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Sunstone Symposium: Why Emma stayed in Nauvoo

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new perspective | 1:03 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Thank you for the article. It is interesting to read a professional's view of Emma's life and decisions. I have always admired her and in the 1990's, the church had a very nice article about her in the Ensign magazine. Emma, to me, represents the amazing strength of early pioneers and for the LDS, the tremendous courage and faith of early members. She is a great lady.

Anonymous | 6:16 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

I thought would be a good article until I noticed it came from the Sunstone Symposium. Whoops, I just offended "all the learned."

She gave so much | 7:47 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

First of all she did NOT get along with Brigham. Property ownership was kind of odd. Joseph owned some property in the name of the church. Brigham thought that it belonged to the church, and should have been used to fund the trek west. Emma thought it belonged to her to support her children. That she didn't like polygamy goes without saying.

She gave so much to what she believed. All the death. All those moves. All the violence. The constant movement, and her husband's responsibility. It makes perfect sense for her to want to stay where she was. She stopped worrying about the church and started worrying about her kids. And I don't think that there is anything wrong about that. Heck, she even took care of Joseph's mother until she died!

She was a strong, strong woman who was pushed to her very edge. I certainly wouldn't have been able to accomplish what she, Brigham, or Joseph accomplished. I hope she had a happy reunion with Joseph on the other side.

Comments continue below

Thanks | 7:54 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

I enjoyed dropping the stereotype of Emma and thinking of her as any wife and mother I know. I think of my own wife. She is a great woman. But after all the "life" I drag her through, she could easily react as Emma did if I were murdered. This gives me new respect for the woman who stood with Joseph through some pretty amazing times and unusual experiences. Thank you. I always heard Emma was "an elect lady" but subconsciously I refused to believe it. Now I do believe it. In fact I like her a great deal more now. Great job.

YtxPat | 7:58 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Seems like this might be some explaination but what about loss of faith. If she had moved 18 times, what was one more to stay with the ones you always had been with. To stay with the leadership of the Church. Education and refinement are poor reasons not to follow the teachings and preachings of your own late husband. I grant you that she went through many trials, many which we have probably never been told. In my opinion, if she was great, it was for only 17 years. Other than that, she was no greater than any other pioneer woman and mother, except she lost her faith and failed to follow the Prophet.

Marriage | 8:23 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

The article about Emma was very good, I can easily see that she would shy away from adding more stress to her turbulent life by going west. What I would really like to see the author address (maybe in the future?) is why she would marry someone of the caliber of Major Lewis Bidamon. He was married 4 times, at least once divorced and fathered 2 children by two different women while in these marriages. He seemed to try any get rich quick scheme that came along and thought Joseph Smith was not a prophet. What factors in her personality or situation led her to this marriage?

Why Wouldn't She Stay? | 8:33 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Could it be that she realized it was all a fraud and now that her philandering husband was dead, there was no purpose to follow Brigham Young and more of the same? Joseph Smith's own yonger brother left the church and called it a fraud too, so why not Emma?

JJ | 8:36 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Emma did give so much to the church and Brigham young took it from her because men did things like that in those day. BY was obviously greedy, and It was apparent with his practice of polygamy.

God only knows!!!! | 9:12 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

God only knows what happen to Emmas choice and her behavior... She did deal alot with the church and stood by Joseph til the end...i still beleive she still has her FAITH IN THE CHURCH...maybe she didnt want to leave, because its all of joseph memmories was still there and didnt want to leave him ..Only heaveny father knows and let him be the judge of that... let them both rest together in peace....no need to drag that in the mud ....we have enough problems now....

The Elect Lady | 9:22 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

2John 1:1 THE Elder(John)unto the elect(chosen by God)lady(cyria)and her children.
This phrase is describing a church in asia. Israel in the OT(Isaiah 52:2)in the N.T.(Revelation 21:9)
The Elder is a title of loving respect by which the churches in asia knew the Apostle John.
Children,(members) who have known the truth(Gospel)
This is not about Emma,but true churches of Christ.

Response | 9:27 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Emma had planned to go to Salt Lake City on the train to see the church officials and her relatives that had gone there i.e. Hyrum's wife and family. Brigham Young died before she could make the trip. Many believe that much of the discord between the two of them would have dissolved. For those of you, who on this site,who seem to revel in anger between two individuals, please remember that Emma was not an angry woman usually and Brigham was not an angry or "greedy" man ( yes, he was exceedingly thrifty). At least show respect for the dead by not putting the two in a war with each other. After what both of them endured, the best thing that could have happened was a reunion to clear the misunderstandings. I believe that has happened on the other side with Joseph and the Savior standing by on both of their sides.

Re: 9:27 RESPONSE | 10:29 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Just because you are a Brighamite doesn't make you an expert on this matter, or Emma Smith feelings. I don't agree with what you have written WHATSOEVER, and I read history too. Oh, by the way, we don't follow Brigham Youngs teachings any longer. He is not the prophet of today thank-you-very-much! I would have never followed after him back in the 1800's if I had my way about it. Free will is better.

Janet

ewt | 10:50 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Interesting comments from people who, regardless of their religious affiliation, probably have been taught not to judge others...

I believe Emma was quoted as saying that she would never cross the Mississippi River again after Joseph got out of Liberty jail. If true, that's all the explanation I need.

Not Asleep | 11:27 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009

"One of the poorest things we do is judge people from previous generations by standards from our current generation." massacred paraphrasing of Will Durant quote

We are poor enough judges of people right in front of us what makes us think that we can judge well people from a completely different time period.

Someone once said that Hell is nothing compared to what we put ourselves and others through down here.

If we judge by cold hard facts (i.e., Emma not coming to Utah with the rest of the saints), then Joseph's mother must be judged along with Emma. One can list the allowances given to Joseph's mother for not coming but does the list suddenly shorten for Emma?

I am going to stick with the Lord's words: an elect lady

Just a thought | 12:11 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Poor Emma | 9:45 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009
Child, leave the debate to the adults since you obviously can't understand the issue. You just go on outside and play.

Re: 9:27 RESPONSE | 10:29 a.m
The saints had their choice of whether to follow the Prophet west or to stay, just like Emma did. I'd like to think that is "free will". I'm not sure what makes YOU the expert on this matter. I'm sure you'd like to think you have all the answers but you don't know any better than the rest of us. Although, your snide name calling and remarks only show how ignorant you really are.

Watchman | 12:28 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

How can anyone criticise her after what she endured for the gospel.

Emma was indeed an elect and choice woman. Her mission was accomplished at Joseph's martyrdom.

In an interview with her sons a few months before she died, Emma bore testimony “My belief is that the Book of Mormon is of divine authenticity. I have not the slightest doubt of it. …

Emma lived almost thirty-five years after the martyrdom of her Prophet-husband. According to Alexander, Emma seemed to sink away, but then she raised up and stretched out her hand, calling, “Joseph! Joseph!” Falling back on Alexander’s arm, she clasped her hands on her bosom, and her spirit was gone. Sister Elizabeth Revel, Emma’s nurse, explained that a few days earlier Emma had told her that Joseph came to her in a vision and said, “Emma, come with me, it is time for you to come with me.”

Joseph and Emma walked side by side through great tribulation and will dwell together in Celestial Glory. Those who honor Joseph will also honor Emma

Bev | 12:49 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Watchman's comment is good, but commenter "Just A THOUGHT" needs to get a life and do some major repenting! Leave the young person alone.

Polygamy | 1:01 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Duh! Emma hated polygamy-that is why she stayed.

Double Thinking | 1:28 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

If Emma hated polygamy then I assume those other so called women who were supposedly, and claim, to be sealed to Joseph, will not live together in the eternities with EMMA and Joseph--now will they? Emma didn't like those women here and she sure as heck won't like them there. I doubt she will ever change her mind to benefit any of you leaving here on this earth today. Emma had her mind made up when she left the church, so lets not change it for her now. She is and was HER OWN PERSON.

Ralph | 3:19 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

I find it interesting, humorous, and pitiful that so many people are willing to speak for Emma.

Lisa | 3:57 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Old Ralph, Go be a bawl baby by your lonesome self. Everyone has a right to their opinion about Emma. She was a great WOMAN and endured more than her fair share of earthly trials and pain.

JAYEG | 4:00 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Emma believed, as many others did, that her deceased husband intended for his eldest son to assume leadership when he died, and remained in Nauvoo with many others who chose not to swear their allegiance to Brigham Young and follow him westward. In June of 1852, the "New Organization of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" held its first conference, and although

Although his eldest was too young when his father died to assume leadership, and refused to take leadership of the New Organization of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1852... he did organize the RLDS Church in 1860, and led the Church for 54 years.

JAYEG | 4:04 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Re: just a thought

Er you treat another teenager to your mockery...please bear in mind that the founder of your faith was 3 years younger than than this teenager, when he claimed to receive a vision from God, and Jesus the Christ.

Or perhaps you think HE should have also gone out to play and leave discussions to adults?

couldn't care less | 4:22 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

I couldn't care less why she stayed, because I choose not to judge her, and no one else has the right to. As for why would she later marry someone who seems so obviously to us, with the ability to look on it as history, to be an idiot... maybe she truly believed in repentance the ability of anyone to change for the better. Doesn't matter why. She is the one who stands in answer for her choices, as we each are for our own. I have great respect for her. And no one can tear her down in my view. Anyone who put up with the repeated violations on her as a daughter of God, as she did, deserves nothing less.

LM | 4:25 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

RE: JAYEG, 4:04 p.m. Well said my friend.

RE: Emma | 4:28 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

If you read Emma story she is maybe an example of a Mormon who is actually a Christian. The RLDS church like the "World wide Church of God"actualy de-evolved into a Bible Beleiving Christian Church,when Armstrong the leasder died,The RLDS has de-evolved basically into a Christian Church today.
AT one time both churches were cults,maybe not today,an Emma was there.

Nothing but the Facts | 4:35 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

I have to agree with YtxPat. Everybody speculates and injects their own emotions and thoughts into their interpretation of what Emma was like and why she did what she did. But the FACTS cannot be ignored.

The FACTS are that Emma Smith not only failed to follow Brigham Young out West, she also LEFT the Church Brigham Young led. Or at least that is one way to see it. The other way to see it is that she never left "the Church" that she believed was true. Instead, she refused to leave the "true Church" and follow Brigham whom she believed to be a false prophet and NOT the true leader of the true church!

What I hate most, though, is how quotes from Emma are taken out of context. People quote her testimony of the Book of Mormon in her old age, and think that means Emma is testifying that TODAY'S LDS Church is true! Nothing could be further from the truth!

Based on the FACTS, nobody can possibly argue that Emma believed in or had a testimony of the Church that Brigham Young led. How that makes her "an elect lady" is puzzling!

Enduring excuse | 4:43 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Much was suffered by that elect lady, but does that excuse her of not enduring to the end?

Emmanite | 5:07 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

I wished Brighamites would get a life!

SFC RET DENNIS | 5:14 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

I find it odd that people try to talk about what Emma felt, thought and so forth, the only person who truly know what she felt and believe, be sides God, is Emma herself, we can say what we thought of her but only she know her own mind, and shame on anyone who tries to clam she lost her faith, or whatever, here is a great lady and that speaks volumes about anyone who stood out in history and did accomplished and endured what she did.

Truly an Elect Lady | 5:15 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

The thing most of you seem to ignore is that these people were human.

There were disagreements between Emma and Brigham because she felt Joseph's papers belonged to her and she protected them over and over again. Brigham Young believed the papers belonged to the Church. Both were correct to some degree. Whether or not that added to her staying in Nauvoo, we won't know until later.

Emma did wonderful, marvelous things. She stayed by Joseph through so many things. Why didn't she leave Nauvoo with the other saints as did Mary Fielding Smith, Hyrum's wife? We don't know. It isn't our place to question her testimony or her reasons for staying.

I think she's an amazing woman, and I'm grateful for the wonderful companion she was to Joseph and for all she did. She truly is an Elect Lady.

Save up all your questions for when you get to the other side of the veil. Ask her then. Hopefully she'll have a Fireside to address all the questions!

An Observer | 5:30 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Being called an "elect" lady does give her a free pass to do whatever she wants.

Thes cripture and GOd also admonish us to endure to the end.

I do not know if she had any problem with Brigham Young,

or she just believed her OWN son should have replaced Joseph Smith.

I believe there are questions, but we will have wait for the answers.

HOwever her choices affected generations of her family and influenced many others over the years.

That's good enough for me | 5:50 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

“A revelation I give unto you concerning my will; and if thou art faithful and walk in the paths of virtue before me, I will preserve thy life, and thou shalt receive an inheritance in Zion.
Behold, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou art an elect lady, whom I have called.”
D&C 25:2-3

If the Lord referred to her as an “elect lady” that is good enough for me. He truly did see Emma for who she was.

Henry Drummond | 5:56 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

It should be noted that Joseph Smith's mother Lucy also stayed in Nauvoo with Emma caring for her. Its unfortunate that nobody seems to remember that. I think attitudes have softened towards her and I'm glad the D-News saw fit to publish this defense and find it all the more remarkable because it came from Sunstone.

Anonymous | 6:14 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Emma left the church like any other apostate. I am not sure why she is currently revered in the church.

Re: thats good enough for me | 6:41 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

D&C 25:2-3 is basically Joseph mis-using or mis- understanding, for his personal use (2John 1:1,)*The Elect Lady ,not an elect lady.
*Greek translation, tois ecclesia cyria,(the church in asia)

Anonymous | 8:24 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

There were many factors contributing to Emma's decision not to move west, and yes, she'd had an extremely difficult life until that point, which no doubt helped influence her decision.

But it's also not our place to sort out what her final judgement should be. We don't have all the facts, we don't know precisely what was in her heart and mind, and we don't know what sort of repenting or changing she did in her lifetime or in her next life. Leave the judgements about who was right and who was wrong in this situation to God. He's the only one who knows absolutely everything and can make the wisest judgement based on those circumstances.

Deeanna | 8:45 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Hey people, why not put a lid on all this mouth stretching going on here, and quit judging this good woman (EMMA). And to all of you who are negative towards Emma, you folks had better try to ask for forgiveness for all your deep seeded hatred for someone you never knew. I have never read so much BARKING & GROWLING in all my life. This is all just a carry over from the 1800's and it need to stop. Emma was a gem of a woman, so live with it haters. Quit being jealous of her.

Anonymous | 11:41 p.m. Aug. 14, 2009

Watchman's post and the article brought tears to my eyes because I am saddened that after sacrificing so much she had such deep sorrow. I also learned that she always went to her room upstairs, sat in a rocking chair and wept every evening. To think that Joseph came to retrieve her at death gives me great comfort. I also agree with Henry Drummand. I believe that she was also reluctant to take the aging mother of the prophet across the plains along with her children. That whole thing seems daunting to me. A widow. Really, I feel such compassion for her. I'm sure she will be a woman to envy and admire in the hereafter.

Truth Is Truth | 12:42 a.m. Aug. 15, 2009

"Why Wouldn't She Stay? | 8:33 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009
Could it be that she realized it was all a fraud and now that her philandering husband was dead, there was no purpose to follow Brigham Young and more of the same? Joseph Smith's own yonger brother left the church and called it a fraud too, so why not Emma?"

Why wouldn't she think the LDS faith was a fraud?

Because it isn't.

When you know, you know....

Anonymous | 12:45 a.m. Aug. 15, 2009

"The Elect Lady | 9:22 a.m. Aug. 14, 2009
2John 1:1 THE Elder(John)unto the elect(chosen by God)lady(cyria)and her children.
This phrase is describing a church in asia. Israel in the OT(Isaiah 52:2)in the N.T.(Revelation 21:9)
The Elder is a title of loving respect by which the churches in asia knew the Apostle John.
Children,(members) who have known the truth(Gospel)
This is not about Emma,but true churches of Christ."

You know, I think I've read some of your comments on other religious DesNews articles before.

I didn't understand any of them either....

A Believer | 1:07 a.m. Aug. 15, 2009

As a fellow-believer in Jesus Christ, I do not wish to cast dispersions upon Sister Emma Smith, yet I cannot help wonder why she acted the way she did and what her eternal fate may be. Only God knows, of course, but we may benefit by studying her situation and learning from her experience. On the one hand, God's prophet, Brigham Young, directed the body of the church to the west and invited Emma to follow. On the other hand, we do not know whether God had given her some special mission to remain. It is disquieting to learn of the sadness in her eyes and the trials she suffered with the infidelity of her second husband. I hope she has been able to make amends with Brigham Young and align herself once again with God's true church.

To: Henry Drummond | 7:01 a.m. Aug. 15, 2009

"It should be noted that Joseph Smith's mother Lucy also stayed in Nauvoo with Emma caring for her. Its unfortunate that nobody seems to remember that."

The difference in the two cases is, though, that Lucy Mack Smith had intended all along to go west with the rest of the saints, but she was too ill and frail to go in the end. For her health, she and her extended family decided it was best for her to stay with the rest of her family. One of her daughters was married to a non-member and was staying, Emma was very bitter against Brigham Young at that point and was not only staying but actively trying to convince the rest of the extended family to stay as well, and another daughter was also staying for various reasons. William had left the church again - his membership had been off and on since Kirtland - and was also staying. Since he was her sole surviving son, she wanted to stay near him.

There is absolutely no evidence that she left the church, as she'd been a strong supporter of Brigham Young and of the move west.

To: Truth is Truth | 8:42 a.m. Aug. 15, 2009

Re: "When you know, you know.... "

We can agree on one thing. Just like Emma, I KNOW the LDS church is a fraud.

Anonymous | 8:50 a.m. Aug. 15, 2009

Emma obviously had a weak testimony. She made a very poor choice ang should not be glorified in the churcu. She left and we moved on.

Ralph | 9:21 a.m. Aug. 15, 2009

Emma quit the church because she knew it and her husband were false, she stayed with her husband until his death because she loved him and was married to him and had little other opportunity.

Stand by your man* | 10:14 a.m. Aug. 15, 2009

I agree with others. Emma Hale Smith left the church because she could not live the lie any longer. She tried her best though to protect her Joseph. It must have been a darn hard life for this poor woman.

Moving Foward | 10:57 a.m. Aug. 15, 2009

Emma left the church, the church did not leave her. She is an apostate just like those who leave the church in the modern day. The church did fine without her so it was no big loss.

BearLake Guy | 11:58 a.m. Aug. 15, 2009

Emma Hale Smith is and was an elect lady. She endured more than I can imagine in this life. To my knowledge she never denied the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ or her testimony of the B of M. She testified that Joseph was a Prophet of God and she never backed away from that testimony. I have not doubt that Emma and Joseph are reunited and she will be denied no blessing in the eternities. I love both Joseph and Emma and I have a great respect for their sacrifices on my behalf. I named my two youngest after Emma and Joseph Smith, I hope they will be as true to God as Emma and Joseph were in their lives.

not a member | 11:58 a.m. Aug. 15, 2009

Why do some of you LDS come down on Emma Smith who was indeed a virtuous woman in her day, when there are people like my LDS neighbor who is very active in the LDS church, and who is divorced, but she shacks up with a man all week long then goes to church on Sunday. Am I missing something here or what?

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