervously and say that the most powerful lobby group in the state has no power whatsoever. Otherwise...political death wish. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Can you think of any other lobby group powerful enough to get all the public schools shut down for two days so they can have a convention?

Stumblefall should check the facts. Maybe the UEA had something to do with those two days years ago, but now those two days happen because it has become part of the Utah education culture. So few teachers attend the UEA conference that it is not a preferred convention at the Salt Palace any more. Alpine district now has fall break that has not coincided with the UEA convention as of late, nor will it coincide this year.

I think parents should have choice in education, and that is why my kids go to Deerfield Elementary as I think it is a wonderful school. If Deerfield was not meeting my children's needs then I would want to be able to send them somewhere else. However, when it comes to success in schools, research shows that nearly 70% of the variance comes from home and community while 15%comes from the classroom teacher. If we want to improve education we must get more parents involved in education and have less government control. This included Utah's own legislature.

I was one of the first students to go to this Charter School back when it opened a few years back. I started up in the fifth grade and immediately i began to notice how nice it was to have a student to teacher ratio of 20 to 1. Everyone knew each other well and you had the attention you deserved as a student. Its a great school it pushed me ahead of most kids my age. Great school! Just not a big fan of the uniforms..ugh.

...is through a tuition tax credit. This would allow privitized choice, too. Privatizing schools will lead significantly toward (1) schools that are equally or more focused on responsible missions and on responding to constituents, (2) better teachers since tenure will not be a major factor in many private schools where nimble administration may reduce bad teachers and hire those who can set meaningful tasks and rigorous curriculum, and (3) put the onus for behavior and character more squarely in the realm of the students and parents since explusion is a real option (not just shifting from one school to the next, as public schools are bound to do). As currently permitted, charters simply are not independent enough to eliminate the "entitlement" problems that come with all public schools and contribute to laziness and poor student behavior. My teaching and administrative experience (current) in public and private institutions in Utah leads me to these conclusions.

The only thing your tuition tax credit will lead to is even more segregation in Utah's schools.

It will NOT lead to better teachers. It WILL lead to more politics in the profession which is the last thing education needs. A principal that can hire and fire at will would be the biggest nightmare ever.

They are called "Management Companies". Management Companies suck funding away from the charter schools and influence charter school boards. Oh yeah, the charter school boards are made up mostly of clueless parents or other puppets for the management companies. Don't forget that the management companies also buy politicians to vote for them or turn the other cheek when the management companies do wrong.

If you want true choice, go to a private school.

Charter schools create legal segregation. That is part of the reason why the LEGISLATURE has required control over them....so that it isn't discovered how segregated these schools truly are.

Whether it's "special" schools organized specifically to segregate kids at risk or with specific disabilities, or the reality that if you're from a low SES family, a family with minority status, or have any kind of disability, you are FAR less likely to make the "lottery" into a charter school. And heaven forbid you have a "significant" disability. These schools have basically sent us back to the 1940's in segregation (separate but equal), touting smaller class sizes and "parent choice". It's the lies that I see through in the enrollment and running of these schools. The day they have to offer free and reduced school lunch (so kids of low SES can actually attend), busing so families where both parents have to work can actually have their students attend, and have enrollment that actually represents all of the minority groups in an area, public tax dollars should not be spent on them!

I'm not aware of a single charter school whose teachers are members of the UEA...thankfully.

The UEA negotiates/fights for its members...which are not students and it has hampered education in Utah.

We pulled out of a district school to a charter school to get the UEA out of educating my children.

"WRONG ! | 8:17 p.m. Aug. 21, 2009
"Also bear in mind that a lot of charter schools are poorly organized and end up failing" Actually none have failed in Utah EVER. Maybe responsible growth is working. I wish the cities and counties would learn to grow responsibly. "

Actually there has been at least one. Not sure when it was closed, but it happened when only the Districts opened up Charters. None have closed since the State took on the Chartering responsibility.

Dissolutioned,

You are making some wild unfounded accusations, which are indeed flat out lies. The state, not charter schools controls the lottery making it impossible for the school to do as you insinuate.

I have had students that while they were in a traditional district school WERE segregated. They were shoved in cluster groups away from the regular education population. Not so in Charter schools. We put that kid with an aide for most of the day and IN THE REGULAR classroom. Charter schools are the LEAST segregated educational community in the state.

I have had kids of millionaires sitting next to ESL students in poverty. I have had gifted and talented sitting next to special needs kids. I have had more non-white kids in my classrooms than I did in the Districts. Charters BROKE the segregation that is caused by WHERE YOU LIVE, and they also brought the special needs kids into the classroom.

Dissolutioned, you are a fraud. Why do Charters scare you?

The State came in and took over the Charter School in Moab. This was the start of only State Charters and no more District Charters. The Moab school was so poorly run that the administrator and some of the founding parents were charged with embezzlement, I don't know what happened after they were charged.

There are at least two Charters that were closed in the Jordan School District boundaries, one was that "USC" school that the director/founder/funder is being sued for not paying teachers, this was the school that was trying to change to a private super sports school. The other was just a regular K-8 school that had students returning to their district schools because the school was poorly run and the parents felt more "out of the loop" and dismissed then we ever felt in the district schools. I know I was one of those parents.