Comments about ‘Despite recession, downtown Salt Lake is rising’

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Published: Saturday, July 25 2009 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Talk about an investment in the future, I wouldn't be surprised if City Creek is found flourishing and bustling through the Millennium.


Watchman, you claim to "sustain the bretheren because they hold the keys." However, your criticism of their actions indicates otherwise. If one sustains them as being inspired, then criticizing them is being critical of their inspiration from above.

Your quote from Ezekiel is the Lord being critical, not members of the House of Israel being critical of their leaders who they are obligated to sustain. The Church is not a democracy, like secular society. Authority is not bottom-up, but top-down. In a democracy transparency and accountability come from the people. Not so in the Church, especially if we sincerely believe that God is running the show.

The role of a 'watchman' is more appropriate in relation to those from whom accountability is appropriate, such as elected officials. Church officials are accountable to God, who has called them.

Just another thought

This is just another response to Watchman. I mean no offense and hope this helps a little. Think of the parable of the talents. (Matthew 25) Rather than keeping the church's resources to itself, it uses these resources to help others. The church helps those abroad and it's ok to help the area locally.

Tab L. Uno

It's too bad that downtown couldn't have had this attention upfront instead as an afterthought with Gateway Mall (the Gateway for the rich) having had to be developed. At least Down Town Salt Lake City won't die now.

Believes the Brethren

It sounds like Watchman is skeptical that only non-tithing money is being used. Of course he can believe the Brethren are liars, but that would put him on shaky ground, no wouldn't it?


Get over yourself Watchman. Your self-righteous indignation is exhausting.

Enhance downtown Salt Lake

Watchman also doesn't understand - or perhaps care - that it is in the church's interest to keep the downtown area vital. The church has demonstrated through its history that it will make the right moves in planning its interests.

No You Don't

Watchman clearly doesn't understand what "sustain" means. Also, by the title of tour comment and the quotation of Ezekial I think you may be overstepping your bounds. I wouldn't set myself up as a prophet if I were you, and especially by calling out the real prophets and apostles. Funny that you think you know better than them.

I would say you are approaching dangerous ground, but you are already there. Pride was the word of the day for that comment, or ignorance, both of which are equally ominous!

I have faith that revelation is leading the GA's decision and they are deciding to invest in the downtown area (one if the biggest tourism, and therefore missionary work, centers in the world). Seems like a good idea to have a hand in crafting the environment that you share the gospel in while also bribing in people to share the gospel with!

Humble yourself and don't make torself a false prophet who kicks against the pricks!

Bringing, not bribing

My iPhone did autocorrect. I mean bringing in people for missionary work.


Be wise enough to acknowledge that the GA's of the faith were mostly successful business men and they probably know FAR more than you people about it. Also, they het a thing called REVELATION which guides their choices.

Dissent amongst the members. Hasn't changed much since Joseph's day. How dId I turn out for them?

Good thoughts

For the Brethern to approve large building projects when construction materials and workers can be had for less than 1/2 of what they were 1-2 years ago appears to be extrordinary wisdom.

Additionally, to convert cash in the bank into developed real estate at this point in time is something more of us should consider. Why? Real estate is on sale; banks are failing left and right (another 30 bank equivalents failed yesterday); and money is going to devalue big time with the governments drunken spending.

Best thing in the world that you could be doing right now with your money is exactly what the church is doing.


Most investors don't beat on faith but on sound economics. What I would be inter4ested seeing is how many tenets have sign leases.

Good thought, inflation is -2.13 for this year. Declining demand means people and companies aren't spending. The business of business is business. With high commerical real estate defaults who would you build? You can wait and buy a building for cents on your dollars.

Look at the great PR the LDS Church got buying SLC's main thoroughfare? Like think has killed many a business and the LDS Church doesn't cultivate innovation.


God's revelation includes business investments? Can anyone tell me the source of any church wealth that was not a tithing or donation originally? Construction materials are at an all time high and the properties were bought during a boom.


One looking from the outside might think, "this is the worst time to investing in these ventures". My views reflect what I see is the true inspiration of this project. Could there be a better time for this type of stimulus? Ten years ago, if I could glance into our day today, I'd say now is the most critical time to revitalize Salt Lake, Provide thousands of jobs in a struggling construction industry, and reap the benefits with of all the infrastructure in 2 years and on, when this economy turns the corner for the better. This will be a huge asset for the church both monetarily and aesthetically.

2 Birds with 1 stone. Stimulate economically, Beautify, and turn a profit

Top tourist attraction?

Looks like Temple Square is fighting it out with Cabela's:

Forbes magazine:
In spite of a struggling economy, 5 million visitors made Temple Square the 16th most visited site in the United States....

KSL News (2006):
Officials for the Utah store say close to 5-million people have walked into their store. The number of visitors to the store could possibly pass those of Temple Square, making Cabelas the number one tourism attraction in the state.


Isaiah 2 “O House of Jacob, come ye and let us walk in the light of the Lord; yea, come, for ye have all gone astray, every one to his wicked ways. Therefore, O Lord, thou hast forsaken thy people, the House of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and hearken unto the soothsayers like the Philistines and they please themselves in the children of strangers. Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures.

From the Church Web site on city creek

“This is something entirely new. Only now can you say Salt Lake City and cosmopolitan in the same sentence. Life at City Creek places you within easy walking distance of all the finest that Salt Lake has to offer; from symphony and theatre to fine dining, shopping and deluxe office space. City Creek is where friends meet friends, where work meets play, where the past meets the future, and WHERE SALT LAKE MEETS NEW YORK.

Will "affordable housing" be part of the City Creek Center project? No

What will be the mix of the retail stores? "In the upper moderate to better range."

Thumbs Up

This is a good thing. You can bet that if downtown was decaying (like many urban centers around the nation) the church would be singled out as not doing enough to help the community of which they are a part. As Elder Holland put it once, "Even in the Golden Age, someone undoubtedly complained that everything was too yellow."

Paper tiger

And after the construction cranes have left, you will once again be able to hear the crickets chirping on Main Street.


All organizations of size receive from time to time donations from a number of different sources, such as bequeaths, and so on. That money is not tithing money. Also, interests who build community projects as well as commercial projects raise capital from lenders specifically to build and develop. That money is not tithing money and is repaid over time in rent, appreciation, and so on. This makes the building of a chapel or temple different from a commercial venture in that the latter is usually referred to as an investment.

As a side, President Hinckley made a comment several years ago stating something to the effect that if the economy weakens it was then unknown to the Church how (the less tithes because of less income) would affect the building of temples and so forth across the Church. It only makes sense that if there are less tithes that the Church will need to cut back on chapels, temples, etc because the Church ascribes to provident living, meaning you make the best of what you already have and don't go into debt.

To Watchman

As sound as your comments and concerns may be, you're preaching to the wrong crowd here. The General Authorities could burn a pile of cash in the middle of Temple Square and people here would still write about how wonderful and inspired they are and how questioning them in the slightest is apostasy.

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