Comments about ‘Herbert says education 'top priority' for economy’

Maybe you should set the example, Herbie, and go back to school yourself. Unbelievable that our next governor doesn't even have a degree.

The real problem with the education in our state is that no one goes to school and no one does anything about it. Ride Trax or go to Gateway on a school day and you see more kids than adults.

Once again all rhetoric.

Step up and take care of teachers!!

Until they start cleaning house at the top of the education system where people stay for 35-40 years and draw six figure salaries teachers will continue to work for pennies.

The truth is - it's not rhetoric. Just because a guy says he supports education doesn't mean he's not genuine. All of Governor Herbert's kids graduated from public schools and he and Huntsman have put more money into public education than any other administration in the history of Utah.

He puts his money where his mouth is - so, by pure definition, it can't be "rhetoric" when he speaks of his support for education.

Usually, a politician's priority is those policy issues that he spends time on. Since this is one of Gov. Herbert's first public annoucements on policy, hopefully it truly represents his value system and belief system. As a skeptic, Gov. Herbert's initial public statements are a hopeful sign because the unique connection between education and economic development in today's global markets cannot be more true.

The proof is in the pudding. Time will tell if Governor Herbert means what he says. When Utah starts spending as much of the state budget on education as we did even a couple decades ago and expends at least as much per child as Arkansas or Mississippi, then we will know education is becoming a priority.

FYI has a good point, when will the URS or the legislature put an end to the 40 - 45 year career educators, locked in their positions of power, earning top dollar for doing the same old thing? That gravy train needs to stop and unload passengers.

Hurrah for Herbert.

Raise standards, and raise pay for teachers, especially math and science. Make it easier for retired engineers and scientists to become teachers. Streamline the process, and we will get a body of near top notch teachers in these fields.

Math education is hollowed out, it’s not what it should be anymore. The education community has dropped the ball, and when these things are pointed out to them, instead of wanting to improve they defensively deny that a problem even exists.

We now teach subjects at earlier ages, but we teach them in a more shallow way.

We are fooling ourselves.

Specifically what can be done?

Restore a thorough studying of arithmetic in elementary, this helps to prepare the mind for higher math. Let’s begin Singapore math in addition.

Lets restore the option of proof based geometry, where there are challenging problems, not just the dumb easy problems that there are now.

Let’s restore the practice of students doing most proofs of the formulas and theorems that they learn, in trigonometry and algebra. Lets restore algebra so that students become able word problem solvers.

Let’s teach math well, teaching early is not a substitute.

Yes, let's see if he bucks the conservative crowd and follows through on boosting education.

Here are my three suggestions for the new Governor:

--To raise more money, reinstitute some or all of the sales tax on food. Is a relatively painless way to bring in more money for education.

--Don't forget the kids who may not thrive in the traditional classroom setting. They are USU, UVU, BYU-bound. Let's strengthen and expand the pathways and programs that lead to vocational skills. Let's even term them 'college' pathways.

Conservatives absolutely hate public education. They hate the fact that they can't pray in schools, that evolution is taught, and that they can't use public dollars to fund religious education. Let's see if he'll defy his conservative colleagues on the Hill and put his money where his mouth is. Watch his feet, not his mouth!

Herbert is right, but his reasoning is shallow.

He supports education because it is the pathway to riches.

There are those who see education as an end in itself, who support riches because it allows for people to become educated.

Lots of rhetoric...

Math is not "hollowed out" nor is it "shallow."

The math state core has been overhauled. It is more difficult than it was in years past.

Nice jump on the bandwagon of Singapore math. Catchy phrase but I doubt you even know of what you speak. One problem with that concept is the culture difference. When our culture begins to place more emphasis on being in the classroom and less emphasis on "school choice" and not holding students/parents accountable for the many reasons for absenteeism, we might see change. When our culture quits complaining about the amount of homework given to students and quits demanding that "weekends are for family time, not homework," we might get somewhere.

High school students in Iron County and Washington County must have 28 credits to receive a diploma from their local high schools. That is 7 credits per year...and there are only 8 classes offered on a full schedule. Not much room to add. Take into account that many opt for "released time" and there is no room for failure.

Many seniors, who are on track for graduation, desire to take less than a full load during their senior year for various reasons. That will have to stop--Iron County requires that seniors take a full load. That must be the model that will come.

Herbert should first visit the State School Board. They approved giving full diplomas to those students who pursue a GED (General Educational Development) and pass the five tests. A full diploma just like those who actually earn the full 26-28 credits by attending all four years.

Students who pursue GED exams are usually those who have not been attending nor have passed their courses and have fallen behind.

Every student with a 2.5 GPA or better after their junior year could likely pass all five batteries of the GED. Our State School Board basically encourages students to drop out early by taking the GED so that they can "move on and contribute" to our society. That's all we need--an increased amount of low achievers.

The GED was developed to aid our returning veterans, who had served our country in times of war, and help place them into college as had schooling interrupted.

The test consists of questions in five subject areas: social studies, language arts/writing, language arts/reading, science, and mathematics.

If a student passes those five area tests with at least a score of 410 on each test AND an average of 450 on all five tests, they pass the GED.


The State School Board decided to follow the example of other states and grant full diplomas for those who can pass the GED. Talk about lowering the bar!

Gov. Herbert: Fire the entire State School Board and change that policy.

To hear our Governor talk about all of us having to sacrifice together in these tough economic times. Rather than blow sunshine to the educators yesterday, he was honest and pragmatic.

How refreshing!

Having a retired engineer or scientist won't solve anything. They may be brilliant in their profession, but can they teach? My math teacher in high school was a retired engineer who was undoubtedly a genius, but the students ate him alive. He had no patience for kids and their questions. As a result, he was eaten alive by the students.

Singapore math is not going to do the wonders you think it will. First of all, this is not Singapore. The two educational systems are very different. Singapore, like most Asian countries, puts an emphasis on education--requiring students to attend school for over 220+ days per year. Also, like most countries, they have examinations around the 8th grade year to weed out the non-academic bound students. In America we make an attempt to educate everyone through the 12th grade which means having a mix of serious and non-serious students in classrooms. Thirdly, Singapore has put so much emphasis on math and science that they are leading the world, but they have a problem with their citizens being creative and inventive. They are good at the application but not the creation of things.

Getting rid of public education as it exists is a smart thing to do Gov. He is right, it is the parents responsibilty to teach their kids, not the governments.

Cut taxes, cut public ed. It is a Republican thing to do. I am just glad he comes out and says it is a parents responsibilty. No one remembers that anymore.

Singapore math is just more snake oil. The cultural differences and attitudes towards education between the U.S. and Singapore are miles apart. Americans are notoriously famous for failing to get to the root of the problem because it is not politically viable to chastise your voters for creating a culture that devalues education in favor of entertainment. We are a lazy, entertainment-driven culture and Singapore Math is going to do nothing to fix that. In fact I'm willing to bet that the peddlers (lobbyists) of Singapore Math are going to make some big money when it comes to the state purchasing all of their textbooks and teaching materials. Maybe I'm in the wrong profession. Perhaps I should bash some aspect of education to the point where I get legislative support, write a program to fix the problem, sell it state-wide, and collect the money. Who cares if it works or not, as long as I make money and take my share of education funding. I could even build some charter schools and rent out the buildings to make even more money. Wow, there is money to be made in education.

Re: Problem | 8:11 a.m. July 17, 2009
Lots of rhetoric...

Math is not "hollowed out" nor is it "shallow."

The math state core has been overhauled. It is more difficult than it was in years past.
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Yes the math core has been overhauled, in response to the hollowing out I referred to.

It goes only part way towards fixing the problem though.

There were two types of people on the committee to fix the Utah Math Core, I know, because I testified before this committee, and I spoke with its members.

There were the math educators and the mathematicians. The mathematicians wanted more substance in the core, they wanted a total fix of the hollowing out and dumbing down, the math educators fought this, claiming there was no problem. Some of them in fact claimed there was no reason to even revise the core in the first place.

I do know what I am talking about and if you are an educator, you are what I am talking about, you deny that a problem even exists.

Its time you and yours become part of the solution instead of remaining part of the problem.