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Herbert challenges reality of global climate change
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Big Pete | 7:16 a.m. June 16, 2009
Hooray for Gary. His courage is commendable.
One more Shrub to Weed out | 7:25 a.m. June 16, 2009
We just barely got done weeding the White House of one shrub, looks like were
about to get another in the Utah Capitol. I can't believe Huntsman would
have chosen someone as his lieutenant governor who is this ignorant (of the
issues, but ignorant as well). This will be like the dark ages that we just
barely got over with when Obama took over.The only hope is we can get another
decent person to run against Herbert in the next election.
Anonymous | 7:29 a.m. June 16, 2009
Courage to be stupid.
Comments continue below
Filthy Utah Suprise - Not! | 7:35 a.m. June 16, 2009
From the state with some of the worst air quality in the country, it is no
surprise that another politician refuses to take responsibility for our actions
and values money more than human beings.
Your children will appreciate the selfishness and Utah's inability to lead when it comes to caring for the planet.
Your children will appreciate the selfishness and Utah's inability to lead when it comes to caring for the planet.
no excuse | 7:35 a.m. June 16, 2009
there is no excuse for Lt. Gov. Herbert to not have studied up on this issue.
It is his duty to seek out the scientific understanding of the issue. He has
staff. He can be briefed. He can sit down with the Governor's staff. He
can call upon the state's scientists. He can type in climate change on a
Google search. But for him to come to the Governor's Association Meetings
as a blank page and say "I don't know anything about this and I'm
inclined to think its baloney because a bunch of my rural friends (ranchers,
farmers, etc.) feel threatened by it" is inexcusable. He will have a very
hard time being re=elected in 2010 if he presents himself this way. Note to
Herbert, get smart on big issues like this, and get smart fast. 80% of the
folks voting for you are along the Wasatch Front. You won't win by just
getting votes from Kane County.
ntrlresourcelwyr | 7:35 a.m. June 16, 2009
Yeehaw! Looks like Utah gets to revert to the stone age again. Unfortunately,
whether you believe in global warming/climate change or not, this type of
thinking is not helpful. It doesn't take a scientist to visibly observe
how much junk we're spewing into the atmosphere, our water bodies and
landfills. Regardless of whether you're convinced, Herbert, take a stand
that the status quo is simply not good enough! If we're going do double in
size over the next few decades, we can't keep acting in the current manner.
Twice the population equals more than double the problems. Our water resources
are already stretched almost to the limit. Our air quality is horrible. New
clean water isn't going to appear out of thin air. The air we breathe
isn't going to miraculously shed itself of all the particulates we're
pumping into it. If you're going to ride the growth train, then
you've simply got to learn to do more with less, regardless of whether you
buy the climate change argument (and I do, having spent the time to study it and
earn a related professional degree).
Thank You | 7:40 a.m. June 16, 2009
It looks like we are going to have an adult in charge of the state again.
Have you ever noticed that elitest liberals are "open-minded" unless you disagree with them.
The fact is that there is no proof that man-made global warming exists. Even the proponents admit that. So liberals keep up the name-calling all you want it isn't going to change my mind.
Have you ever noticed that elitest liberals are "open-minded" unless you disagree with them.
The fact is that there is no proof that man-made global warming exists. Even the proponents admit that. So liberals keep up the name-calling all you want it isn't going to change my mind.
Boneheads | 7:43 a.m. June 16, 2009
Utahns are making being willfully ignorant into a virtue.
Utah Doc | 7:49 a.m. June 16, 2009
Herbert is right to question the evidence concerning global warming. Quite often
the "evidence" to support global warming is skewed to retain research
grants... which have been sizable and abundant in recent years.
Jeff | 7:55 a.m. June 16, 2009
Thank you Gary! There a few who are willing to stand up for what is right!
Climate change is nothing more than an avenue to 1) create global and domestic taxes, 2) Give more power to the UN, and 3) push us needlessly to political and social globalism.
Even if there were climate change, do you think our politicians have power to control it? If you think the answer is for government to mandate we all drive electric cars and tax large wide screen TVs, there is not much hope for you!
Climate change is nothing more than an avenue to 1) create global and domestic taxes, 2) Give more power to the UN, and 3) push us needlessly to political and social globalism.
Even if there were climate change, do you think our politicians have power to control it? If you think the answer is for government to mandate we all drive electric cars and tax large wide screen TVs, there is not much hope for you!
Anonymous | 8:05 a.m. June 16, 2009
Co2 levels have increased, that is correct, but the reality is that the air in
the US is actually cleaner. Harmful emissions like SO2 (causes acid rain)and
NOX (causes smog & ozone)that actually have an impact on public health are
the lowest they have been in 40 years. Check EPA website for facts on SO2, NOX
etc. Pretty cool stuff.
dc | 8:08 a.m. June 16, 2009
At least he's asking the question.
To the naysayers, this is a version of Pascal's wager. If we take precautions and it's not true then we've done no harm and have reduced our dependence on foreign oil. We've also saved ourselves lots of money.
If it is true well they're your children, which you claim to care so much about. They will have a much harder life than you have.
The earth will survive, we may not.
$4 gas is coming in any case. Have you watched the prices lately?
To the naysayers, this is a version of Pascal's wager. If we take precautions and it's not true then we've done no harm and have reduced our dependence on foreign oil. We've also saved ourselves lots of money.
If it is true well they're your children, which you claim to care so much about. They will have a much harder life than you have.
The earth will survive, we may not.
$4 gas is coming in any case. Have you watched the prices lately?
Knowwhat | 8:08 a.m. June 16, 2009
Consenus not!
I am a skepticGlobal warming has become a new religion. - Nobel Prize Winner for
Physics, Ivar Giaever.
Warming fears are the worst scientific scandal in the historyWhen people come to
know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists. - UN IPCC
Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical
chemist.
Anyone who claims that the debate is over and the conclusions are firm has a
fundamentally unscientific approach to one of the most momentous issues of our time.
- Solar physicist Dr. Pal Brekke, senior advisor to the Norwegian Space Centre in Oslo.
Brekke has published more than 40 peer-reviewed scientific articles on the sun and solar
interaction with the Earth.
Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting
warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined. - Atmospheric
physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in
Pittsburgh.
I am a skepticGlobal warming has become a new religion. - Nobel Prize Winner for
Physics, Ivar Giaever.
Warming fears are the worst scientific scandal in the historyWhen people come to
know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists. - UN IPCC
Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical
chemist.
Anyone who claims that the debate is over and the conclusions are firm has a
fundamentally unscientific approach to one of the most momentous issues of our time.
- Solar physicist Dr. Pal Brekke, senior advisor to the Norwegian Space Centre in Oslo.
Brekke has published more than 40 peer-reviewed scientific articles on the sun and solar
interaction with the Earth.
Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting
warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined. - Atmospheric
physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in
Pittsburgh.
Knowwhat | 8:16 a.m. June 16, 2009
Key points that 700 international scientists argree and say about global
warming.
1) The Earth is currently well within natural climate variability.
2) Almost all climate fear is generated by unproven computer model predictions.
3) An abundance of peer-reviewed studies continue to debunk rising CO2 fears and,
4) "Consensus" has been manufactured for political, not scientific purposes.
Taken from the U.S Senate Minority report, last update March 16, 2009
1) The Earth is currently well within natural climate variability.
2) Almost all climate fear is generated by unproven computer model predictions.
3) An abundance of peer-reviewed studies continue to debunk rising CO2 fears and,
4) "Consensus" has been manufactured for political, not scientific purposes.
Taken from the U.S Senate Minority report, last update March 16, 2009
Now We're Talking!!! | 8:17 a.m. June 16, 2009
Thank goodness someone has the guts to raise a voice against the political winds
trying to force man-made global warming policies down our throats. Being a
mechanical engineer, I've studied the greenhouse gas issue. As I've
considered the Second Law of Thermodynamics and heat transfer mechanisms in this
debate, they are in disagreement with the theory of have man-made global warming
due to carbon dioxide or other so-called Green House gasses. Let there be a
scientific debate on the issue!!! As it stands, politicians have nothing to lose
if they support the erroneous theory because if it turns out to be false, they
can simply blame the scientists.
Yea to Governor Herbert!
Yea to Governor Herbert!
Grover | 8:21 a.m. June 16, 2009
No one cares what a former Utah county politician thinks about global
warming...er I mean "climate change" (to use GOP code). People do care
however what the governor of our State thinks. Most decisions that face adults
are not of the black and white variety but requiring weighing the pros and cons
and making an informed decision. Herbert owes it to Utahns to study the issue
and hear from the best minds on both sides of the issue. As one of the "not
totally convinced" attendees put it, "when I am not sure of something,
I buy an insurance policy just in case."
Clean the world up anyway! | 8:28 a.m. June 16, 2009
Anyone who has ever been to the Wasatch Front should agree on global pollution
or global warming, whatever you want to call it. I personally believe that
global warming has been over hyped but lets clean the earth up! How anyone
living in Utah or SL counties dares take a breath is beyond me. Sorry but it is
no FAIRY TALE that Utah is becoming a polluted state, plus our right wing
friends want to bring in nuclear waste from other states and countries to
contribute to our ever growing waste dump of a state. The reason people want to
come to Utah is for the natural beauty, I doubt that will be the case when we
are know for nuclear waste dumps and the only state with more pollution than LA.
Wise up Utah!
skeptical scientist | 8:35 a.m. June 16, 2009
The science is not conclusive about human caused global warming AND we're
not yet as warm as we were during the time of Lief Erickson.
Remember from history? He's the guy who grew wine grapes in Greenland while the other Vikings sailed small wooden ships from the Atlantic to the Pacific through clear water. That's right folks, the polar ice was probably completely melted in the time of Lucky Leif.
Why then, one might ask, do we still have polar bears? Where did they live while there was no pack ice? The answer of course, as already noted, is that nature finds a way.
When I was in college the big "crisis" was chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). They were supposed to deplete the ozone layer that protects us from deadly solar radiation. So we gave up certain refrigerants and aerosol propellants. THEN Mt. Pinatubo erupted in the Phillipines and in a single week put more CFCs into the atmosphere than humans had in a century. The scientific consensus was wrong. Humans are like dust on the planet.
How arrogant we are to believe that the planet even notices us on geological time scales.
Remember from history? He's the guy who grew wine grapes in Greenland while the other Vikings sailed small wooden ships from the Atlantic to the Pacific through clear water. That's right folks, the polar ice was probably completely melted in the time of Lucky Leif.
Why then, one might ask, do we still have polar bears? Where did they live while there was no pack ice? The answer of course, as already noted, is that nature finds a way.
When I was in college the big "crisis" was chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). They were supposed to deplete the ozone layer that protects us from deadly solar radiation. So we gave up certain refrigerants and aerosol propellants. THEN Mt. Pinatubo erupted in the Phillipines and in a single week put more CFCs into the atmosphere than humans had in a century. The scientific consensus was wrong. Humans are like dust on the planet.
How arrogant we are to believe that the planet even notices us on geological time scales.
all about the $ | 8:36 a.m. June 16, 2009
Yes, there are climate change deniers just as there are those who deny smoking
causes cancer. But does anyone really contend that we are too ignorant to make
policy decisions!? Lt. Governor Herbert confuses lack of unanimity with lack of
consensus. If we wait for 100% agreement we wait forever (to the advantage of
those who profit from the status quo). Are we really debating causation or is
this about who will profit and who will pay?
YAHOO! | 8:37 a.m. June 16, 2009
Thank you for speaking truth in the midst of a horrible effort by the socialist
extremist environmentalists to silence any decent. You earned my vote and my
support by your unapologetic and honest approach. Yahoo, I'm glad for Gov
Huntsman and his new opportunity in China, but I'm even happier to get a
Governor who reflects the values of mainstream Utah!
Knowwhat | 8:38 a.m. June 16, 2009
Grover, I think Herbert actually was quoted as saying this, "But again
I'm going to be very slow to make radical changes. I'm going to
listen, and I'm going to learn."
Beware that liberal fanatical religion does affect your comprehension skills.
Beware that liberal fanatical religion does affect your comprehension skills.
re:Grover | 8:43 a.m. June 16, 2009
When you aren't sure of something you buy an insurance policy if the cost
isn't prohibitive. Also, how many potential risks out there do you have
insurance for? Personally I have life, health, home and auto insurance. I
didn't buy Y2K insurance when all computers were going to stop working
according to the mainstream press, and I'm not buying the phoney Global
Warming insurance which will just be another step toward total Governmental
control by the Socialists.
Wake up and do some research and realize this whole effort is a joke.
Wake up and do some research and realize this whole effort is a joke.
Don't confuse him with facts | 8:48 a.m. June 16, 2009
Herbert is a realtor and having just completed a new home purchase I can say
with conviction that realators are not scientists! Don't confuse the man
with facts. Fact number one is that Utah is polluted to the point of having some
of the worst air quality in the US. Watch out China, Utah is not content with
having the worst air in America, we want the worst air in the world!
Re; Michael | 8:49 a.m. June 16, 2009
"I am not a scientist - I am a pragmatist. I believe in what I can see,
touch and feel."
Good. Then go and Google "UAH global temperature anomaly" and you'll see that according to satellite measurements the earth's surface temperature has remained virtually unchanged over the past 20 years, aside from a spike in 1998.
The average surface temperature of the earth today is almost identical to what it was 20 years go. Despite the fluctuations there has been no net global warming since then.
Good. Then go and Google "UAH global temperature anomaly" and you'll see that according to satellite measurements the earth's surface temperature has remained virtually unchanged over the past 20 years, aside from a spike in 1998.
The average surface temperature of the earth today is almost identical to what it was 20 years go. Despite the fluctuations there has been no net global warming since then.
To YAHOO! @ 8:37 | 8:53 a.m. June 16, 2009
"...I'm even happier to get a Governor who reflects the values of
mainstream Utah!"
Ahh... "Mainstream Utah Values."
What are they?
Disdain for education, reason and expert opinion.
Willful, stubborn refusal to pay attention to, or even acknowledge, objective evidence.
Labeling anyone who's opinion you disagree with as "socialist!"
Taking AM radio know-nothing (but proud of it!)blowhards more seriously than decades of careful research conducted by eminent scientists.
Yep - those are all good ol' "Utah values."
Ahh... "Mainstream Utah Values."
What are they?
Disdain for education, reason and expert opinion.
Willful, stubborn refusal to pay attention to, or even acknowledge, objective evidence.
Labeling anyone who's opinion you disagree with as "socialist!"
Taking AM radio know-nothing (but proud of it!)blowhards more seriously than decades of careful research conducted by eminent scientists.
Yep - those are all good ol' "Utah values."
Anonymous | 8:57 a.m. June 16, 2009
Most scientist used to believed that the earth was flat, most scientist used to
believe in Dawins theory. Scientist have been wrong on many important issues
throughout history and they are wrong on the issue of global warming as well. If
you put ice into a glass of water, when it melts, does the water level rise or
does it stay the same. Are you smater than a first grader, Al Gore isn't.
Emjay | 9:01 a.m. June 16, 2009
You don't set public policy (that will cost us unknown trillions of dollars
and opportunity costs that can't be quantified) based on a theory that MANY
scientists don't even agree with. That would be really stupid.
Good for Gary Herbert.
Good for Gary Herbert.
Pollution vs Global Warming | 9:14 a.m. June 16, 2009
I'm sure we all agree that we don't want to breathe pollution, and
that we should be doing what we can to reduce pollution as technology develops.
Global Warming/Climate Change is a new enough issue that we don't know
enough about it to know whether we should even be concerned or not. The thing
we do know for sure is that our seat-of-the-pants "solutions" will
costs a lot of money, and won't change things significantly on a global
basis. We must also remember our government (us) has been using other
people's money for a long time. Maybe we can spend more of our
children's money? Maybe our grandchildren's?
Breaking News! | 9:25 a.m. June 16, 2009
Rational people everywhere recognize that there is an enormous amount of peer
pressure to agree with warming advocates and that the "overwhelming number
of scientists who agree" with them is the the same argument our children
make to us by saying, "all the kids in the neighborhood have
x-boxes."
Just saying the words doesn't make you right. Neither does scoffing at the opposition.
Just saying the words doesn't make you right. Neither does scoffing at the opposition.
Dr. Booty | 9:25 a.m. June 16, 2009
Oh thank Heaven, for Gary Herbert. Finally, we will get a governor who refuses
to bow down to the "Green-Weenies". (Unlike Huntsman)
I applaud our new governor. He knows what we all have known for too long: There isn't any such thing as "Man-Made" Global Warming; this is just a fraud invented by the Leftist's.
I applaud our new governor. He knows what we all have known for too long: There isn't any such thing as "Man-Made" Global Warming; this is just a fraud invented by the Leftist's.
climate change | 9:25 a.m. June 16, 2009
The climate always changes and always will. I am not sure that man has a lot to
do with it.
The question isn't if global warming exists, the question is does human behavior have much impact? I doubt it.
The question isn't if global warming exists, the question is does human behavior have much impact? I doubt it.
Re: Don't confuse him with facts | 9:28 a.m. June 16, 2009
"Fact number one is that Utah is polluted to the point of having some of
the worst air quality in the US. Watch out China, Utah is not content with
having the worst air in America, we want the worst air in the world!"
Really? That's not according to what the actual scientists at the Utah Division of Air Quality and the EPA say. Go to the Division of Air Quality's website where they write that
"Despite these challenges, Utah's air continues to improve. As noted in the last two previous reports - 2006 and 2007 - in the early 1980s, Utah struggled to meet the health standards for four of the six criteria pollutants identified by the EPA. By 2006, all Utah counties attained current federal air quality standards."
And then there's the EPA, who on their "Air Compare" website, list Salt Lake City as having significantly less air pollution days than Los Angeles and Tuscon, AZ.
Fact is, Utah's air is cleaner today than any time in the past 50 years, and it's getting cleaner.
Sorry to confuse you with facts, but I have noticed lately environmentalists are having a hard time accepting reality.
Really? That's not according to what the actual scientists at the Utah Division of Air Quality and the EPA say. Go to the Division of Air Quality's website where they write that
"Despite these challenges, Utah's air continues to improve. As noted in the last two previous reports - 2006 and 2007 - in the early 1980s, Utah struggled to meet the health standards for four of the six criteria pollutants identified by the EPA. By 2006, all Utah counties attained current federal air quality standards."
And then there's the EPA, who on their "Air Compare" website, list Salt Lake City as having significantly less air pollution days than Los Angeles and Tuscon, AZ.
Fact is, Utah's air is cleaner today than any time in the past 50 years, and it's getting cleaner.
Sorry to confuse you with facts, but I have noticed lately environmentalists are having a hard time accepting reality.
jdp | 9:32 a.m. June 16, 2009
Actually, scientists in the Middle Ages--or natural philosophers, as they were
known--always knew the world was round. It was the uneducated and superstitious
who believed the earth was flat. Perhaps those who question climate change, and
humans' role in bringing it about, ought to take a page from history and
become educated themselves--that is, read the science for yourselves, not
conservative bloggers and talking heads, before you decide. The truth is pretty
persuasive if you expose yourself to it.
The | 9:36 a.m. June 16, 2009
adamant proponents of Man-made Global Warming and their solutions sound like
those described by C.S. Lewis who employ fire extinguishers during times of
flood.
Sad | 9:37 a.m. June 16, 2009
(2Ti 3:7) Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the
truth.
The whole GW debate is SO difficult to sort out due to the fact that there are agendas evident on all sides. It seems impossible to glean the truth.
Also...So many tie pollution up with their perceptions of GW...These are seperarate but related issues.
The repeated remarks implying that doing something about GW even if it is not real won't hurt anything, is a silly statement in that whatever we do will require resources and decision making that will drastically affect how we live. It is akin to me taking my personal resources (Such as the house payment) and spending it all on food storage in case of a food shortage. After all what could it hurt?
I am with Gary Herbert in that I am unwilling to pull the trigger on policy and resource allocation for an idea that is still so hotly debated.
The whole GW debate is SO difficult to sort out due to the fact that there are agendas evident on all sides. It seems impossible to glean the truth.
Also...So many tie pollution up with their perceptions of GW...These are seperarate but related issues.
The repeated remarks implying that doing something about GW even if it is not real won't hurt anything, is a silly statement in that whatever we do will require resources and decision making that will drastically affect how we live. It is akin to me taking my personal resources (Such as the house payment) and spending it all on food storage in case of a food shortage. After all what could it hurt?
I am with Gary Herbert in that I am unwilling to pull the trigger on policy and resource allocation for an idea that is still so hotly debated.
tom | 9:43 a.m. June 16, 2009
thank you obama for taking huntsman away. now we can have a real governor with a
real backbone again, not some flimsy moderate intent on making their fan base
happy at the rest of the public's expense...
Finally!! | 9:46 a.m. June 16, 2009
It is about time a Gov spoke up on 'global warming'. Just because Al
Gore said the debate is over, it is not. There are many who disagree with Al,
it is another way for government to control our lives and collect more taxes.
To 'how embarrassing', those who have bought the line of Gore and
others just have their head in the sand.
goforit | 9:47 a.m. June 16, 2009
Even if most all of the world's esteemed scientists were wrong, and you
non-believers found science to fit your preconceived notions of how things
should be, and then you convinced the world that there was some secret
conspiracy headed by Al Gore, dont you still like to breathe clean air? Are not
the annual inversions, the statistically proved shorter life expectancy for Utah
County residents (thanks to the former Geneva Steel mill), and all the other bad
things that come out of living in an inversion enough to make you want to do
something to improve the air quality / environment, or is it more important to
make or save a buck at the expense of the general populations welfare?
Yahoo again | 9:48 a.m. June 16, 2009
Mainstream Utahans have a common sense that is more discerning when it comes to
propaganda from the left. People like yourself are more concerned with labeling
dissenters as "flat earthers" or worse akin to "holocaust
deniers". You don't want to debate the science of Global Warming, in
fact you refuse to. You look at anyone who disagrees with a contempt and
disdain calling us "uneducated" and "refusing to acknowledge
evidence". I believe your attitude is arrogant and prideful.
Just listen to the words of our future Governor as he asks for proof, not saying he has the conclusive answers but acknowledging that there are respectable scientists on both sides of the argument. Thanks again to Mr. Herbert, and may more people like him stand up to the prideful and arrogant people like you.
Just listen to the words of our future Governor as he asks for proof, not saying he has the conclusive answers but acknowledging that there are respectable scientists on both sides of the argument. Thanks again to Mr. Herbert, and may more people like him stand up to the prideful and arrogant people like you.
The Rock | 9:52 a.m. June 16, 2009
I live in Washington State.
A friend of mine had the courage to question global warming in public. It made the national press.
The kind, tolerant people who believe in global warming were calling this man around the clock (and they had a two week old baby).
The Global Warming orthodoxy cannot tolerate a heretic. The only thing they can do when somebody has the courage to ask hard questions is name calling and harassment.
1. CO2 is a naturally occouring gas.
2. CO2 is essential to life.
3. Climate patterns do not track with CO2 for the long haul.
4. As temperatures increase CO2 is released from the ocean indicating that increased CO2 levels are an effect, not a cause of higher temperatures.
5. Water vapor is the most significant green house gas. Note how much warmer it is when there is cloud cover.
6. It was much warmer 1000 years ago than it is today during the mideval warming period. That was a very prosperous period of European history.
Those with the courage to question global warming are reiducled and harassed.
Think for yourself. How could a minor change in CO2 levels destroy a planet?
A friend of mine had the courage to question global warming in public. It made the national press.
The kind, tolerant people who believe in global warming were calling this man around the clock (and they had a two week old baby).
The Global Warming orthodoxy cannot tolerate a heretic. The only thing they can do when somebody has the courage to ask hard questions is name calling and harassment.
1. CO2 is a naturally occouring gas.
2. CO2 is essential to life.
3. Climate patterns do not track with CO2 for the long haul.
4. As temperatures increase CO2 is released from the ocean indicating that increased CO2 levels are an effect, not a cause of higher temperatures.
5. Water vapor is the most significant green house gas. Note how much warmer it is when there is cloud cover.
6. It was much warmer 1000 years ago than it is today during the mideval warming period. That was a very prosperous period of European history.
Those with the courage to question global warming are reiducled and harassed.
Think for yourself. How could a minor change in CO2 levels destroy a planet?
Evets | 9:53 a.m. June 16, 2009
"The debate on global warming is over." That reminds me of the
statement in the late 1800's that "all science has been
discovered". I am old enough to remember that when I was in college it was
concluded that the earth was doomed because of global cooling and that the world
was running out of food. All of this was wrong and proclaimed as fact by
"scientist" as fact then. Our present "scientist" are just
as wrong today.
Over the years I did enough research in my graduate and post-graduate education to learn one thing. Many of my peers were very smart but had no common sense and therefore came to wrong conclusions and that many of them had an agenda when they did their research. They either wanted to prove their pet theory, want to fit in with the group/department, or they had a book or theoretical model to pitch. Needless to say I became a real skeptic of a lot of research but then again that has helped me in applying what I learned to my real world job.
Over the years I did enough research in my graduate and post-graduate education to learn one thing. Many of my peers were very smart but had no common sense and therefore came to wrong conclusions and that many of them had an agenda when they did their research. They either wanted to prove their pet theory, want to fit in with the group/department, or they had a book or theoretical model to pitch. Needless to say I became a real skeptic of a lot of research but then again that has helped me in applying what I learned to my real world job.
Grover | 9:58 a.m. June 16, 2009
Re @grover: After working in the insurance industry for many years, I also have
the same portfolio of insurance coverage as you with one exception: earthquake
coverage. Geologists (not to be confused with Climatologists) tell us that Utah
has had a major quake every 500 years. It has now been nearly 550 years since
the last big (6 or over)one. My hopefully informed decision is to buy coverage
against what could be a catastrophe. You on the other hand, blithely go without
and if the event occurs will expect the government to come in and rescue you.
Who will be the "socialist" then Pub?
Phoebe | 9:58 a.m. June 16, 2009
The best part of this story is that Herbert asks the group to help him
understand the science, but then, when an actual scientist gives a presentation
on how climate change works, Herbert steps out of the room. Classic! Herbert
is obviously a guy who doesn't want to be confused by the facts.
jc | 10:00 a.m. June 16, 2009
Science is not determined by polls. Or comment boards. The plural of anecdote is
not data.
VOR | 10:10 a.m. June 16, 2009
in other news, some idiots still think the world is flat, that the sun revolves
around the earth, that sneezing is really demons trying to escape your body, and
that the earth is really only 6,000 years old!
I'm curious as to where the new Gov. got his degree in some sort of earth Science? Perhaps he has a degree in Climatology? Or at least Meteorology? What? Oh wait; he's a former President of the Utah Association of Realtors? Ha, that's it! He's our man on understanding climate change!
But the whole global warming thing is just made up garbage from a bunch of tree hugging hippies. Yea, I'm sticking with that one.
I'm curious as to where the new Gov. got his degree in some sort of earth Science? Perhaps he has a degree in Climatology? Or at least Meteorology? What? Oh wait; he's a former President of the Utah Association of Realtors? Ha, that's it! He's our man on understanding climate change!
But the whole global warming thing is just made up garbage from a bunch of tree hugging hippies. Yea, I'm sticking with that one.
JJ | 10:12 a.m. June 16, 2009
Global warming or climate change as they call it now, is nothing more than a
money making operation for people like Al Gore and his cronies. Go look up all
the Boards Al gore is on and Hedge Funds he is involved with and you will really
see whats going on. He is promoting "climate change" on behalf of
several companies so they can line their pockets from all this nonsense and he
is making tens of millions for his efforts. As they say "follow the
money"
Fredd | 10:20 a.m. June 16, 2009
Pima County, AZ (Tucson) had ZERO unhealthy days while Salt Lake County, UT had
NINE unhealthy days. Facts can be confusing when you lie. From the EPA Compare
Air web site using the general population. There is a Glacier in Alsaka,
Portage Glacier that has treated many miles from the visitors center that was
built at its base in the 60's. I think as much as 10 miles or more. I
don't know if humans are causing this but don't lie.
AJCH | 10:21 a.m. June 16, 2009
The global warming argument is, like, the same as the argument about whether the
earth is round or flat. Hello! Everyone knows that if the earth was round and we
sailed to the otherside we would be upside down! Im so glad Herbert is our gov.
Such impressive logic he has!
Fredd | 10:23 a.m. June 16, 2009
For asthma and lung disease sufferers its 37 to 1 SLC to Tucson
Heart disease is 22 to 1
Older and children is 37 to 1
And active outdoors is 27 to ZERO
So those of you who wish to post facts and quote a web site should actually go to the web site.
Heart disease is 22 to 1
Older and children is 37 to 1
And active outdoors is 27 to ZERO
So those of you who wish to post facts and quote a web site should actually go to the web site.
@9:37 | 10:25 a.m. June 16, 2009
Ok, now please don't confuse liberals with actual facts and logic... let
me try! Of course "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion
still".
1. There are limited resources in this world.
2. We need to decide what's the best use of those resources - otherwise known as cost/benefit analysis.
3. If the world spent 50% of world GDP on efforts to combat greenhouse gasses, we would reduce total greenhouse gas emissions by about 1-3%, depending on whose models you use. This might result in a temperature reduction of about .01 to .1 degree, again depending on whose models you use. That amount of reduction is not enough to actually make any difference.
4. Meanwhile, efforts to feed the hungry, clean up other forms of pollution, pay for medical care, help third world countries develop so that they pollute less, would all go begging.
5. Those who promote climate change tend to ignore facts that don't fit their preconceptions - Arctic ice is thicker than they thought, Antarctic ice is growing, solar activity actually DOES affect variations in global temperatures (who'da thunk!).
1. There are limited resources in this world.
2. We need to decide what's the best use of those resources - otherwise known as cost/benefit analysis.
3. If the world spent 50% of world GDP on efforts to combat greenhouse gasses, we would reduce total greenhouse gas emissions by about 1-3%, depending on whose models you use. This might result in a temperature reduction of about .01 to .1 degree, again depending on whose models you use. That amount of reduction is not enough to actually make any difference.
4. Meanwhile, efforts to feed the hungry, clean up other forms of pollution, pay for medical care, help third world countries develop so that they pollute less, would all go begging.
5. Those who promote climate change tend to ignore facts that don't fit their preconceptions - Arctic ice is thicker than they thought, Antarctic ice is growing, solar activity actually DOES affect variations in global temperatures (who'da thunk!).
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