Deseret News | Immigration law will decrease safety

Reader comments
My view: Immigration law will decrease safety

Patriot | 1:05 a.m. June 29, 2009

Decrease Illegal Immigration and you will decrease crime. Look and see how many Illegals are incararated? Is it coinsidence California has the most incarareted Illegal Immigrants and they are broke?

rw | 4:38 a.m. June 29, 2009

Two things we should do to help solve the immigration problem...

Simplify the process of immigration. Immigrants come to the border, they are fingerprinted, samples for DNA taken, iris scan, fill out a couple of forms, they are in. A few hours. A compromise-- they are in on a temporary visa, and if, say, within six months they have not caused any trouble, and have a means of supporting themselves, they can receive a permanent visa. Citizenship, which would provide more benefits, would require an ability to speak functional English. Whatever the approach, a streamlined immigration process would solve most of our illegal immigration problems.

Second, increase our efforts to help improve the economies of the countries from which we receive immigrants. This is good for national security. Healthy economies breed education and democracy. Economically sound, educated, free peoples do not invade us, and are happy to stay in their own countries.

And I agree with the article-- I feel more threatened by speeders than I do by illegal immigrants. Bad drivers have taken loved ones from me. I have never been harmed by an illegal immigrant.

TexasVet | 5:08 a.m. June 29, 2009

This is one of the most ridiculous editorials that I've read in months, if not in the last year. If we sift through the extreme examples, we are left with the last paragraph asking "what part of illegal" don't you understand? Typical lingo from the right wing. Read Mai Ngai's book "Impossible Subjects: Illegal Aliens and the Making of Modern America," and Spickard's "Almost All Aliens" for better background to this question. If this is what passes as policy in Utah, no wonder there is little respect for such nativistic rhetoric. We are a nation of immigrants, but also a nation of laws; however, employing extreme examples somehow suggests that ALL of the undocumented follow these patterns. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, REAL research suggests the complete opposite. The desire to work should not be criminalized as has been done recently, and individuals like this are marginal remnants of an embarrassing nativist past that we will soon put behind us. My guess is that this writer has no problem with the thousands of immigrants currently serving in our military huh? Or that the first casualties of this war were "illegals"?

Comments continue below

Machiavelli | 5:36 a.m. June 29, 2009

Given the astonishing level of avarice, greed, corruption and betrayal behind blatant government refusal - from Bush to Burbank - to enforce immigration law, I suspect that those decent people, namely Richard Lemos, his wife, and the 26 others, were, in an egregiously Machiavellian way, purposely made "examples" in order to deceive us into thinking exactly what Mr. Monson is suggesting: enforcing the law will make the community more dangerous. What a shame. The real threat to the community are the politicians, at all levels, who are willing to sell out the country in order to please the greedy, billionaire white men who essentially want slavery back in America.

Nice try | 5:43 a.m. June 29, 2009

"...the sheer size of the wave of new undocumented immigrants should have created a larger bump in the undocumented-prison population — unless, of course, the newly arriving undocumented immigrants are otherwise obeying the law."

OR, unless the law enforcement agencies choose - as they do - to "catch and release" these criminals instead of adding them to the prison population as they ought to be doing.

Nice try, Mr. Monson.

look at the odds | 5:44 a.m. June 29, 2009

You site one example of someone that did something law abiding. You neglected to point out that they were also law breakers.
I say if they can't do it legally they are criminals and should be treated as such. Too many of them are gang members and use unlawful means to supplement their income. MOst of them have stolen identities and I am not willing to pay my taxes only to have the money used to support criminals.

not so fast | 5:58 a.m. June 29, 2009

"Surely, the loss of innocent life from avoidable traffic fatalities is equally — if not more — damaging to a community than the illegal crossing of the border to get a job. Yet, society continues to function, the rule of law is maintained and there are no punitive demands to clamp down on rampant speeding."

Not so fast, Mr. Monson. History - not to mention reason and logic - demonstrates that allowing illegals to invade and overrun our country without let or hindrance would surely result eventually in the loss of border, language, and culture, which in turn would result in the eventual loss of the country itself. Then tell me that the rule of law would be maintained, that society would continue to function smoothly, and that this would not indicate damage to the community - potentially damage of the most severe kind, and on a far larger scale!

irresponsible journalism | 7:32 a.m. June 29, 2009

This is the worst piece of journalism by Deseret News in years - and it reflects Joe Cannon's poor judgment and lack of journalism credentials.
At least rw (above) has some suggestions which is what we do in a system of law an order. We should change the law, not look the other way as Mr Monson suggests. This piece is all fluff and opinion based on emotion and twisted logic. To compare illegal immigration to "speeders" shows the lack of credibility.

Mike RIchards | 7:32 a.m. June 29, 2009

Why have laws if we allow our politicians to ignore those laws? Why have borders if we allow any and all to enter? Why have locks on the doors of our homes if all should have the right to enter at their leisure, eat from our tables, sleep in our beds?

There must be order in all things. Let them come, but require that they come under the terms and conditions that we have set. Let them come with their heads held high, knowing that they have been welcomed with open arms and invited to live with us as guests. Until they are invited, they must wait. There is enough and to spare when it is given - not when it is taken.

Paul | 7:37 a.m. June 29, 2009

I just don't see any reason to let foreigners decide US immigration policy. Why should US citizens decide what is right for the US? If this is something that is too hard for the US Government to solve, maybe we ought to turn over our Governance to someone else. Would Canada's Government like the job? Of course, we can only pay minimum wage...

wrz | 9:31 a.m. June 29, 2009

@rw 4:38 a.m.:

Two things we should do to help solve the immigration problem...

(1) Enforce illegal immigration labor laws.
(2) Use/require E-Verify for ALL employment.

"I have never been harmed by an illegal immigrant."

You have. You just don't/can't recognize it. Illegal immigrants cost US taxpayers hundreds of millions, perhaps billions, in health care and education costs... to name two areas.

Wisdom | 9:40 a.m. June 29, 2009

The only condtion the Amerindians made of the first arriving Pilgrims was "We trust you won't overstay your visa."

Had we not wrested the lands and governing rights from the Amerindians by deception, fraud and gunpowder, would our country's laws be as they are today?

"The earth is the LORDS's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein." (Psalms 24:1) In my view, this includes the United States of America.

Our immigration laws are protectionist, self-serving, and unjust - to say nothing of unmerciful.

"Well," you say, "since you don't like our laws, then go ahead and try to change them."

That's exactly what I'm doing (along with the Sutherland Institute and a host of other astute and thoughtful DN bloggers) by speaking out against SB81.

Facts | 9:42 a.m. June 29, 2009

re: Patriot

According to statistics obtained from the United States Department of Justice, illegal immigrants incarcerated in California prisons comprised 12 percent of the States prison population in 2008.

The population of California is 37 million.
The number of illegal immigrants in California is 2.8 million

Phantom Panther | 9:43 a.m. June 29, 2009

July 1st needs to get here, FAST! I want this new law enforced pronto!!! I'm sick of illegal immigration. I'm especially sick of all the illegal alien supporters. Immigration laws are designed to protect American Labor and American citizens. We don't need a constant flood of cheap labor forever driving down the wages of Americans and we don't need criminals and terrorists roaming our streets. Obey the LAW! If you want to come here: get in line, follow the rules, learn English, and become an AMERICAN. This is what the majority of Americans want and have the right to expect. I'm sick of the sob stories run by the major media. The media is totally out of touch with average Americans on this issue. The media needs to stop advertising the views of greedy businessmen who get rich off cheap labor, Democrats who hope to get elected with cheap votes from Hispanic "rights" organizations, and churches that hope to swell their rolls and tithing receipts with members. Go out and interview the average American. They support the enactment and implementation of this immigration law!

Betrayed | 9:44 a.m. June 29, 2009

Whatever happened to the world I grew up in where most of us understood the moral obligation we have to one another to be law abiding? This is what truly responsible people do. The rule of law is what preserves nations and the overall wellbeing of its citizens.

Much handwringing goes on about distrust of illegal aliens for law enforcement, especially if SB81 takes effect as planned. However, I don't see anyone ever mentioning that law enforcement and government need the trust of citizens. I feel betrayed by government and law enforcement. What about us responsible, law-abiding, decent, honest, hard-working citizens? Do we not deserve representation? Is our trust not deserved? I am one who steps up and gets involved with Neighborhood Watch. Why should I bother?

Instead of painting us as the bad guy, why isnt the media telling us the stories about greedy, dishonest American employers whove been flouting our laws in order to line their pockets? Why dont I see editorials that castigate our government for breaking the promise made at the time of the 1986 IRCA amnesty: No more amnesty? Where is the indignation and sorrow for that?

What utter nonsense... | 9:59 a.m. June 29, 2009

You can't be in your right mind to conclude that enforcing existing law increases crime. And how can any sensible person honestly believe that reducing the number of illegals will increase crime?

You must be out of your mind...or a liar.

Not so wise, Wisdom | 10:26 a.m. June 29, 2009

@ Wisdom 9:40. A nation without laws and without order, is a nation of anarchy. To compare the pilgrims with modern immigration issues or policy is typical of an uneducated statement. The issues of current ILLEGAL immigration are extremely complex: from diluting legal immigration policy to identity theft, violent and property crime, the burden on social services and our school districts, labor work force, census taking, .... the list is endless. Become informed before sharing liberal "warm fuzzy" thinking and rhetoric. Use logic to take a logical stand.
Liberal thinkers want to provide everything to everyone without cost. There is no possible way to do that if we want to survive as a nation. There IS a high cost to anarchy - or the loss of law and order. SB81 tries to maintain order.

C.L. | 10:47 a.m. June 29, 2009

Two points I'd like to make: First, there is NO JUSTIFICATION for illegal behavior! When we live in a homogenous society like America, we AGREE to live by sets of rules called "laws". True, from time to time some of us disobey those laws, so we pay the price. Illegal aliens have ALREADY committed a felony, just by sneaking across the border. The fact that they MAY become "victims" of crime is irrelevent as to that guilt. Its important for our society that we live by sets of "rules" that we all agreed to even if we don't necessarily like them.
The other point I would make is: what does it tell our kids if we think that people who break the law can get "amnesty" (especially when there are thousands waiting in line to immigrate legally)? The dissatisfaction with the Federal govt. on this issue is obvious. What OTHER LAWS will they REFUSE to enforce? Bank robbery, drug abuse, etc? Illegal immigration IS NOT a victimless crime, even if law enforcement likes to turn a blind eye!

The world is coming to an end | 10:47 a.m. June 29, 2009

I agree with someone from the sutherland institution.

Christopher | 10:51 a.m. June 29, 2009

TO me it boils down to money. If you want local police to enforce Federal Immigration laws; then you need to pay them what a immigration officer makes.
That isn't going to happen; I agree with this editorial 100%.
The Law isn't black and white, and those who think so are much of the problem.

All Knowing | 3:19 p.m. June 29, 2009

@Wisdom 9:40 a.m.

"The only condition the Amerindians made of the first arriving Pilgrims was 'We trust you won't overstay your visa.'"

The Amerindians didn't issue/require visas. Their bad.

"Had we not wrested the lands and governing rights from the Amerindians by deception, fraud and gunpowder, would our country's laws be as they are today?"

Wresting land has been going on in this world since Adam and Eve. Even Amerindians wrested land from each other. And the general rule still applies... "to the victors go the spoils."

Sam the Ham | 3:27 p.m. June 29, 2009

@Mike Richards | 7:32 a.m.: "Let them come..."

Let them come without conditions and you will be inundated. You'll have them camped on your lawn, tromping down your flowers, eating your food, and taking your job. We cannot accommodate all who want to come here, which includes most of the entire world population.

Amazed | 6:01 p.m. June 29, 2009

It's interesting to read how little the average american really knows about the immigration system and how it works. Having dealt with immigration for the past 10 years while working to get my wife her citizenship (legally from step one). It's amazing how simple it is to say, "just get in line and wait your turn." The immigration system is flawed and broken. This SB81 is treating the symptom not the cause of the problem. Let's get a real law in that deals with what causes illegal immigration instead of fanning the flame of hate.
By the way, illegal immigration is not a felony like many believe.

Mike Richards | 8:32 p.m. June 29, 2009

Sam @ 3:27, I beg your pardon, but did you even take the time to read before responding? What you quoted was exactly opposite of the meaning of the full sentence: "Let them come, but require that they come under the terms and conditions that we have set."

Good and bad | 8:55 p.m. June 29, 2009

I have no problem with letting people into the country and giving them time to prove themselves to receive a temporary citizenship. If something happens within a few years, kick them out. If someone doesn't want to live by the rules then they shouldn't live in that area. If people want to make a better lives for themselves then they should do what they can to make that life better. If someone helps the community, then they should stay. If someone is causing trouble, then they should be kicked out. Simple as that.

Sam | 9:24 p.m. June 29, 2009

To Mike @8:32 pm - Then we agree.

John | 11:17 p.m. June 29, 2009

The first 100 years of our country we had an open door policy for immigrants. That is when my ancestors came. The first immigration laws said that a non citizen had to live in our country for 2 years then it was increased to 4 years and the 14 years to prove that they were of "good will" and could contribute to society. Our present laws our broken and dont reflect our history. If you say this issue is not about race at least in part you are deceiving your self but not others.

Maybe | 12:23 a.m. June 30, 2009

If the DN's keeps repeating this pro ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION rhetoric enough times the majority of America will finally concede that their logic, judgement, and experience was flawed and based upon hate and a lack of compassion.

Maybe Americans will then repent and stop their discrimination by welcoming the entire country of Mexico in instead of being stingy and allowing only 10 % of the entire Mexican population to come in and enjoy themselves.

And while we're dialed in to that new found reasoning, we could insist our women bear their husbands at least 30 children, and demand that our neighbors provide for the delivery, continued medical care, education, a job, food, housing, and legal representation from cradle to grave.

And if any refuse and are tempted to go back to their evil ways of selfishness, we should picket their homes and upload videos to YouTube revealing to the world their lack of compassion and patriotism.

I mean, you can never really be a true Christian or patriot until you give all that you have and all that your neighbor has for the benefit of the chosen.

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