Comments about ‘Ancient artifacts sacred, not trivial’

great editorial. Finally someone addresses the ever popular claim that achaeologists are just "legalized" looters. The analogy of artifacts being nothing more than trophies similar to those collected by some hunters is spot on.

I enjoyed the article. Too many people feel that every thing out there that they find is free for the taking. I belonged to the Davis Chapter of the Utah State Archealogy Society years ago and remember visiting a members house where they had literally hundreds of artifacts they had found. One person even mentioned that he had a skeleton of a young baby still wrapped in the burial robes. I felt guilty that I did not turn that person in but I didn't want to be a snitch. I quit the society because this was just a club that spent their time looting sites in Utah. We should be ashamed of ourselves for even thinking that these treasures are ours to keep and sell.

I agree with the story people should not be so greedy and want to dig up what should be left alone. The people who have done this should pay for what they have done and not get off with just a slap on the hand. A lot of history has been lost forever and can never be replaced or traced back thanks to the grave robbers and there need for greed. I only hope that it will stop.

I don't agree with Mr. Jones.

Indian artifacts are found everywhere in southern Utah, especially in the Blanding and Four Corners areas. It's not uncommon for hikers to find pots and other relics, and even bones, only short distances from towns and ranches.

If these items were so sacred to today's Indians, they would do something about them. Instead, they do nothing, and some even trade in them, just like those who were arrested recently.

It seems that the only people who are really concerned about such items are those, like Mr. Jones, whose job depends on them. I ask, why didn't Mr. Jones write to the Deseret News before now? If he really believes what he says, why wait until now to make his views known?

I say bulldoze the anasazi ruins and artifacts.

"I say bulldoze the anasazi ruins and artifacts." Utah is the place. Its not a place of enlightenment.

One of the significant facts that is continuously being left out of this saga is that members of this group who were arrested have had in the past...and continued...even up to this present arrest to acquire human remains without the proper licensing to do so....Human Remains are no longer and have not been for years considered as artifacts. Even forgetting or putting aside the other illegal violatry facts such as: Desecration... Blackmarketing...profiteering...Intastate as well as Interstate racketeering in illegal contraband...and unlawfaul posession of such contraband...the unuthorized possession of human remains is still blatantly serious.

Another issue tied to these raids that so many seem to want to make an issue of is the justification for the Federal officers to go in using heavy handed tactics. Several of those arrested were known to always carry both firearms and handguns while conducting these pillaging forayes.

Why don't you ask the families of Conley Elms and William Pogue. For those of you old enough and can remember...those were the two Idaho Fish and Game Wardens who were gunned down and cold bloodedly executed by Claude Dallas in 1971...Therein lies the precident.

Wow, we sure throw around the term "sacred" pretty losely these days. Will my trash be sacred someday? I sure hope no goes to prison over my junk. If it is so sacred how come the archeologists break these pots to make room for more? How many pots do they need to study? As far as my ancestors go, much of their stuff has already disintegrated, and if I did find something left I bet they would think it is ok to look at or get a kick out of it.

in short, succinct sentences apparently is not the forte of archaeologists.

What exactly is the true value of old things found on or in the ground?

Those who may have transgressed a federal law should not have. But to make it such an issue that suicide appears the only way out: nothing old is worth that.

Comments like that coming from "Robert" are so indicative of the small world view on this issue. He may see no value in these cultural treasures, but I wonder how he would feel if someone desecrated the grave of a member of his family or told him that the volume of research on his family's history was rubbish, that no one cares, that it has no meaning.

And, please, dispense with "the Feds are taking over" already. Again, more small-minded nonsense that works overtime to keep Utah in the 19th century.

I agree with respect for burial sites and artifacts found in burial sites. These are sacred. However, penalizing a person for picking up a loose arrowhead or broken pottery not associated with a historical site is a bit excessive. These are the trash of another culter. By the same concept people picking up trash on the side of the road should also be prosecuted. An old whiskey bottle or a newly deposited beer bottle truley says alot about our culture. And in 1,500 years may be just as valuable and as sacred a relic.

I live in central Texas and love archaeology, but I cannot but wonder, what if native american archaeologists were digging up the remains of "Europeans" for the artifacts, etc. Would the "Europeans" let them continue3 or raise a very large maloderous stink.

Digging up graves or looting known and listed archeological sites should not be tolerated; it should be a criminal offense to do those things.

However said, picking up arrowheads or other artifacts that have long been detached from the original sites by natural erosion, moved by animals or other means should not be a crime; those artifacts have long since lost their archeological significance.

Private property is not the domain of the government; artifacts found on private property are not government property.

Assigning the "sacred" terminology to artifacts has far-reaching and overreaching aspects that opens up another can of worms; what is considered "sacred" to one culture can be benign or evil to another.

In other words, when government begins to use ambiguous terminology in making law, it essentially is using blanket terminology to criminalize whole segments of a population over the acts of a few looters.

Respecting history and cultural differences is important in our country, but you'd better keep governemnt in check or it will at some point go beyond the point of common sense and make other things like rockhounding and who knows what, a criminal offense.

Pandora's Box has been openend!

What's sacred? Using this view, you can justify showing LDS temple rites on TV and parading temple garments is cool if these are sacred to you.

They already have. And no one is going to prison for it. Hummm, I think I see a double standard. Native Americans claim something is sacred and everybody gets on the bandwagon and gets politically correct. The LDS claim something is sacred and are met with derision, scorn, and mocking. Why is it OK to be a religous bigot?

@ anon 3:22
You are comparing apples to oranges. Native americans can be shown on T.V. doing rain dances or other ceremonies. But i would be in just as much trouble, (if not more) if i started digging up graves of your mormon ancestors and taking items buried with them as artifacts.

It's junk they threw out, just like the junk we throw out.

I agreee that these artifacts are treasures; but salvage archaeologists frequently excavate ruins; only to put the pots in a hole, cover them with dirt; and run over them with a back hoe. the road is then built on top. So if these are treasures of a lost culture; why does the state sponsored digs frequently destroy our culture heritage in a manner that no one can ever again see or enjoy the relics? They dont have enough repositories or funds to properly store the collections. you guys pointing the fingers are need to dig a little deeper. The governemnt enforces only what laws they see fit; their were clearly laws broken here; but should this be a priority worth spending millions of dollars on when the state is just as guilty of destroying our heritage in the salvage archaeology; and arnt their other laws such drugs and human trafficing that are better deserving of federal resources? Its another typical government operation; innefficient and helping nobody. All the big fraud committed is never hit head on. The crimes like Madoff's ponsy scheme are always a mop up by the government. I wish they would better allocate resources/

Truth 1:

Not everything that is declared "scared" actually is, it is a term used VERY loosely by native americans, because they have found it works with the PC sensitive left.


Truth 2:

Archeologist do care that much about pots the million of pot, and bilions of pot shards.

And they learned all they can from them.


Truth 3:

The stuff that was collected by the people were NOT from burial sites.

And archeologists disturb and study ancient burial sites all the time.

An no one had been struct down by lightening yet.

So perhaps we should take a very seriuous look what is sacred and what is not, and what "sacred" really means, and not use it so flippantly and casually,

if you really believe in God then there really are sacred things,

and then there are those things just considered sacred by man.


The real "sacred" will stand the test of time.

I did know the pot were "scared."