Comments about ‘Budget cuts are squeezing classrooms’

Thank goodness class size does not determine student achievement! The predominant research over several decades shows that students need to learn to read and do math in early grades (K-3) in small groups of students who are at the same instructional level. If students are given this opportunity, through the use of additional teachers or well-trained instructional aides or even volunteers, the results are equal to small homeroom class sizes (which simply allow the teacher to break the students up into these small groups).

The actual homeroom class size can be quite large and still be very effective as long as students get the skills training (reading and math) in smaller groups which are limited to children of the same instructional level, allowing for efficient use of the time spent learning. This is called homogeneous grouping and is a must for students learning to read and do math efficiently.

Our school has had excellent results using this model over the past 6 years. 100% of our 5th graders passed the state language arts exam this year (this group was our first kindergarten class). The 5th grade homeroom class size is actually 30-31.

Yes they can achieve in large classrooms but not as much as if they were in smaller classes.

It's all about crowd control and time for the teacher to get the work done.

I just got my rolls for my new classes in the fall.

I'm averaging 32 seventh graders per class.

That's a lot of hormones going around.

It should be about 24 to get the ideal class size.

I wish it were so easy - but student achievement has not been shown to correlate to small class sizes EXCEPT in grades K-3 with regard to learning to read and do basic math.

MANY large-scale studies have been done over decades and have not proven that class size correlates to student achievement in upper grades.

Teachers who are taught to teach effectively can teach 35 students just as effectively as they can teach 20. In China, the class sizes are often 40-45 and the student achievement is amazing!

Our class sizes are 30-32 in the upper elementary and Jr. High grades and our student achievement is incredible (100% of 9th graders passed the state DWA, over 90% of students passed all other state language arts tests)AND students are happy (survey data) and love being challenged, AND parent satisfaction was 99% this year!

We have been challenging the class size issue for the past few years, increasing our class sizes incrementally to determine if achievement or satisfaction suffers. Our scores are highest this year and our classes the largest so far.

Carolyn Sharette
Director
American Preparatory Academy of Draper

Teachers who have been taught how to teach to the different learning styles, audio, visual, kinesthetic-tactile are more effective teachers. They are teaching to the the pupils learning strength. Is this exhaustive, yes, it is rewarding, absolutely.

The teacher determines to the largest extent whether a student will learn. That said, students need to triple their efforts. Too much going home and putting the backpack down and picking it up the next morning. No teacher can help students learn to their maxim with that type of an attitute.

Years ago when I started to teach I asked my students what their parents did when they got home? Those parents who came home, watched TV, just sat around and shot the bull with friends, or drank beer, had children who struggled in school. Those parents who came home, talked with their children about school, read the newspaper and magazines had children in my class who did very well in class. I did this same line of questioning for 8 straight years. The results were always the same.

It is about time the teachers earned their pay.

Great now we have some charter school lady touting the achievements of China?

Have you ever been to China? Not the system you'd like to patten your school after.

For me I can handle as many kids in my classroom and the legislature deems fit to stuff in there.

The problem comes when I have to grade their work. If I have over 200 kids at a time, it means I will be DONATING a lot of my spare time to grade the work they are doing. There is no way possible to do it during my contract hours.

I believe her intent was to show that China has large class sizes and the students still appear to achieve. She didn't say "all teachers should flog the students if they act out or don't achieve."

I believe student achievement can be improved with increased parental involvement, show teachers how to lead instead of manage (which means teachers need to learn how to create a powerful "teacher-student' relationship, shape peer influence and teach to the way brain learns.

I agree with the comments made in the article referencing a large body of data that supports the notion of teacher skills having more influence in the overall success of the class/student, than class size. You can have classes of 17, but if the teacher is ineffective, it really doesn't matter how small the class is. An effective teacher is going to be effective regardless of class size. I've been a teacher for a long time, and I would agree, sadly, that there are many ineffective teachers in too many classrooms. As a society, how do we correct this? I've worked with several student teachers throughout the years. Some have come from universities with excellent preservice training, and some have not. Certainly, that's one place to start.
I like the idea of teachers having to pass the Praxis exam, or some other test to establish a minimum proficiency requirement. But there is still a long way to go in our country to improve education. I'd like to see the critics like "oldman" step up to the plate with practical solutions to solving our problems instead of just offering the same criticisms.

If we need to make cuts in the budget, then let's get rid of some of the administrators. We can reduce class size and hire more teachers if we eliminate some of the levels in administration.

Thanks for the infomercial Ms. Sharette.

Would you please share with us the socioeconomic breakdown of your students and their parents. Please tell us how many require special accommodations or how many are special education students. Please tell us how many are ELL students. Please tell us if you have ever refused entrance to any student to your school, or where your students who cannot handle the rigors of your academy go when they are dismissed.

Once I can compare apples to apples then I will more fully appreciate your accomplishments.

I eagerly await your reply.

The Praxis is the biggest joke ever forced onto public education.

I know one of the best teachers in our district didn't pass the praxis essay portion. She is one of the best teachers out there with student achievement higher than almost every teacher in the district.

So this teacher won't be allowed to teach because some essay grader didn't feel she included the right stuff in her essays?

The Praxis has no way to determine quality of teaching.

It is a pathetic attempt by some unknowing government agency to say they are improving education.

The previous teacher posted the exact truth. If I have so many kids in my classroom, I can't grade all of their work with as much detail as I need to. There aren't enough hours in the day.

I'm laughing with the free ad for Sharette post. I'd have to agree with everything that person wrote. I bet there aren't many non english speakers at good old Charter of Draper. China? Wow!

I hate to "beat an old horse" BUT - why do we have to keep paying to educate all the illegals? Why doesn't the UEA and/or the NEA step up to the plate on this issue? Send the illegals home and reduce class sizes. Added bonus: send a message to the students that laws are made to be obeyed NOT IGNORED!

LIke the UEA has any power to say who will be taught. Talk to your federal government. They are the only ones that can change that one.

If a person in their right mind (especially in education) can't see the difference between teaching 40-45 students in their classroom versus 10-15 students less, I don't know much what to say about the intelligence and common sense of that person. Also, for secondary teachers, overall class loads must also be a legitimate concern. When some teachers have 250 students, sometimes in just six classes or in most cases seven classes, this is still a huge load for that teacher and teaching effectiveness decreases. There is no way that this teacher can reach all these students effectively let alone give an honest evaluation on their homework, research papers, etc.

I wonder what the ethnic diversity situation in China. Do they have droves of students from different backgrounds? What percentage of their students don't speak Chinese? Just curious, I don't think comparing our public education system to theirs is a great comparison as we choose to educate all our citizens, even illegal aliens. Also, comparing public education to private education has similar fallacies.

I guess all the educator haters like old man up there can start in now.

the illegals we would actually save and move on but no everyone and their dog is here...so quit whinning because it ain't going to work anyways!!

Who cares!

Kuddos to the American Preparatory Academy of Draper. A think an old saying applies here - "those who say it can't be done need to get out of the way of those who are doing it."