Religious groups draw attention to issues raised by Utah's SB81
hey CJ... victim of crime? ... like chilean students murdered by a stupid
american racist on 2009 february 27 in pensacola florida. Those student were
very legal.... Vigil?... There are many American people very happy they
can buy drug.... Don't blame others if parents of those kids didn't know how to
educate them. I have two daughters (18 and 21) and both are against drugs and
abort. Stop do drug and drug dealers will leave themselves this country. "All kind of people there are in the vineyard of the Lord". Or you think
American are good and the others are bad like in the movies. Oh please! Don't generalize, generalizing It sign of intolerance and ignorance.
As an LDS missionary in France, probably half the missionaries I knew were there
illegally at one point or another. Although we entered the country with a legal
visa, a great many of us didn't keep up to date on our "carte de sejour"
paperwork that authorized us to stay in the country.What did Jesus
teach when the pharisees pointed their fingers at him for breaking the law?
Jesus showed that higher laws trump lesser laws. Jesus put loving God and loving
your neighbor above every other law. And who is your neighbor?
Can we now have a similar meeting for the victims of crimes at the hands of
illegal aliens? How about a vigil for the families of kids who were provided
drugs by illegals and are now in rehab? Maybe we could also remember those who
used to be able to make a living wage until they were displaced by an illegal
Mexican who is here freeloading and breaking the law. This is a truly disgusting
outpouring of support for the wrong group of people. Lawbreakers deserve no
sympathy or support of any kind.
I am in no way suggesting that they are "stupid". People are complaining that
the immigrants are taking jobs away from Americans and I was simply attempting
to point out that most high paying and/or desirable jobs in America require
literacy and being fluent in English. I also do not understand your
You said that "Finally, if Americans are so lazy and illegals aren't, then why
do illegals come here; after all, by your reasoning don't they come from
economic meccas full of hard workers?" By my reasoning? I absolutely never led
you to believe that. Do you really think illegals come here because they are
leaving their "economic mecca" of a country??? Some families in Mexico are
worse off than homeless bums I see in the park, and not for lack of trying to be
economically self-sustaining.Finally everyone needs to remember WE
ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS. Even the "Native" Americans. The world is only
so big. And guess what? It belongs to us all.
Ooooooooooooooooh please, this is the reason why our taxes goes up, because
Religious leaders of Salt Lake City, along with members of their flocks gathered
at the Gallivan Center to show support for illegal immigrants and their
families. Just call ICE and deport them all.
All of you haters who hide behind your screen names are no better than klansmen
who hide behind their hoods. These are people who came to this country because
of difficult economic circumstances in their own. Contrary to what most of you
believe, there is no "waiting line," no way for just any person to apply for
U.S. Citizenship. The hateful people who comment on this forum would probably be
the first ones across the border if they were in similar situations.No I don't think that we have room for everyone here, but there are lots of
things we could do to make things better: 1) ICE needs to stop treating the
people they round up for deportation like animals, and give them due process.
2) People who spew racism and hatred towards undocumented immigrants need to put
their money where their mouth is and stop buying products produced by them (that
would be about 90% of the food that you eat.) 3)The U.S. government needs to end
NAFTA and the drug war, which cause much of the misery in Mexico and other Latin
John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the
door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and
Lots of compassion from the DesNews and those that Mr. Norlan interviewed for
this article. On the other hand there was very little logic. Legal immigrants
to the U.S are generally educated and able to contribute, while illegal aliens
are generally poor and able to contribute primarily to the wealth of the cheap
labor employers. This flood of cheap labor depresses wages for teenagers and
other unskilled workers. Illegal alien wages are generally so low that they have
to be subsidized by government resources. Don't kid yourself, this is not about
what Jesus would do, but it is about cheap labor.Another issue would
be how many people can this country absorb? Some commenting above think everyone
should be able to come to the U.S for a better life. Well, that would include
about six BILLION on this planet that are poorer or as poor as the illegal
aliens from Mexico. I don't think we could handle that many. As for race,
Illegal Alien is not a race, but an ethnic group.
Is that fair for those who try so hard to be a legal immigrant?
Deport all the speeders too, after all they are breaking the law and risking the
lives of others. All these people on their high horse about the law.
What a joke. I'll bet 99% of the self righteouse break the law over and over...
Speeding, a little cheating on the tax return??? Come on... Face it. You are
upset because bigotry is in your blood... Simple. Come to terms with your
Illegal immigration is synonymous of desperation and a consequence of
globalizations. Unfortunately every decision taken by your government affects
people in other countries. In fact, many decision taken by a person in the USA
affects people in other countries. When people here decide to do drugs, they
have been the best incentive for corruption in other countries. Many
good people become poor in Latin America because of corruption of others and
they decide desperately to migrate to the USA looking for a better economic
condition. Sorry but the cause-effect law exists. Are you aware how USA harm
economy in Latin America? I have some stories.I heard you say: USA is
defending its homeland fighting overseas. Maybe you should consider illegal
immigrants are defending their harmed economy in your country. If the USA used
tricks lies to justify an attack to Irak and did it anyway in spite NU rejected
the attack... (Because weapons of mass destruction was fake or maybe you prefer
to accept that the USA intelligence service is not good enough)... If the USA
decided to skip NUs resolution , why cant mexican decide to jump the wall?
Way to take the moral superiority--err--moral high ground. First, you can only
assume that Mormons are at the root of all this "hypocrisy," and what do you do
to point this out? You angrily jump to a conclusion while disregarding any
facts!Makes total sense to me--decry hate, racism, and
discrimination using hate, bigotry, and stereotypes. You should run for
So are you suggesting that illegals are too stupid to do anything other than
clean motel rooms, flip burgers, and dig ditches, and they're perfectly content
to do so while Americans aren't? That sounds awfully racist. How else than can
you explain why anybody would be so content to allow such a large group of
people to remain ignorant and dependent on low paying, low skilled work?Of course, you don't consider yourself a racist. Consider this:Let's do a poll on all citizens in America that do clerical or any other
non-"dirty" work, earning say, between $7 and $10 an hour and ask them if they
would be willing to do "dirty" work for several dollars more per hour than their
current job. I have a hunch that most would gladly do "dirty" work if it meant
more money--I know I would, but we can't because legal citizens compete with
people who are willing to work for unlivable wages.Finally, if
Americans are so lazy and illegals aren't, then why do illegals come here; after
all, by your reasoning don't they come from economic meccas full of hard
So what you are saying is that the LDS church is intentionally breaking the law
by harboring illegal immimgrants? It is a sad thing, but just because he is an
"honorable" missionary, does not make it legal for him to be here. While the
tactics used to arrest someone like that are questionable, he should have to
follow the same rules as any other immigrant looking to become an American
LDS Church leaders have disappointed many Latin LDS. In 2005, A church authority
said to many people in a general meeting for Hispanic ...you think that economic
problems pushed you here... but no... it was the Lord. The Lord is bringing you
to this land for His purposes..... They have said this for years. Latin
immigrants, coming in a legal way, come to improve their already good economic
status. Only illegal immigrants are pushed here because of economic problems,
therefore they were spoken specially to illegal immigrants when they said this.
Now they are giving them their back hiding themselves behind the article of
faith 12th... Really bad attitude.This is causing good Latin LDS are
distancing themselves from the church without knowing who to trust in . .... Has The Lord been bringing them to this country to be humiliated?Lawmaker and their followers forget that cause-effect law exist. Every LDS
forced to go back to their country will speak about this hypocrisy and American
missionaries will not be welcome anymore. In fact, they already are speaking
about. Maybe Lawmaker need to read the Book of Mormon, 3Nefi 16:7-16....
Don't worry I still have my testimony...
It is high time to eliminate religion from the tax and corporate codes. Then
allow only community associations to include "religions" for the purpose of
providing a social outlet for those that need or want this type of situation.
Also, require the associations to disburse most donations except operating funds
to needy causes within the community. As it is, religion is a racket where the
smart ones make a good living off it and the not so smart provide the means.
Think of all the forgone tax revenue resulting from "religions" deductions which
is in essence being subsidized by the non religious taxpayers.
native American wants a job!! | 3:01 p.m I'm a white vet. I've come to feel that
being a vet works against you in the job market. You shouldn't blame illegals.
There are plenty of excuses not to give you an opportunity.I once
sounded like a conservative. I believed anyone could get a job. With over twenty
years working in electrical, manufacturing, engineering and with databases: I
have yet to find a real job in the Land of Opportunity.
I know that many people commenting here is mormon. I come from Latin America
and I mormon too. The LDS Church had working american people in temporary
affairs, in the country where I was born for many years. They had similar
requirements as here to get authorization to work and they couldn't satisfy that
requirements. What did the Church do? It declared this persons as missionaries
saying they didn't receive a wage. This was a lie... because they were not
missionaries and they received a wage. I know because I worked with them. Is
this following the law?. I don't understand... you can brake the immigration law
in my country but I cannot brake the immigration law in your country. I
remember that Christ said: "don see the straw in the eyes of others but first
see the beam in yours". I hope I don't trouble your testimony with this and
don't worry... I still have the mine.
If illegal aliens are paying so much in taxes and even though they chose here to
come illegally and start a family here, should illegal aliens be allowed to
become citizens? Sounds like, as it is, they're getting screwed royally by us,
which begs the question, why then did they come here? And if they become
citizens, does that mean they won't have to pay so much to society?And if illegals put far more into our economy than they take out, why don't we
invite the 600 million-plus Latin Americans who don't live here to live here?Or better yet, why don't all Americans simply flock to Latin America, a
place that produces all sorts of people that contribute far more than they take
away? Positive realist, find a place in Latin America to live amongst all these
producers and I'll be right behind you!Or better yet, maybe there is
a way to really help all of these illegal aliens to life as prosperously as most
Americans do, while abiding by the law and remaining in their home country.
Perhaps you think this latter choice more reasonable than the former.
Reading the self-righteous, self-centered, selfish comments expressing
indignation and opposition to a caring attitude toward illegal immegrants in
behalf of "THE LAW" is srikingly reminiscent of the ultra-conservative (read
"Pharasaic") attitude toward the position of Jesus and his response. E.G Matthew
Have the Hopi also asked the Navajo to leave? After all, the Navajo immigrated
to their current home some 500 years ago. And of course, many anthropologists
believe the Hopi and Zuni to descend from the Anasazi, also a group that did not
originate in the American Southwest. So perhaps we should find out from whom
the Anasazi descend and where they lived so we can send the Hopi there and the
Navajo back to Canada.But then, anthropologists theorize that the
first Americans came from Asia, so maybe all the non-Asians should leave America
and go back to where they came. Ultimately though, don't anthropologists say
that the first homo-sapiens originated in Africa? So maybe all human beings
should return to that lone place in Africa where we all came from and leave the
rest of the world to all the animals, who were really the ones here first.Or, maybe we should just accept that humankind has immigrated across the
earth innumerable times, thus making all of humanity immigrants (but not all are
illegal-immigrants). I think that argument to me makes a lot more sense then
either your argument or my first argument.
Could you find me the scripture--anywhere--that catches Jesus exclaiming, "I do
not see borders!" However, I do remember him explaining to "give unto Caesar
that which is Caesar's." I think his deeper teaching in that one was to obey
the law, and not just to pay taxes. In fact, Jesus' life was wrought with
examples of obeying the law, both Rome's and his Fathers. Proof? Haven't some
categorized the trial and conviction of Jesus the biggest legal farce in the
history of the world, since he was not only innocent of all charges but because
his accusers broke almost every law the conceivably could to bring him to
trial?The Jesus I know of from the scriptures not only obeys all
laws but asks us when required to walk a mile with someone to walk with him
i don't see nobody up there singing for me a veteran who risked it
all...carried the dead so they could make it home ...now this poulace is always
in front of me a native getting up the ladder in front of me and mine. When i
show up to a job i am treated as less than and will be the only one capable of
communicating with the boss in english yes i was taught that here in this
country , my country, our country. Seems like once again the native american is
told to get to the back of the economic bus and given no quarters whatever..now
i can see and feel what the great Ira Hayes felt like!
Illegal isn't all black and white.Think for yourself instead of blindly
following like a lemming.
We are all the same in Christ. Sad to know that it is mostly the Mormons the
ones who are the most racist and discriminative of all around here; yet
professing love and charity to all. Hypocrites!Our country was founded on
immigratis, if ya'll don't remember. You and i descend from immigrants up in the
line. Our forefathers even killed indians for land, yet we are here fighting so
that immigrants can't even get a job. Way to go people!! that just shows how
"Crhist-like" you are. "Mormons"
Will people start seeking retribution from the Mormon, catholic and other
churches in Utah for their part in illegal immigration. Why are government
agencies not being sued for their lack of enforcement. They should be made to
pay for the murders, rapes and drug activities by the people that they have
encouraged through their coddling.Where are the lawyers?
Illegal is bad.
Think about the kinds of jobs these immigrants take. Fast food service, maids,
gardeners, repair, construction- intense labor and low benefit. Quit your
whinning. Without illegal immigrants Americans would be forced to get
their own lazy hands dirty. Who is really in line waiting for the illegal
immigrants to leave so that they can scoop up their job washing hotel sheets or
trimming hedges?I would think that living in America, they should
learn to speak our language, but look at it from the opposite side too, many
foreigners I know can speak multiple languages fluently, while I'm ashamed to
say I'm only fluent in our own.
Please ask these illegal aliens supporters what other laws of our country do
they give us the right to ignor. If we are such terrible people that does not
want illegal aliens here, why do they stay. Illegal aliens are thieves in our
country. Go home.
Bigotry has raised it's ugly head in Utah.... How ironic.
Many misinformational emails go out and first you should check the figures on
snopes.com to verify if they are true or not because most are not but have some
truth and many lies. Undocumented people pay gas tax, sales tax,food tax, cig
tax, and in a majority of the cases work using false SS#s and all that money
goes into the gov coffers and adds up to billions of dollars a year. The S.Court
recently ruled that it is not criminal to work using a false #. It is a proven
fact that undocumented people put far more into the economy than they take out,
this comes from a recent TX study that was done. When people talk about
upholding the laws they need to understand that being here undocumented is the
equivalant to a speeding ticket. Do we round up all the people that have had
speeding tickets and put them in tents because they are LAW BREAKERS? We need to
be reasonable and reform the immigration laws because kicking out all the
undocumented people would ruin the economy and separate families, many of whom
are American Citizens.
The Hopi see us as illegal aliens. They have been waiting years for us to do
the right thing: pack up and leave. I would say we all get legal with the Hopi
then we might have some right to see others as illegal aliens.
I am willing to move my business to Utah if I can have the following free
benefits for my employees, all of which are Citizens. As incentives the State of
Utah should give us, no personal taxes, entirely free medical, free education
and advance education as well, immunity from prosecution, all our housing
expensives covered, all food expenses paid, and exemption from all Federal taxes
as well. Now the reality is even if we were to offer 200 or 2000 jobs to the
State they would say no! But this is exactly what the illegals get and the
employers who employ them! This results in less taxes, poorer schools, over run
hospitals and additional burdens on police, fire and other services with nothing
being appreciated. Then people wonder why business owners want to move
operations over seas!
Sammy D. President James Madison said "To promote any religion is
outside the proper scope of limited government."You must not of been
present to hear the arguments presented by church leaders during the
gathering!!! No one said at any time that people should not follow
the law. It is a call for the equal treatment for all!!! i.e for people to be
treated with dignity. Reading the following quote is from the
Unitarian Universalist Association: "Standing on the Side of Love (SSL) is a
public advocacy campaign, sponsored by the Unitarian Association, promoting
respect for the inherent worth and dignity of every person. Standing on the Side
of Love will confront issues of exclusion, oppression, and violence based on
identity. Based on the aspiration to create beloved community, the campaign will
pursue social change through advocacy, public witness and speaking out in
solidarity with those whose lives are publicly demeaned. All people, not just
the Unitarian Universalist, are invited to stand, speak, worship, march, roll,
and live on the Side of Love".Peace
Christ does not see borders.
Are you (Supporter of SB81 ans Sammy D) mormons? Because I would have something
to explain about how LDS Church follows the law in Latin America.
Are you (Supporter of SB81 and Sammy D) mormons?
STAND TALL, UTAH! You have done the right thing in passing your Immigration
Law. Now, ENFORCE IT!Many States will be following you. An end MUST
come to this illegal immigration and it can't be with AMNESTY for 20 million
ILLEGAL ALIENS.If these religious groups really wanted to help these
ILLEGAL ALIENS, they should take up a collection and get the ILLEGAL ALIENS a
one way ticket back to their own country where they belong. NO
ILLEGAL ALIEN HAS A RIGHT TO BE IN THIS COUNTRY FOR ANY REASON!
Of course we should treat illegal immigrants with compassion. However, that
does not mean we should ignore the fact that the influx of illegals places an
enormous strain on our our local, state and federal legal systems and welfare
systems. We should be removing incentives for illegal immigration and creating
barriers to illegal entry.
I wonder if we can get the Salt Lake police chief to raid a few churches, in the
search for illegals...(I know, I know - I'm not even sure he would
raid a 7-11)
This empty-headed mob mentality to influence results of implementing the LAWS
of this land are, in a word, disgusting. The female Episcopal "Bishop" is
either just another trouble-maker (and there are many... whose "job" it is in
life to simply stir up trouble against our laws) speaks of "beliefs", "hopes"
and "values"? She has none of those atributes when it comes to honoring our
country`s LAWS, battle-scared freedoms won and VALUES pertaining to running a
country with basic fairness to CITIZENS! Let us hope and pray that these
mob-scene attention seekers go home, read history and seek their empty-headed
attention elsewhere....OUR COUNTRY HAS TO PROTECT ITSELF FROM LIARS AND CHEATS
TRYING TO SKIRT ESTABLISHED LAW ! PERIOD!
Why is the news media and press trying so hard to manipulate the news and our
laws? There is no reason for news media to use such subversive reporting to
encourage illegals to break our laws. The only reform america needs in
immigration is enforcement of our immigration laws. These illegals have not
earned or deserve any respect and none given.Then these religious
groups seem to have a problem with morality and our laws. No real american
supports the illegal aliens or illegal foreign nationals breaking our laws and
running rampant throughout america scavenging and stealing from the american
people. Religious groups giving aid to illegals should all be charged with
breaking our laws also. If these religious groups are so sympathetic towards
mexicans, why don't they go to mexico and help them in their homeland instead of
encourage breaking our laws? This scourge of illegal mexicans in america has
done enough to our economy and deserve only the harshest punishment.
I don't know what Christ did.I do know what his church does.Immigration status is no barrier to getting married in the temple, serving a
mission (and being sent to a location within the US so there are no Visa
issues), etc. ICE recently arrested an honorable LDS missionary returning
home from a full-time mission in Cincinnati. He'd grown up in the US, he knew
no other home, and he had been a respected Elder on his mission. He was
arrested at an airport, so now the church is having missionaries who are
undocumented immigrants avoid airports, usually by arranging for someone to
drive in and pick them up to take them home. ICE should focus on those
immigrants who are actually dangerous, and not focus on arresting harmless
missionaries or tearing apart families.
I have no problem with immigration, I'm the son of immigrants. I do have a
problem with criminals.If they are in this country legally I have no beef
with them. If not, send them home and treat them like criminals.Any
bleeding heart liberal that disagrees with me needs to understand that for an
illegal to work here they need a social security number. Are you willing to let
them use yours? If not, you have no room to argue with my points.Another
thing. If they want to be in America so bad, they should learn to speak english.
My family did.
VERY WELL SAID "Supporter of SB81." Truth, Reason, Logic and Clarity are on
Churches should of encouraged them to follow the law.
I believe Goldsmith, Wester and Tanner and their followers are well intentioned
but completely misguided in this matter, becoming part of the problem instead of
part of the solution. America is a nation of laws and each of us has a moral
obligation to be law abiding for the good of all a shared responsibility.
Reasonable, responsible, decent, loving, compassionate people understand this is
how civilizations/nations are preserved. I dont pretend to know
what Christ would do; I only know what he did and what he commanded us to do.
He not only told us to love one another (this goes both ways) but also commanded
us not to lie and steal and cheat (not only unloving but dishonest acts). Yet,
that is exactly what illegal immigrants are doing. Additionally, I equate the
greedy, dishonest employers who hire them to the moneychangers Christ drove out
of the temple. It is not possible to find more standing for love
people than my family and friends; yet, were all against illegal immigration. I
fully support SB81. My moral compass tells me its the right thing to do, and I
urge others to get behind it too.