Deseret News | Reader comments: Rock: I could win a title with Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, etc.

Reader comments
Brad Rock: Rock: I could win a title with Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, etc.

Gils_Keloids | 11:14 p.m. June 16, 2009

The problem with your argument is that the teams did not win the years before Phil Jackson arrived. The Chicago Bulls did not win before Phil. The Lakers, even with a stacked team of Shaq, Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, and a young Kobe, did not win before Phil. And we know how Kobe's Lakers fared without Phil - they didn't even make the playoffs.

Also, the first time Jordan retired, Jordan left a 57 win team. Without Jordan, Phil coached the Scottie Pippen-led Bulls to 55 wins. Red Auerbach had much more talent on his teams, and he did not have to deal with free agency. Red may have been a better GM, but Phil is the better coach.

Stoney | 11:36 p.m. June 16, 2009

I think the thing that sets him apart from any other coach, and gives him a little control over the uncontrollable is his ego. Winning a bunch of titles lets him claim to be the best, biggest, nastiest, baddest son of a gun ever to wear a tie to a game. The team with giant egos can only be coached, I mean, controlled by someone whose ego is just as big and thus garners some respect from the junior egos.

Brad | 2:05 a.m. June 17, 2009

The reality of it is you couldn't win a title with Jordan, Kobe or Shaq just as allot of better coaches than you couldn't until Phil came along. Like it or not Phil's got the rings and the stats to prove it. If we followed your arguemnet who ever coached LeBron should have one this year, after all he was the MVP. If Phil went to the Cav's LeBron would get a ring.

Comments continue below

So could I | 5:57 a.m. June 17, 2009

But I wouldn't want to if I had to have Kobe on my team. I'd rather lose than coach thugs.

John in Georgia | 6:30 a.m. June 17, 2009

I agree with the story. Titles do not equal greatness. Otherwise you have to say that Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, KC Jones, Tom Sanders, John Havlicek, Jim Loscutoff, Frank Ramsey, and Robert Horry were all better than Michael Jordan because they won more titles than him (Bill Russell won the most with 11 but he actually may be as good as if not better than Jordan in his day).

Sorry Utah | 6:32 a.m. June 17, 2009

What a bunch of negative and jaleous writers and fans. Why cant you get Jerry Sloan win trophies for you guys? Always the same lame excuses behind jaleousy. THIAS IS THE MAIN REASON I STOPPED ANY AFFILIATION WITH THE JAZZ.
INCREDIBLE.
WHAT IS PREVENTING UTAH FROM ACQUIRING PLAYERS OF KOBE,SHAQ,DUNCAN OR JORDAN CALIBER ?

Zac | 7:44 a.m. June 17, 2009

Well said Gils, my sentiments exactly. I can't stand Phil, but you can't argue with the results. My guess is had Phil been the Jazz Coach during the Stockton/Malone years, we would have at least one or two titles. We had the better team in 97 and 98, although not the best player. During those finals, if the coaches were switched, the Jazz would have won at least once if not both times. And I'm not sure Sloan ever will win one even if he had the best talent.

It Takes a Team | 8:00 a.m. June 17, 2009

It takes more than just a team of players, it takes a front office who can recruit, trade or fanagle thier way into bringing in guys that give strength to thier areas of weekness. When you have a GM that has done the amazing job that thiers has of bringing in the talent they have to surround a great player like Kobe (I don't care for him as a person from what I know of him but the guy works his butt off and did things in the playoffs that left me with my jaw on the ground), then you have the best team in the NBA. GM, Coach, Players...it takes a team that is bigger than what plays on the court! I am an "anyone but the lakers" sort of guy (maybe would feel diff if Kobe wasn't on thier team) but they made it happen and my hat is off to them for gutting it out and smokin' the Magic.

2 more | 8:35 a.m. June 17, 2009

Phil should have two more titles if he was the greatest coach ever. In 2004 he had a star studded team with Shaq, Kobe, Karl Malone and Gary Payton, believed to be one of the greatest teams in NBA history. Yet, he was outcoached by Larry Brown and got beat by the Pistons.

They also should have won last year, but his team could not play defense to stop the Celtics. Ariza should have played many more minutes in that series.

He is the one the the best coaches as much as big shot Bob is one of the greatest players in NBA history.

Amen | 8:54 a.m. June 17, 2009

Have you seen Jackson during a game? Have you heard him? He literally just gets out of the way. He'll say something like "guys, we have to hit the boards" or "play harder". I'm not sure he could diagram a pick and roll on a chalkboard.

Red Holtzman | 11:58 a.m. June 17, 2009

Doesnt get enough credit

Sokol | 12:01 p.m. June 17, 2009

Having Jordan and Kobe was undeniably the reason they won? Now take away any of those two players and tell me how good the Bulls or the Lakers would be? The story makes alot of sense and Jackson does not deserve the accolades.

Re:2 more | 12:29 p.m. June 17, 2009

The 2004 team was in no way one of the geatest teams of all time. Payton, Malone and even Shaq were on their last legs. Payton couldn't gaurd anyone anymore and Malone could barely jump. good try but that team would have lost to several NBA teams in the past few years. Let aone the greatest of all time.

SteveW | 12:44 p.m. June 17, 2009

You nailed it, Rock. Jackson is a good ego manager. He has to be to handle egos the size of Jordan's, Shaq's and of course Kobe's monster ego, but he's not much of a coach.

Everyone praises the "Triangle Offense", but I have yet to find anyone who can explain why its so great; or what it is, for that matter. Not to mention the fact that Jackson didn't create the Triangle. Tex Winter created it and no one gave a darn about it until Phil plugged Michael Jordan into it.

Phil belongs in LA - all hype, all show, very little substance.

re: Sorry | 12:48 p.m. June 17, 2009

"WHAT IS PREVENTING UTAH FROM ACQUIRING PLAYERS OF KOBE,SHAQ,DUNCAN OR JORDAN CALIBER ?"

Are you kidding, or 10 years old? The Jazz haven't had the right picks at the right time.

Is your next question "why is the sky blue?"

Re: Amen | 12:50 p.m. June 17, 2009

Yup just like Joe Paterno, Bear Bryant, Booby Bowden and oh ya Lavell Edwards as they were at the end of their coaching careers. They didn't have to do much thye were all legends by then, just like Phil.

re: Amen | 12:53 p.m. June 17, 2009

No Tex Winters, no titles for Jackson.

The last person on earth who realized the Lakers needed to post up Gasol was Jackson. They could've had four series of 4-0 with a better coach.

Michael | 1:36 p.m. June 17, 2009

Phil did a nice job of coaching this year. Close vs. Houston, Denver and orlando series was closer than it ended up. However, MJ is MJ and PIP is PIP when they were in their prime and Cartwright and longley were the starting centers in the 3 peats tells you about the talent of those 2.

Scott | 4:39 p.m. June 17, 2009

You are dead wrong about Phil Jackson not being a great coach. How do I know? How many championships did Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippin have after playing together for several seasons without Phil Jackson? None. How many did they have after Jackson came on board? Six. How many championships did Shaq and Kobe have after playing together and on separate teams for many seasons without Jackson? None. After Jackson? Three together with Jackson, one more for Kobe with Jackson. No one is better at motivating NBA players than Jackson.

DEEP | 4:47 p.m. June 17, 2009

LOSERS HATE WINNERS!!

Tom | 4:52 p.m. June 17, 2009

Idiotic article from someone that plainly doesn't understand coaching at a championship level. The majority of NBA players are incredibly talented but most aren't coached or guided well. Most coaches would have pulled Derek Fisher in the Finals. Phil leaves him in because he sees what most don't. Well deserved championship for L.A. Quit your crying!

Cosmo | 6:11 p.m. June 17, 2009

So a 16 year old could command the respect of Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Shaq, Kobe, etc., get them all to play cohesively, and lead them to championships? This guy wins the prize for stupidity. Hands down.

Manormachine | 7:01 p.m. June 17, 2009

Really come on now so what when Phil Jackson was in Chicago it was MJ team. He still had to get there respect and buy in to do the triangle offense. Lets remember Chicago never really had a true big man in the middle. As for the Lakers he still needed them to buy in the system.

The Babysitter | 7:42 p.m. June 17, 2009

Kobe is overrated. Without Jackson all he did was lose and was miserable. Jackson is an expert in diaper changing and giving players what they want to motivate them to win. He is one of the more overrated coaches but he helped Kobe win without Shaq which I thought would never happen. Without Jackson kobe would still be crying to be traded on another team.

phil is overrrated | 8:50 p.m. June 17, 2009

sorry dont buy the ego thing..if phil really wants to cement his legacy go coach the memphis grizzlies to a title or the bobcats..to me larry brown had to be the best coach inthe league ..seems like evrywhere he went he turn those teams into championship contenders..heck he even coach the clippers into the playoffs one year and this was during the clippers heydays of futility..meanwhile zemmaster coach the greatest player ever ;probably the best big men in his era and probabilty the best high school prospect ever in kobe..so there`s is no argument here..he is probably waiitng in line to coach lebron also!!!

StickerBush | 9:15 p.m. June 17, 2009

I ain't never liked the Celtics. The great rivalary with Russell and Wilt was fashioned by Red Aerbach. He was a great coach,no matter how much I hated Boston. Red got those Titles with one team,not with two or three teams. Why didn't Phil or Pat stay with the Bulls and lakers? Talent drain is the reason why.Shag went to Miami and Pat went down stairs. Kicked out the coach,won a title. Shag left so did Pat. It's a joke. Will Phil stay in LA if Kobe leaves----NO. If a young great Big man came to Miami. Would Pat come back downstairs---YES. If he ain't retired yet. It's a great big joke. Greatest coaches these days.

Skilled | 9:30 p.m. June 17, 2009

Phil Jackson in not the best coach, he inherited teams that were ripe for a championship, Bulls/Lakers, Auerbach made his team, Daly too. As for the Lakers, they were aided by the league to get the lion share of good players, what happened to the salary cap that was aimed to balance out the teams. Jerry West gifted them with Gasol. The championship should have an asterisk.

RE: re: Sorry | 12:48 p.m. | 9:44 p.m. June 17, 2009

And why didn't the Jazz have right picks at the right time?

The fact is they did,

IN '79 they had chance at Magic Johnson and traded the pick away
IN '80 they took griffith instead of mchale,
IN '82 they traded away d. wilkins,
IN '83 the took thurl bailey instead of clyde drexler

and you can find many more of these mistakes,

Yeah they had there chances,

But biggest problem, recently, is sloan,

yes,he coached the team to many wins, even over-achieved

causing thme get lousy draft postion after lousy draft position,

keeping just above medicocre,

never giveng them a chance to get that player they needed to win a championship.

Jazz history can be summed up as missed chances and deprivation of chances.

Joe | 11:38 p.m. June 17, 2009

Why did Jorday say, 'No Jackson as coach, no me as player'? Kobe and Shaq love playing for him. That has to mean something. The proof is in the pudding. Phil Jackson has won more championships than any other coach in the history of the NBA.

Red won 9 with Russell, Cousey, Havi, and then Russell won more without Red. It seems to me that it is too difficult for Jazz fans to give credit where credit is due.

Re: Sorry | 11:43 p.m. June 17, 2009

Noted the missed opportunities. As noted, even with Magic, Drexler, Jordan or Kobe, Sloan cannot win a championship. Jazz fans are blind with hate, I am glad I walked away from the Jazz. Not worthy arguing with fools.

Also | 2:06 a.m. June 18, 2009

Phil won 2 NBA championships rings as a player with the Knicks in the early 70s

Phil has a total of 12 NBA titles and 1 CBA title

I am sure Phil could win also win NCAA basketball titles if he coached at North Carolina

Montanan | 10:38 a.m. June 18, 2009

Jackson is not really from Deer Lodge - his father just happened to be a preacher there for a few years while Jackson was playing ball elsewhere.

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