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Obama seeks compromise in debate over health care
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Allen | 5:58 a.m. June 25, 2009
Taxing the highly compensated on their benefits that were greater than the
average worker was called Section 89 of the IRS Tax Code in 1989 and it
didn't work ... not at all. Many companies cancieled health care all
together, or shifted the premium burdon to the employee, or did a major overhaul
of there benefits leaving a shell of what they had. I know, I was one of the
best in the US in this area for several years.
Puppets and Dictatorship | 6:30 a.m. June 25, 2009
Was ever so present last night!
Comments continue below
Change we can believe in | 7:02 a.m. June 25, 2009
There are two main scare tactics being used by private insurance and HMOs to
block creation of competition in the market place. One is reduced quality
(choice of doctors, limited medical options, etc.). The other is that medicare
only reimburses doctors a portion of the expense, so all doctors would go broke
under a government plan. We are already doing both.
My IHC insurance already limits my choice of doctors and medical procedures. If the doctor I want to see is not a participating provider, I must pay more if I can see that doctor at all. Last visit with my IHC doctor for my wife with chronic medical conditions, our doctor for many years told us our insurance would not pay for a procedure common for decades, even though it would solve her serious problems. Rather we must try many other alternatives that are not working.
IHC only reimburses itself for a fraction of the amount it bills itself, so the medicare scare of partial reimbursement is already a reality.
Change is needed in healthcare. Don't be scared by the potential problems thrown out by the insurance companies. We are already there.
My IHC insurance already limits my choice of doctors and medical procedures. If the doctor I want to see is not a participating provider, I must pay more if I can see that doctor at all. Last visit with my IHC doctor for my wife with chronic medical conditions, our doctor for many years told us our insurance would not pay for a procedure common for decades, even though it would solve her serious problems. Rather we must try many other alternatives that are not working.
IHC only reimburses itself for a fraction of the amount it bills itself, so the medicare scare of partial reimbursement is already a reality.
Change is needed in healthcare. Don't be scared by the potential problems thrown out by the insurance companies. We are already there.
Cosmo | 7:10 a.m. June 25, 2009
A Tax is a Tax! Get the foot in the door, then take the whole house next year.
James Dills | 7:25 a.m. June 25, 2009
Yes, for some the health insurance situation is bad, why are we considering
making it worse for all of us?
Is there any example of a government run system that actually improves the care and actually costs less?
Is there any example of a government run system that actually improves the care and actually costs less?
Mink | 7:59 a.m. June 25, 2009
We can't let this man pass universal NO health care!
If they really believe this will work then why won't the president and members of congress switch their health care to it? After this comes amnisty to millions of illegals who will recieve free health care and of course vote democratic. These politicians make me sick. the more they medle in our lives the more freedom and money we will lose!!
If they really believe this will work then why won't the president and members of congress switch their health care to it? After this comes amnisty to millions of illegals who will recieve free health care and of course vote democratic. These politicians make me sick. the more they medle in our lives the more freedom and money we will lose!!
Invisible Hand | 8:13 a.m. June 25, 2009
It's an insidious lie that we need government to provide competition for
health insurers. There are already hundreds of health insurance companies, and
they compete with each other. A government insurance would have the opposite
effect by driving companies out of business and leaving us eventually with a
single payer system.
Dave | 8:36 a.m. June 25, 2009
Obama said it. H e is going to get rid of 'cadillac insurance'
(except for congress), and give us all 'junker health' care.
Pontif | 9:07 a.m. June 25, 2009
Let's face it, the health care debate is all about how to ration services
amongest the American people. There is not enough resource to go around for
everyone.
So we can keep the system we have now, which in effect rations care by denying those who cannot afford it.... Or we can change the system and ration the care with the government deciding who gets what, which the govt already does that with medicare and medicaid....
The days of great care for everyone are long gone already.
BTW, the European model rations care, don't be fooled by those who say how great it is... When you are old in Europe and get cancer, guess what they say - "sorry for your bad luck, we'll keep your comfortable with painkillers, but no treatment"... If you are old there, it's time to die.
So we can keep the system we have now, which in effect rations care by denying those who cannot afford it.... Or we can change the system and ration the care with the government deciding who gets what, which the govt already does that with medicare and medicaid....
The days of great care for everyone are long gone already.
BTW, the European model rations care, don't be fooled by those who say how great it is... When you are old in Europe and get cancer, guess what they say - "sorry for your bad luck, we'll keep your comfortable with painkillers, but no treatment"... If you are old there, it's time to die.
KM | 9:11 a.m. June 25, 2009
Here we go again with the pontificating professor president. He loves marxism
and is bound and determined, with his partners in media, to make this happen.
Once again he is promoting class warfare "eliminating some deductions for
higher earning tax payers" this is supposed to make the rest of us feel
better because he is sticking it to the rich, but we will be next. Then, he
states that he will make "insurers honest because they would have to
compete" Compete against whom? Why, compete against the government. Who
will win out in this competition? It will most assuredly be the government.
All hail to the king and cheif, Obama.
All hail to the king and cheif, Obama.
Marie Devine | 9:57 a.m. June 25, 2009
God warned against insurance (surety) in the Bible. That means there is a better solution. Insurance is costly in time and administration costs and does not add good health. No insurance means employers and employees do not pay insurance fees, leaving more money for them. Family, friends and congregations can help each other.
We are captive to our own ways. We chose to trust man to heal us and we have agencies that keep us employed to be able to get money for insurance. Now the financial crisis means we cannot afford to end jobs if we stopped insurance programs (God's solution).
The solution to this and other world problems is to turn from the employment lifestyle that is destroying our health with stress and pollution of our air, land, water and food, and turn to a garden paradise lifestyle where we choose trees, plants and pets that provide fresh food around us. Prayer, faith, herbs, fresh air and exercise are scientifically proven to heal and restore vitality without expensive equipment and high premiums.
That solves the major world problems quickly, easily, and inexpensively and it is the only sustainable development available. It will last through eternity.
Jemmy | 10:02 a.m. June 25, 2009
...and yet with the US's current healthcare system the country ranks behind
most other developed nations in life expectacy, infant mortality and school-age
physical fitness. The quality of care is certainly no better than
Scandinavia.
I don't hear President Obama talking about a government run healthcare system like the UK, I hear several different plans being suggested that more closely resemble France's or Germany's systems that are a blend of private and public insurances. That is not that much different from what the US has now with Medicare and Medicaid but would simply be expanded to include a larger number of low income people.
It is in ALL of our best interests for the citizens of the USA to be more healthy. In order to be economically competitive in this century the US must find a way to care for ALL of its people like the rest of the developed world does.
The public health risks are too great if the US continues on the current path. The next pandemic is only a matter of time. The fewer people to get treatment and the longer they wait the worse the problem will be.
I don't hear President Obama talking about a government run healthcare system like the UK, I hear several different plans being suggested that more closely resemble France's or Germany's systems that are a blend of private and public insurances. That is not that much different from what the US has now with Medicare and Medicaid but would simply be expanded to include a larger number of low income people.
It is in ALL of our best interests for the citizens of the USA to be more healthy. In order to be economically competitive in this century the US must find a way to care for ALL of its people like the rest of the developed world does.
The public health risks are too great if the US continues on the current path. The next pandemic is only a matter of time. The fewer people to get treatment and the longer they wait the worse the problem will be.
Lew Jeppson | 10:25 a.m. June 25, 2009
To KM, have you read Marx's Capital? If you had, you would know that Obama
is in no way a Marxist. Actually the theoretical foundation for liberalism is
about the same as that for conservatism - market philosophy, but liberals try to
take some of the rough edges off for working stiffs. Also, if you read
"Capital" you'll find that "Marxism" is not an insult.
Really Folks | 10:58 a.m. June 25, 2009
Why would a sane person accept being force to enroll in a healthcare program
created by the government that they don't want to be enrolled in
themselves. Think about that you Obama lovers. Congress and the
'special' government workers get a 'SPECIAL" healthcare
program. You have to be crazy to give up your choices and let the government
TAKEOVER the healthcare system in the USA. God Help Us.
RedShirt | 11:56 a.m. June 25, 2009
To "James Dills | 7:25 a.m." the problem with the government
healthcare is that there is no way it can be cheaper than private insurance.
The average health insurance company runs a 5% profit margin and has about 15% overhead expenses. The government on the otherhand, has about a 25% overhead cost for the federal government, then programs like medicare/medicaid/VA run up to 5% overhead expenses themselves. So, for every dollar you spend for health insurance, you can either have private companies use up 20% for profit and overhead or government use 30% for overhead.
If you want to really cut overhead expeses and be covered for everything, the private industry already has a solution. You can get a Health Savings Account, which allows you to save money every month, and provides office visits for a small co-pay.
The average health insurance company runs a 5% profit margin and has about 15% overhead expenses. The government on the otherhand, has about a 25% overhead cost for the federal government, then programs like medicare/medicaid/VA run up to 5% overhead expenses themselves. So, for every dollar you spend for health insurance, you can either have private companies use up 20% for profit and overhead or government use 30% for overhead.
If you want to really cut overhead expeses and be covered for everything, the private industry already has a solution. You can get a Health Savings Account, which allows you to save money every month, and provides office visits for a small co-pay.
Wally Greenfield | 12:07 p.m. June 25, 2009
I am 62 years old, my wife is 61. She beat cancer 15 years ago but the
insurance company we were with said her condition was pre-existing. We were
with the insurance company for only a month when the cancer was discovered.
Yes, it was pre-existing but we did not know about it. When our first born died
at age 7 days, we learned the insurance company would not pay any death benefits
becuase she didn't live more than 14 days. My wife has a pacemaker and I
am obese. No insurance company will insure us without increasing the premium to
a level prohibitive for us to pay. Doctors say I am in good health except for
my weight. Mr. President, please keep our situation in mind. Thank you.
Caleby | 12:07 p.m. June 25, 2009
What provision in the constitution gives the federal government power to enact
legislation such as this?
I was under the impression that the proper role of government was to protect basic rights not seek to provide each citizen with three hots and a cot.
As Gerald Ford said in 1974, "A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have."
I was under the impression that the proper role of government was to protect basic rights not seek to provide each citizen with three hots and a cot.
As Gerald Ford said in 1974, "A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have."
Just say "No!" | 12:12 p.m. June 25, 2009
To Obama, his health care reform, and his SMOKING habit! Wow... he's lucky
he was elected as president because when he is suffering from lung cancer and
emphysema he will have the best care because of his time in office. As for the
rest of us...? Oh, we'll continue to pay outrageous taxes and have
"un-cadillac" health care. Definitely an obamanation. How much longer
till the next election so we can get this hunk of junk out of the white house?
No Universal Healthcare | 12:29 p.m. June 25, 2009
Please wake up America!!!!!!!!! More government power equals less freedoms and
more taxes in the long-run. If you don't believe me, go live in Europe
where Nationalized Health care is horrible. Obama said we will fix this and
that, but what is his plan of action to do that!!! We need less government and
more freedoms. Capitalism is moving over for marxism. It is time to stand up for
what our Country is about, "The People". Obama is going to continue to
pile on the debt and push for nationalized everything!!! Greedy politicians
don't need more power. I trust the corrupt corporate system way more than
politicians.
@Change we can believe in | 12:30 p.m. June 25, 2009
The main difference between an insurance company like IHC charging reduced rates
is that your insurance company goes out and agrees on a pay rate for each
procedure. Where the government sets an arbitrary amount for Medicade and
Medicare set and forces the doctor to accept that amount as full payment.
Anonymous | 12:34 p.m. June 25, 2009
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to
take away everything you have."
Who pays when corporations become "too big to fail?" Your worldview is one sided. In the last few years corporate accesses have cost more than big government. In fact, large corporate failures have increased the size of government.
Private insurance has over 20% overhead compared to 2% for government. Health care costs have risen for forty years at one to two times the rate of inflation with fewer covered.
American business must complete with businesses in nations that have health care. One reason out auto industry wasn't competitive was the cost of health care.
Our free market health care is a big failure at controlling costs and providing an comfortable service.
Who pays when corporations become "too big to fail?" Your worldview is one sided. In the last few years corporate accesses have cost more than big government. In fact, large corporate failures have increased the size of government.
Private insurance has over 20% overhead compared to 2% for government. Health care costs have risen for forty years at one to two times the rate of inflation with fewer covered.
American business must complete with businesses in nations that have health care. One reason out auto industry wasn't competitive was the cost of health care.
Our free market health care is a big failure at controlling costs and providing an comfortable service.
wallofvoodoo | 12:44 p.m. June 25, 2009
Redshirt, if you really believe that private insruance companies run at a 5%
profit, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you cheap. I'll
give that they make less money now in this volatile stock market, but they
aren't making 5% & keeping shareholders happy.
If they were serious about people having insurance they should make premiums a for AGI deduction on taxes with no floor & allow them to be deductable for Social Security & Medicare without going through an employer. Also so away with all these loopholes that insurance companies use to not pay or to raise premiums to exhorbant rates, & force these companies to cut the pay of their incompetent CEOs.
Making Caddilac benefits taxable sounds like a great idea. Imagine the health plan you could get for $13K.
Keep smoking Obama, less money I have to spend on your Social Security & Pensions.
If they were serious about people having insurance they should make premiums a for AGI deduction on taxes with no floor & allow them to be deductable for Social Security & Medicare without going through an employer. Also so away with all these loopholes that insurance companies use to not pay or to raise premiums to exhorbant rates, & force these companies to cut the pay of their incompetent CEOs.
Making Caddilac benefits taxable sounds like a great idea. Imagine the health plan you could get for $13K.
Keep smoking Obama, less money I have to spend on your Social Security & Pensions.
@ANON | 12:48 p.m. June 25, 2009
Have you ever submitted a claim to CMS(center for medicare and medicaid
services) There is a reason for 2% overhead, they are understaffed. You
wont' get your claim paid or denied for a year.
This is DISGRACEFUL | 1:51 p.m. June 25, 2009
It is DISGRACEFUL that big government is meddling in health care and trying to
give people access to doctors and medicine without making people pay the full
market price for it. If people want better healthcare, they should work harder
and get better jobs to pay for it!
What's next?! Free education??!! This is the SOCIALISM that we predicted if Obama was elected!
There are way more important things going on like FIGHTING TERRORISM and STOPPING ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION that should command the full attention and financial resources of the government!
What's next?! Free education??!! This is the SOCIALISM that we predicted if Obama was elected!
There are way more important things going on like FIGHTING TERRORISM and STOPPING ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION that should command the full attention and financial resources of the government!
The Founders | 2:01 p.m. June 25, 2009
You now have the right to life, liberty, and a colonostomy whenever the
government gets around to giving it to you!
RedShirt | 2:25 p.m. June 25, 2009
To "wallofvoodoo | 12:44 p.m. " do a google search for the average
profit for an health insurance company. According to Allbusiness dot com
"The profit margin on commercial health insurance declined to 3.8% in 2006
on revenue of $172 billion from 4.9% on revenue of $164 billion in 2005.
TheStreet.com Ratings' analysis of health insurers also revealed the profit
margin on Medicaid business to be 1.6% in 2006 on revenue of $30 billion, down
from 1.8% in 2005 on revenue of $26 billion."
There you go, do you have anything stating otherwise?
There you go, do you have anything stating otherwise?
Grover | 3:56 p.m. June 25, 2009
How come if I get injured in most countries in the European Union, my bills are
covered? We pay twice as much leave out 50 million people and choke on the
thought that non Americans are "stealing" coverage. Why?
KM | 3:56 p.m. June 25, 2009
@Lew "marxism is not an insult" Wow, I would take it as an extreme
insult, but thats just me. If I understand Marx and Marxism correctly; his
theory seeks to eliminate private property, to pit the wealthy against the poor
(working class) to make all things equal. He also, if I'm not mistaken,
wanted to see communism win out over capitalism.
Obama sounds alot like Bill Ayers, who sounds alot like Marx.
Bottom line is free people create wealth and the only thing government does really well is consume wealth. No?
Obama sounds alot like Bill Ayers, who sounds alot like Marx.
Bottom line is free people create wealth and the only thing government does really well is consume wealth. No?
RedShirt | 4:25 p.m. June 25, 2009
To "Grover | 3:56 p.m." why is it that when a wealthy person in a
foreign country wants the most advanced treatment they leave their state run
healthcare system and come to the US?
Right2Life | 6:49 p.m. June 25, 2009
The current topic is for the poor who cannot afford any type of healthcare at
all.
We all have a right to life, liberty, and justice... poor and rich. In fact it is often the greedy rich who takes these rights away from the poor and enslaves the poor.
Healthcare is the main ingredient of Life. The choice of saving lives in the current healthcare system favors the rich over the poor.
Example 2 people get into a car accident.
The rich greedy driver who has health insurance was at fault because he was drinking and driving gets the quality service and lives. The poor person who gave service to his community gets impaired for life and lives.
With lawsuits, the majority of the money goes to the Lawyer, The poor person has to pay medical bills for life because he could not afford health insurance and can not get health insurance because of a preexisting condition that he was not responsible for.
Change the Fear Healthcare industry into the Care Healthcare industry.
Change our emphasis from greed to charity.
We all have a right to life, liberty, and justice... poor and rich. In fact it is often the greedy rich who takes these rights away from the poor and enslaves the poor.
Healthcare is the main ingredient of Life. The choice of saving lives in the current healthcare system favors the rich over the poor.
Example 2 people get into a car accident.
The rich greedy driver who has health insurance was at fault because he was drinking and driving gets the quality service and lives. The poor person who gave service to his community gets impaired for life and lives.
With lawsuits, the majority of the money goes to the Lawyer, The poor person has to pay medical bills for life because he could not afford health insurance and can not get health insurance because of a preexisting condition that he was not responsible for.
Change the Fear Healthcare industry into the Care Healthcare industry.
Change our emphasis from greed to charity.
Jemmy | 9:11 p.m. June 25, 2009
@ Redshirt - since when do northern Europeans come to the USA for treatment? I
have often heard that bantered about by my American-born friends but have never,
ever met a European who has come to the States for treatment and have heard of
only one case of conjoined twins from Germany who came to the US for separation.
That had to do with a particular doctor instead of the system.
I came to the US for many reasons but healthcare certainly wasn't one of them. In fact, I'd rather be back in Germany if I needed ongoing treatment for a serious illness. There I'd have adequate care at an affordable price, legal protection for my job and plenty of sick leave if I needed it.
I've had lengthy hospital stays in Germany, the USA and Japan due to a chronic health problem. Japan's hospital wasn't great but there was very little difference in care between Germany and the US except for the bills.
By the way, rich Middle-Eastern people come to Europe quite often for treatment as to rich Americans for stem cell treatments.
I came to the US for many reasons but healthcare certainly wasn't one of them. In fact, I'd rather be back in Germany if I needed ongoing treatment for a serious illness. There I'd have adequate care at an affordable price, legal protection for my job and plenty of sick leave if I needed it.
I've had lengthy hospital stays in Germany, the USA and Japan due to a chronic health problem. Japan's hospital wasn't great but there was very little difference in care between Germany and the US except for the bills.
By the way, rich Middle-Eastern people come to Europe quite often for treatment as to rich Americans for stem cell treatments.
What2do Now | 9:47 p.m. June 25, 2009
Lets take a look at international ratings.
United States is the number 1 spender, the most money on healthcare in the world because it is privatized.
The United States is rated 72nd level of health and 37th in performance.
Lets learn and apply systems that are working in countrys that are better and have universal healthcare.
To much greed from bankers invested in the pharmacuetical and insurance industry who do not want to see this changed to a government system.
Check more international facts. These stats are provided by the World Health Organization. Do an internet search for: country ranking health who.
Another Reality Fact. Germans like quality and Japanese like to take whatever works and makes it better. This was not always the case but they changed to survive and so can the United States change to survive.
The United States needs to reverse the downhill health trend for it to survive economically.
A Healthy Nation boosts the economy.
A non profit government system is a good start.
United States is the number 1 spender, the most money on healthcare in the world because it is privatized.
The United States is rated 72nd level of health and 37th in performance.
Lets learn and apply systems that are working in countrys that are better and have universal healthcare.
To much greed from bankers invested in the pharmacuetical and insurance industry who do not want to see this changed to a government system.
Check more international facts. These stats are provided by the World Health Organization. Do an internet search for: country ranking health who.
Another Reality Fact. Germans like quality and Japanese like to take whatever works and makes it better. This was not always the case but they changed to survive and so can the United States change to survive.
The United States needs to reverse the downhill health trend for it to survive economically.
A Healthy Nation boosts the economy.
A non profit government system is a good start.
RedShirt | 7:58 a.m. June 26, 2009
To "What2do Now | 9:47 p.m." you missed out on the fact that the US is
considered to have the most advanced medicine in the world.
The insurance industry averages less than 5% profits and around 15% overhead, compared to 25% federal government overhead and an additional 3% to 5% program overhead.
The US GDP per person is nearly double what it is for most of Europe.
If you want to see a downhill trend, look at the GDP per person of other nations. They once were the same as the US, but as they adopted more socialism, their GDPs went down.
The insurance industry averages less than 5% profits and around 15% overhead, compared to 25% federal government overhead and an additional 3% to 5% program overhead.
The US GDP per person is nearly double what it is for most of Europe.
If you want to see a downhill trend, look at the GDP per person of other nations. They once were the same as the US, but as they adopted more socialism, their GDPs went down.
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