Deseret News | Reader comments: State says worst of layoffs is over; union not so sure

Reader comments
State says worst of layoffs is over; union not so sure

Normal work week | 11:51 p.m. July 7, 2009

Give them a normal salaried work week of 50 hours. Get top performers in there and raise salaries by 20% while cutting the staff by 50% and you would save millions on health benefits alone not to mention getting a leaner and more efficient work force.

0.3% Reduction in Staff?! | 1:06 a.m. July 8, 2009

I would guess with an organization with 23,000 employees, that many people quit/retire/get fired on an average month. 71 is nothing! If you want to make a difference, do an across the board 5% cut in workforce and apply a hiring freeze for the next two years, do not replace retirees, do not hire anyone new, that would cut another 4% of the workforce and bingo, you have just cut about 10% of your costs, and I bet that the state still functions. 71 is not worthy of a newspaper article.

Human Services | 4:31 a.m. July 8, 2009

The numbers are understated. They are obviously not counting the people who "opted" to take unplanned earlier retirement when told they could do that or be layed off. The Department even, inequitably, paid incentive money in some areas to encourage early retirements.

Comments continue below

Not enough | 4:52 a.m. July 8, 2009

Of 23,000 state employees, 71 people does not seem sufficient to streamline and cut state spending. This state is in denial that our economy is not going to improve to the point it can sustain itself on declining taxes.

The state must do more to get out of a welfare and concentrate on being a government, not full of socialized program. Many departments were created during times of plenty and now it is time to close some of these departments. These 71 jobs equates to about $2.7 million dollars on a short fall in the tens of millions of dollars. Common sense dictates that there are still many more ways to cut spending and the peoples dependence on government for welfare.

Making more cuts also means more jobs being eliminated in government, as it should be, in major recessions/depression. Less government can be more if legislators and elected officials would just accept that it is not a government as usual anymore.

Normal?? | 5:15 a.m. July 8, 2009

and while we're at it why not just do away with all benefits, vacation time, holidays, sick leave, comp time, over time as well as any and all benefits.
Then build little rooms they can sleep in so we have access to them 24/7 and whip them if they don't perform. After all we want perfect roads and perfect services, but why pay for them??
Even better, extend this to the private sector as well so everyone can enjoy the pleasure of being introduced into slavery.
I appreciate the work our state employees do -- including Teachers, Classified Employees, Police Officers, City Employees and everyone else that provides a service to the citizens of this State and Nation.

Normal Work Week? | 7:10 a.m. July 8, 2009

You are aware that the FLSA would require overtime pay for more than 80 hours in a two-week period.

Confused | 7:29 a.m. July 8, 2009

Not enough.
during the recession/depression cycle, the State usually expands in order to be able to service those people who need thier help (unemployment, welfare, etc)expands.
That is the "Normal" work cycle. All you people who think that working for the State is a cush job has no clue what it takes to do our jobs.

71 people lost their jobs, that does not mean that is all the people, when some choose to retire (with incentive) as normal?? quoted, those positions were never filled which means that the people who are left now has to add to their duties to cover the loss, because we all know how you guys are all such great patrons and NEVER complains about slow service.

In my agency, our director choose to eliminate positions unfilled and loss to retirement than put the "RIF'd" employees on the unemployment list.

Look at what the state has done to make your life so much easier. Go to the web and you can just about do everything you need. Guess what? It took STATE employees to make that possible.

More than 71 | 8:08 a.m. July 8, 2009

This obviously is not counting the hundreds of employees working with DSPD (Human Services) who are being forced out of the State system because of a decision by administration to "privatize" services. It is very questionable if it is saving money, but it should make the legislature happy as there will be fewer State Employees. It doesn't matter if it makes sense. In addition there will be more "RIF's" in the Division.

Right on Confused | 8:23 a.m. July 8, 2009

Thanks for the hard work for lower than average pay that state workers make. I really appreciate what you do regardless of the uninformed and meatheads that think everything can be accompluished through job elimination. These would be the first to scream when services they use are cut. Maybe the state could save money by closing schools in heavy republican districts since they don't see the need to pay taxes. Let them home school their snobby brats.

Follow Novell's Lead | 8:44 a.m. July 8, 2009

The state doesn't have a clue about doing a real layoff. They could learn a thing or two from Novell, Inc. in Utah county. When they do a layoff, they make it sting a little; more to the tune of 10% to 20%. 71 employees out of 23,000? What a joke.

Being a State employee | 9:18 a.m. July 8, 2009

I can see how much we are loved. When I answer the phone I have to pretend like I give a rats back side about your problems. I would like to coment more but my one hour break is about up and my phone is ringing, hope it's you on the other end. Try not to talk too long becaue I need to go to lunch a few hours early today to get my shopping done before my three day holiday this week.
You get what you pay for.

Cry Me a River | 9:37 a.m. July 8, 2009

71 out of 23,000, oh my gosh. Getting laid off by the state has about the same odds as getting hit by lightning. Try working in the private sector. We just had 10 out of 65 laid off in my group, with more coming this year, and me being one a very real possibility. And you have low morale - ha. You state workers do not know how nice you have it.
THIS IS NOT A STORY WORTH REPORTING ON.

Possible corruption? | 9:41 a.m. July 8, 2009

The stimulus money was to be spent over two years. What did the state do with the rest of the money. Utah received nearly $2 billion in stimulus money and spent less than half of that amount. Where is the rest?

Call it like it is | 9:57 a.m. July 8, 2009

Nice that the Legislature gets to strip agencies, the frontline striving to serve taxpayers, of people and resources while their own ballooning legislative staff is insulated from cuts and drawing larger salaries than ever. Some one should check into how many staff the House and Senate had ten years ago verses all the spin-meisters and partisan puppets they have today...

come on | 10:03 a.m. July 8, 2009

clean out the ones in the south eastern part ...all they do is gossip , look at peoples job applications and gossip some more as if they are so secure.

RE: Normal Responder | 10:16 a.m. July 8, 2009

Try working for a public company or private business. You work until you get the job done. You come in early and you stay late as necessary. I worked for the state of Idaho for nine months and was bored out of my mind. They have too many people doing the work. Businesses hire the appropriate number of people for the work where as government fills jobs to fill them. Perhaps the 50% cutback is overstated, but buy trimming the number of employees and having salaried people work a normal work week there would be savings.

Relax everyone! | 10:38 a.m. July 8, 2009

If you wake up in the morning and you find that you don't have a job join the Army. It's not just a job, it's and adventure. They need more people to take care of the mess george bush got us into.
Sign up before your job gets cut, then you can tell your boss to stick it. Do it, sign up today. Don't forget your pen.

The truth of the matter | 10:47 a.m. July 8, 2009

Re RE Normal Responder at 10:16: I work for a private business and I get to leave work at the same time each day. Yes, I work until the job is done but that might mean finishing it tomorrow. Businesses do not necessarily hire the appropriate number of people. I've seen people sitting at cubicles surfing the internet and pretending to be busy and I've seen people worked to the point where turnover is very high and new employees are constantly being hired to replace the old. I agree that government jobs have plenty of inefficiencies but so do private business which is why so many go out of business or stick their hands out for a government bailout or outsource to other countries. You make it sound as if the private sector does everything right 100% of the time. From my experience in the private sector, it does not always make the best decisions which hurts the company and its employees. I'm not saying that the government is perfect because it is not, but the private sector is not walking on water either.

GOP Govt Employee | 12:23 p.m. July 8, 2009

I work for the State, and I'm a conservative Republican. I believe in small government, for very good reason. However, the State of Utah has already been quite small and lean (sometimes too lean) for years now in most (but not all) agencies, much more so than other states. I give long-time conservative governance much of the credit for that.

We have to understand that while small government is a wise principle, it doesn't mean ALL government is too big ALL THE TIME - Utah is an excellent example of that. You cut 5% of the state workforce in California, you probably wouldn't notice. You do that here, trust me brother...you'll notice.

Another View | 1:40 p.m. July 8, 2009

No one has mentioned the fact that a large number of state employees had to take lower paying jobs just to stay employed with the state. This is what I had to do. I took over a 40% pay cut, now I am looking within the state as well as out side the state for new employment with no such luck, no one is hiring. Now my family qualifies for food stamps and we have made application for food stamps. Makes me motivated to make sure the cells are locked at the state prison. When inmates have to be released because there are not enough guards, don't cry to me. I will be shopping with my new food stamps.

picky | 2:49 p.m. July 8, 2009

I work for the State and believe in small government as well. I work my tail off each day for pay well below average. I believe there are people who do not do a fair day's work for their pay and those people should be cut. It should be up to their supervisors to make those decisions and they should not be afraid to do so. Lay offs across the board won't help.

Anonymous | 2:55 p.m. July 8, 2009

To being a State Employee:

So you think that if we give you a raise you are going to work harder. Ya maybe for a few days and then you will be wanting another raise.

You are pathetic. Your productivity should not depend entirely on your salary. Don't you like your job? In the private sector we work hard for many reasons one being if we don't we could get fired. Government workers have no fear of being fired so they know they don't have to work hard.

P.S. We also layed of 25 people in a company of 150. Again, you people are pathetic

Regular State Employee | 4:39 p.m. July 8, 2009

Anonymous, it's easy to see why you are "anonymous". You are generalizing about all state employees. I did not agree with what the person you referred to said but I sure DIDN'T agree with you. Most state employees work hard just like most private employees. What you need to understand is that no company or government is free from abuse. However, you won't like it if your mother dies in a nursing home or assisted living because there were not enough surveyors to oversee them every year so their employees get lazy and don't take proper care of the residents. You will not like it if you need foodstamps or assistance and there are not enough employees to handle the claims and you have to wait months to see if you qualify. Government workers are not immune from being fired for poor performance. You just are very uninformed. "We people" are not pathetic and I resent your implication that we all are.

oneguy | 5:31 p.m. July 8, 2009

Since 2001 I have been laid off three times. I've moved from Utah, to Texas, to Colorado to provide for my family. I have a master’s degree, work for a fortune 500 company but I still work in an environment where its not "if" I'm going to get laid off, it’s just a matter of "when". I have no company sponsored retirement plan, they’ve reduced the 401k plan to nearly no matching, no annual/merit raise for this year or next. Every day I go to work I expect to be my last. I feel sorry for anyone who looses their job, but I have to admit the way the story was written stating that “71 layoffs out of 23,000 hurts moral” doesn't garner too much of my sympathy. A RIF of 71 people in my company doesn't even warrant a company announcement anymore.

Re oneguy: | 11:53 p.m. July 8, 2009

Would you mind telling us what your salary is? It probably more than makes up for a company sponsored retirement plan. The government doesn't do matching 401K plans either. I work in the private sector and make six figures. I don't have a retirement plan either, but I make one for myself because I know how to live within my means. My company also has a 401k match which is something you don't find in the government sector. Too many of my colleagues are house poor on six figure salaries and have set aside no money for retirement. It really is their own fault because they've made plenty of money in my opinion.

leaving | 8:12 a.m. July 9, 2009

I'd bet the actual number is a a lot higher than that the 71 mentioned in the article. As stated the 71 are career service employees who went through a RIFF program. This number does include those "at will employees" which make up the bulk of state workers who have been quietly let go over the last few months with runors of more to come. It also does not mention seasonal workers who were not hired or let go early or those offered/asked/forced to take early retirement.

GOP Govt Employee | 8:36 a.m. July 9, 2009

One final point that really calls this entire story into question:

The "71 employees laid off" figure is grossly inaccurate. It doesn't include at-will employees. It doesn't include forced retirements. It doesn't include part-time FTE-equivalent layoffs. Just the Dept. of Tech Svcs alone had over 100 layoffs. The problem is, I've heard that the Des News made a GRAMA request to State DHRM (HR Mgmt) for a specific thing, and they blindly gave that over...without thinking through the larger question the Des News was obviously trying to answer.

The real figure is many times 71 employees, something which will probably hit the news soon (hopefully).

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