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Comments about ‘In our opinion: A sad day for Utah’

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Published: Wednesday, July 1 2009 12:04 a.m. MDT

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Doggie

Typical Desnews Milk Toast.

Consequences

The editorial says that E-Verify will pull apart families. Families may be pulled apart because the adults CHOSE to enter or stay in this country illegally with full knowledge that they were breaking the law. They certainly do not need to be separated but can take their children home with them. Again, it is their CHOICE. Whatever happened to people being taught to be accountable for their own actions? Breaking laws brings consequences for each of us. It has ever been so. I cannot understand why some folks think illegal aliens and their employers aren’t required to be accountable for their actions like the rest of us.

How many American families are separated when our soldiers go off to war? How many families are separated when sons or daughters (or parents) go on missions? Consider all the criminals in prisons who are separated from their families. None of these can choose to take their children with them. Illegal aliens are free to do so. Their choice to break the law brought them to this point. It is also their choice about whether or not to break up their family. They do have choices.

E-Verify Accurate

The editorial says, “The law places extra burdens on business owners, requiring them to use an E-verify system for which many of them lack training. Elsewhere, this system has been shown to reject legal residents by mistake.”

A study in June 2009 by the Program Evaluation Division of the Office of the Legislative Auditor, State of Minnesota found that most participating Minnesota businesses have positive opinions of E-Verify and report that the cost of using the system is not a significant concern. This study also reported that the accuracy of E-Verify has improved and that nationally, 93 percent or more of queries result in immediate verification of work-authorization; less than 1 percent result in erroneous determinations that an employee is not eligible to work.

Did you get that? Less than 1% of queries result in erroneous determinations that an employee is not eligible to work. This is infinitely more accurate than eyeballing fraudulent IDs and pretending not to notice.

I just wish all employers were required to use E-Verify. I think the day will come.

helen

Nearly all Federal crimes including arson, bank fraud, bank robbery, bribery, carjacking, child pornography, identity theft, identity fraud and many more are enforced at state, local and federal levels.

So why would these hypocrites in sanctuary areas feel illegal immigration is any different?

Those who come here illegally, steal our IDs and ignore our laws have already demonstrated they lack the honesty and decency to ever become American citizens.

a.) Enforce the existing immigration laws.
b.) Secure the border.
c.) Don't hire illegal aliens.
d.) No anchor babies.
e.) Deportation through attrition.

LifeoftheMInd

Why do the Democrats work so hard to steal elections and gain control of legislatures when they advocate ignoring the laws that already exist? The operative word here is "illegal." As for the issue of Federal and State jurisdiction, we already settled that question 136 years ago. Over 600,000 Americans, the equivalent of over 6,000,000 now, died to determine that Congress and the Constitution get to decide who is a citizen, not some local cabal in Atlanta or Selma or Salt Lake City.

Who Needs Facts...

... when its easier and less time consuming to rely on emotion.

The Deseret News should not be surprised when this thoughtful editorial is roundly rejected by the majority of Utahns.

It was only weeks ago that the current Lt. Governor, a man with zero scientific experience or training questioned a Nobel Prize winning scientist on the validity of global warming.

With their reaction to this editorial, Utahns will again illustrate how comfortable they are with a fact-free society.

Mike Richards

Why would obedience to law cause sadness? Here in Utah, and in many other places, we were taught while we were still young that every blessing is predicated upon a law and if we want any blessing we must be willing to live the law to which that blessing belongs.

America is a good and wonderful place, in part because we have order. That order is sustained by law. Those that obey those laws live freely within an ordered society.

When laws are disregarded, chaos results. When laws are ignored by those who have taken an oath to uphold those laws, even greater chaos results, because then many are given the impression that our laws are meaningless.

The law is not meaningless. Breaking a law has consequences. Families will be hurt. Those families were first hurt when they chose to ignore immigration laws. They were hurt again when our politicians wanted their vote and chose to ignore their illegal activity. Now they will be hurt a third time when the original law is enforced.

Obedience to law brings happiness. Breaking laws brings misery.

Choices have consequences.

Some Things to Consider

The argument is made that these people break the law, well who hasn't broken a law?

The argument is made that these people are criminals, but the law against being undocumented isn't a criminal law, any more than jaywalking.

The argument is made that these people do harm because they send money back home, but if the world wasn't willing to accept the US dollar as an international currency, our overspending would cause great inflation, their sending money home is effectively the opposite of counterfeiting money.

The argument is made that these people commit more crimes, but newly released studies show this isn't true.

In short a lot of arguments are made against these people, but the arguments and the truth are not in harmony.

These people pick our crops, clean our hotel rooms, provide affordable housing to through their high quality and affordable labor, without their contributions, our economy would be less than it is.

If many common people are frustrated that the government doesn't listen to them, it is because officials in government are aware of, and acknowledge something they don't or refuse to, that these people are great contributors to society.

re Mike Richards | 5:55 a.m. Ju

Why would obedience to law cause sadness?

Go take a class in American and world history, and when you are finished come back and comment in this forum.

Slavery, Jim Crow laws, Laws against giving protection to Jews so they couldn't be taken to the ovens.

You come across as someone who is ignorant of any history, as someone who learned as a child to obey all laws, and never got past that simple precept to see that life and the world is more complicated than that.

WAKE UP!!!!!

I get tired of everyone who takes the illegal immigrants side and says, "They aren't doing anything worse than jaywalking...." What they won't accept is that these illegal immigrants FAMILIES are bleeding the medical field dry. They go to hospitals and can't be refused services just because they are illegal. So THAT cost is passed off to you and I. They don't pay taxes, so that money is lost and not recovered. Remind me how that relates to jaywalking or speeding? I sympathize with their story that they're trying to find a better life for their families but there is a LEGAL way to do that. My mom came here from Sweden years ago LEGALLY. She didn't complain that the country didn't speak Swedish to accomodate her. We now, because of the illegal immigrants, are forced to have Spanish speaking options for everything and THAT comes at a cost to the legal taxpayers. It's okay to feel sorry for these illegal immigrants plights, but our sorrow and pity doesn't need to go any further than that. Become citizens LEGALLY. That's the law!

Just Wondering

People who argue against comprehensive immigration reform, say making the undocumented pay a fine is amnesty, if they are allowed to stay in the country.

Well is it amnesty too if when anyone gets a speeding ticket they also get a fine, but are allowed to continue on with their journey and not sent back to where they started?

Lionheart

Let's just annex Mexico. It is a fabulously rich country and we are paying the price for its social problems and foolish system. At least we should send the Mexican oligarchs a bill.

Tom


This is a sad day for Utah. We will see the consequences of our choices over time and see that this law will do more harm than good. I am amazed by people's unwillingness to see things as they really are. The editorial say's "It turns anyone with brown skin into a suspect and is sure to breed racism." The breading of racism has already increased greatly in this state because of people holding to views about this law that do not square with reality.

Disobedience to unjust laws

... is moral.

For a refresher course, see "Civil Disobedience" by Henry David Thoreau.

Utah Bob

Conservatives will quote you a thousand reasons for allowing illegal immigrants to come and live in the United States and all of them will be false, phony and lies. The real truth for allowing the illegal immigration is to provide cheap labor to business.

When something threatens that goal, it is considered a sad day. A sad day for business.

However a sad day for Utah businesses with regard to the cheap labor market, is a most happy day for Utah workers.

re WAKE UP!!!!! | 7:21 a.m. Jul

I agree let them do it legally, but how are they to do it legally unless comprehensive immigration reform is passed by the congress?

Paul

The only notorious part of SB81 is how notoriously weak a bill it is. The eVerify provision should apply to all employers in Utah and there should be a large fine if any employer hires an illegal without using that process. I think the only compassion we're seeing in this paper is compassion for the Chamber of Commerce and the employers who may actually have to pay legal wages.

Ultra Bob

If we allow foreign workers to come at will, should we also allow foreign businesses of come at will. Shops, stores, factories, plumbers, banks, etc.

If America is to become (or remain) a fair place to live and have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, there must be balance in the forces that control our lives. And the biggest forces that control our lives is business.

SLC gal

What they don't realize is the burdens Illegals do place on society far outweights the burden expecting them to be fairly, and legally in this country would be.

Tom

TO WAKE UP

I work in a west side hospital where a large amount of our clientele are hispanic and I have talked to people in charge about what you say and have found it not to be true. The majority of them do pay taxes and do so legally though They are not eligible for welfare or other entitlements accept a few emergence service and education for their children.

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