Deseret News | Stop crying about BYU's 'advantage'

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Stop crying about BYU's 'advantage'

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this is silly | 2:13 p.m. June 15, 2009

BYU got a great recruit in heaps..theoretically. We'll see if the hype is deserved. Theyve done it before and theyll do it again. It shouldnt be a shock to anybody that byu can score a highly sought after player who happens to be lds. Big deal. Its a good get for them and it means nothing about their program to be able to cash in on church affiliation, particularly when that player may start for 4 years. And about the missionary thing and maturity..The relationship between maturity and missionary isnt as strong as some of you would like to believe. Im an agnostic ute fan who grew up in Orem and i can tell you that those who choose to go on missions are as diverse as those who dont. Some are mature, some are far from it. Some learn great lessons from them. Some learn all the wrong lessons. I find the conclusion that a mission=character a little offensive...especially in the context of a football player. Bronco's self appointed role as football coach+spiritual coordinator is silly and a little sophmoric to me. Hes a football coach. Coach football.

lasvegasblue | 2:44 p.m. June 15, 2009

Hailstorm-actually it is spelled pseudo. So much for your credibility. Grind your pseudo christian intellectual axe somewhere else.

To: UofW2004 | 2:50 p.m. June 15, 2009

No, it doesn't sound like you're bitter at all .

First of all, we have to play Wyoming because they are in our conference. It's not "regional thing." We can't help who is in our conference. Yes, we played one DII school. You've never done that?

I checked the Power Rankings for the past three years, at the end of the season and at week 5, when the first rankings come out. Not only was BYU ahead of Washington at all six points I checked, but BYU improved rankings over the course of the year, while Washington declined in all cases.

I also dispute the PAC10 being one of the best conferences. What was the head-to-head last year between the PAC10 and the MWC? Give me a break.

Comments continue below

citizen16 | 3:20 p.m. June 15, 2009

This article is right on. Every time some other team loses something to BYU (especially Pac-10) teams, they whine about BYU's "advantages." If it really was such an advantage BYU would be competing for the National Championship every year and USC would be sending its star players into the Peace Corps for two years. Neither of those things are going to happen.

The disadvantages of recruiting at BYU are MUCH MUCH more challenging than any advantage from missions. And we're talking about 2% of the US population here who are LDS so there are still 98% of high school athletes that UW has more advantages in recruiting.

Maybe it's just that no one wants to play at UW regardless of their religion.

U of U Mormon | 3:35 p.m. June 15, 2009

If I was Bishop I would tell my athlete kids to go to Utah.

re: u of u mormon | 3:46 p.m. June 15, 2009

Would that be because of Utah's strict honor code?

I'm also interested what's the difference between a U of U Mormon compared to a BYU Mormon? Is there a difference?

Anonymous | 4:01 p.m. June 15, 2009

BYU just win your bowl games then come talk

RR | 4:04 p.m. June 15, 2009

I love it! People can't get away from talking about BYU, even the ute writers! Even when they have big years, they have to write about BYU and find ways to belittle them. Win or lose, everyone loves to talk about BYU. It's great to be a fan of BYU!

To this is silly | 4:05 p.m. June 15, 2009

You were doing pretty good until you decided to bash on Bronco for being the self-appointedspiritual leader of the football players at BYU. You just proved to everyone how truly ignorant you are when it comes to BYU. It is a religious, private university whose football coach gets an annual interview with a member of the board of trustees. I know for a fact there is nothing "self-appointed" about what does with his responsibilities as a coach at BYU.

A Utah Man's opinion | 4:37 p.m. June 15, 2009

Good article. Anyone who complains of an unfair advantage by BYU is just a baby. Stop whining and play ball.

re: RR | 4:45 p.m. June 15, 2009

Was it great when TCU and Utah smacked you in the mouth? Or when you lost to an another average Pac-10 team in Vegas? Or when you had to make the long drive to the nearest Deseret Industries to deposit your "Quest For Perfection" shirt?

Rock is the Jazz writer, not the Utes.

Seems like even during a BYU article, you seem to have your mind on the Utes. Jealous?

Anonymous | 4:54 p.m. June 15, 2009

Rock on, RockMonster! Sore losers, all of 'em.

BYU fan | 5:21 p.m. June 15, 2009

Ute fans are so mean. I was picked on in school for wearing a BYU shirt. Ute fans were never picked on by BYU fans.

Utah fans!!!! | 5:25 p.m. June 15, 2009

Dream on little yewts.........to bad you missed several recruiting opportunities!!!!!!!!

GO COUGARS!!!

Anonymous | 6:05 p.m. June 15, 2009

Rock's article reveals his own desperate need to grow up!

SAD

Anonymous | 6:45 p.m. June 15, 2009

Missions do not help the athletes perform better... baird is ignorant plain and simple.....

Since Utes are so good | 6:56 p.m. June 15, 2009

at twisting stats to their best light and BYU's worst (admitedly easy this year, on both ends), then here's what I see in the future:

2 more years of mediocrity for Utah, with no national respect because they can't put two good seasons together, and despise anyone who can.

Capitalizing on home games against TCU and Utah, BYU wins ANOTHER MWC championship, avenging the Ute smackdown with yet ANOTHER last minute, last gasp, seizing victory-from-the-jaws-of-defeat pass to the new incarnation of Austin Collie (choose your poison, there are several just waiting to fill his shoes).

BYU will end the season ranked. Again. Utah fans will gnash their teeth about it. Again. Utah may or may not end the season ranked. Probably not, based on history.

I do see this consistently for Utah though - your fans will continue to come on BYU articles and will continue to be your arrogant, insolent selves. At this, you are consistently good. Not much else. Not consistently anyway.

I have BYU/OU tickets!! | 6:57 p.m. June 15, 2009

To Don Stone aka Dawgishly:

I know that Washington fans are over Heaps already. Remember, our season ended six months ago in a manner that left us very disappointed, and we are desperate for something to talk about. You can appreciate how "high" we were after plastering UCLA by 60 points. We (me included) turned around and complained that we could only beat Wyoming by the following week (show up to play!).

As fans we messed up last year. We put unrealistic expectations on the team. Rather than enjoying the experience with them, we sat down and over-analyzed every call, every mistake (this is the team they gave up a sack to?)

The BYU age advantage is not nearly as significant as the Honor Code disadvantage. Please recall we expelled a over a dozen highly regarded athletes over the Crowton years. We can no longer recruit talent. We are almost exclusively limited to LDS kids. We become very excited when we get the combination of both.

Looking forward to being at the Dallas game, hope we give the boys more than 1 second per victory to celebrate this year.

Go cougs

to since the utes are so good | 8:10 p.m. June 15, 2009

do you base this on any fact or simply looking into your crystal ball? Is byu's defense suddenly going to have athletes? "Any Number" of receivers are waiting to fill the void of Austin Collie?....Give me a break. BYU's defense is sloooow and now your offense while still very good isnt the same. You lose 4 linemen too remember. Lastly, the Utes feel very comfortable in Edwards stadium seeing as they've won 6 of the last 8 there. Notice how I actually argued with some information rather closing my eyes and making predictions with nothing. Im not saying the the Utes will be as they were last year....They might be but until we see how good Corbin Louks is nobody knows. At the very least, I like my chances against byu.

DieHardCougar | 8:39 p.m. June 15, 2009

I read this article in the paper yesterday and thought it was spot on. Of course, that's assuming that Baird said what Rock claims he said. Anyone that claims BYU has an advantage because of the mission thing is obviously not being very objective. It's clear that if those quotes are accurate, Baird is bitter about losing Heaps to the Cougars. I hope Heaps does well. I like the idea of Heaps, Nelson, Lark, and Munns duking it out for the starting QB position next year. The best out of that group is going to be scary good.

when you say | 9:19 p.m. June 15, 2009

Wisconsin (or make that budweiser) you've said it all....from one Cheesehead to the rest of you...see you at the away Y games in Vegas....and maybe even San Diego...

MaxPower | 10:19 p.m. June 15, 2009

Gordon Monson wrote essentially the same thing last year. Again if it's such an advantage, why don't other schools do it?

to to since the utes are so good | 11:01 p.m. June 15, 2009

Great rebuttal. I don't have the stats that far back, could you check for me please the number of Utah wins in Provo over, say, the last 35 years?

You pick a convenient number and run with it. It must really gall you that despite the collective combined logic of the entire Ute Nation, BYU is consistently ranked when we really haven't done anything compared to the mighty Utes.

Keep picking your numbers and pounding the table with them. I really like your chances in LES come November too.

RE: Since the utes are so good | 12:35 a.m. June 16, 2009

Still the crystal ball heh? Where is this byu "consistent ranking?" Why should I care? You can take the phantom ranking, the slooowwww defense, the much worse offensive line and the minus collie wide receiver corps. Ill take the speed, the athletes, the wins, and the actual ability to argue a point.

Re: 12:18 p.m. | 12:55 a.m. June 16, 2009

Wow, way to read one whole sentence of my post and ignore the rest of it, and blow the whole rest of it completely out of context. Typical arrogant Ute fan.

I never said BYU was known for it's speed. All I was saying was that so many people view BYU as this molasses squad when it's simply not true. If BYU was that incredibly slow they would NOT have gone 10-3. If there's some other way they went 10-3, then you should explain to me what it is.

Since the Utes are so good | 7:49 a.m. June 16, 2009

Sorry about the last entry, didn't realize it wouldn't format right.

Yr AP
2008 25
2007 14
2006 16
2005 -
2004 -
2003 -
2002 -
2001 25
2000 -
1999 -
1998 -
1997 -
1996 5
1995 -
1994 18
1993 -
1992 -
1991 23
1990 22
1989 22
1988 -
1987 -
1986 -
1985 16
1984 1
1983 7
1982 -
1981 13
1980 12
1979 13
1978 -
1977 20

I'll let you find the Ute's ranking over the same period of time.

thin ice | 7:57 a.m. June 16, 2009

RE: The Real Disadvantage

"Any athlete who had either no morals or questionable ones isn't going to want to go to a school where they can't "party" after their games and on the weekends."
Let's say drinking is the issue. Would it be "immoral" for a young man that wants to drink not to choose BYU? I agree in part with what you're saying, but not all of these recruits that reject BYU are "immoral". They are uncomfortable with the BYU lifestyle such as... (devotionals, MTC, Provo Temple, Sunday shut-down of almost everything, FHE, LDS students avoiding dating non-LDS students, no beards and strict hair codes and on and on.) I admire the non-LDS students and athletes that attend BYU. It's not easy for any BYU student to live up to the BYU standards, but it's much tougher for those that don't claim those standards.

Since the Utes are so good... | 8:01 a.m. June 16, 2009

Crystal ball? Nice intellectual rebuttal from a Ute.

11-22-08 Utah 48 BYU 24
11-24-07 BYU 17 Utah 10
11-25-06 BYU 33 Utah 31
11-19-05 Utah 41 BYU 34 ot
11-20-04 Utah 52 BYU 21
11-22-03 Utah 3 BYU 0
11-23-02 Utah 13 BYU 6
11-17-01 BYU 24 Utah 21
11-24-00 BYU 34 Utah 27
11-20-99 Utah 20 BYU 17
11-21-98 BYU 26 Utah 24
11-22-97 Utah 20 BYU 14
11-23-96 BYU 37 Utah 17
11-18-95 Utah 34 BYU 17
11-19-94 Utah 34 BYU 31
11-20-93 Utah 34 BYU 31
11-21-92 BYU 31 Utah 22
11-23-91 BYU 48 Utah 17
11-17-90 BYU 45 Utah 22
11-18-89 BYU 70 Utah 31
11-19-88 Utah 57 BYU 28
11-21-87 BYU 21 Utah 18
11-22-86 BYU 35 Utah 21
11-23-85 BYU 38 Utah 28
11-17-84 BYU 24 Utah 14
11-19-83 BYU 55 Utah 7

Since the Utes are so good cont. | 8:06 a.m. June 16, 2009

11-20-82 BYU 17 Utah 12
11-21-81 BYU 56 Utah 28
11-22-80 BYU 56 Utah 6
11-17-79 BYU 27 Utah 0
11-18-78 Utah 23 BYU 22
11-5-77 BYU 34 Utah 27
11-20-76 BYU 34 Utah 12
11-15-75 BYU 51 Utah 20
11-23-74 BYU 48 Utah 20
11-24-73 BYU 46 Utah 22
11-18-72 BYU 16 Utah 7

Seems I picked about the right place to start counting - BYU has one 25 of the last 37 games, better than 2 to 1. Of course, you could (and would) pick a different place to start counting and come up with a Utah advantage.

That's the point, but you manage to comb around it. 1984 is perhaps less relevant, but not irrelevant. 2008 is perhaps more relevant, but it is still history.

re: So good | 9:24 a.m. June 16, 2009

Utah - 9
BYU - 6
Last 15 games played.

Utah - 6
BYU - 4
Last 10 games played.

Utah - 3
BYU - 2
Last 5 games played.

I pick these arbitrary numbers because I can clearly remember these events. When you have to open a dusty history book to see what happened in 1972, NOBODY CARES. These are relevant. Who won when RICHARD NIXON was President, is not.

More relevant numbers:

Utah - 6
BYU - 2
Last 8 games in LES

Utah - 4
BYU - 4
Conference Championships since inseption of MWC.

Utah - 2
BYU - 0
Undefeated seasons, and BCS victories.

Step out of your history lessen and into the real world. BYU has taken a back seat to the Utes in recent history, history that actually matters in today's landscape. BYU will always have the good ole days from the 80's. Unfortunately, they are the only ones who remember.

Figures | 9:29 a.m. June 16, 2009

It figures a Yner fan would only take the series back to 1972 to support their own bias. This is pretty much the time when the Yner football team crawled out of the dirt into existence. You can thank Lavell Edwards for your decent seasons; beyond that, the cougars have been pretty pitiful.

If you go back all the way, you'd find the utes have "won" 53 of the last 86 games.

Re: Figures | 10:00 a.m. June 16, 2009

Congrdulations. Now are you going to throw a parade for being #2 again. LOL

Y'ner here, checking in | 10:11 a.m. June 16, 2009

Last three games, BYU 2, Utah 1.

Last seven games, BYU 5, Utah 2.

But you see, when we do it we're Y'ners. When you do it, you are self-impressed with your own brilliance.

The last time Utah had a great season... followed by three years in the wilderness.

Utah fans are the ones that always want to deny history that either doesn't glorify them or does honor the Y.

By the way, before LaVell Edwards, the U beat the Y a LOT! You at least better than the Y. But you were still awful.

re: Y'ner here | 10:29 a.m. June 16, 2009

Sorry, but your BYU education has failed you.

Last seven games:

Utah 5
BYU 2

BYU wins in 06 & 07 on the last play of the game. Utah won the other 5 games, including the 4 previous to 06.

The only stint where the numbers favor BYU is 2 of the last 3. Once you expand past that, the numbers show the turn towards the Utes.

Thank you for tossing that softball.

Realist | 10:32 a.m. June 16, 2009

Get real everyone. You are in the valley of the dead. The U recruits LDS and the Y recruits LDS. This argument will continue to a crutch for such teams as Washington. I am actually surprised that Alabama Fans did not use that line of missionaries being older.

The MWC will never produce a National Champion in football ever, as long as the slow old rednecks from the SEC are in charge.

Just sayin' | 10:35 a.m. June 16, 2009

Congratulations Utah! You had a fabulous season! In so doing, instead of the Y, this year, YOU are the team to beat.

BYU will be the team to do it. And probably TCU. Maybe Air Force. And being Utah, you can never rule out UNLV.

And if there is any justice in the world, Wyoming will take a piece too.

Correct | 10:36 a.m. June 16, 2009

Y-ner: U won in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 & 2008. I think it is Utah 5, BYU 2 in last 7 games.

Ironic | 11:01 a.m. June 16, 2009

Since Utes are so good | 6:56 p.m. June 15, 2009.

In 2005 Utah had a new coaching staff and team... similar to how Michigan went 3-9 last year after switching coaches.

Talk about twisting stats Utah was 10-2 2003 and 12-0 in 2004... so there goes your fact about Utah not having 2 straight good seasons.

The difference Utah has 2 great seasons (04 and 08) in 5 years while BYU hasn't had one since 1996.

BYU prints "Quest for Perfection" t-shirts in the PRESEASON while Utah does it in post season.

Kennewick Coug | 11:04 a.m. June 16, 2009

"Any rule shouldn't give someone an advantage..." The BCS is a major "rule" that gives a select number of teams a MAJOR advantage. Would Mr. Baird advacate changing that rule?

TheHailstorm | 11:15 a.m. June 16, 2009

Making Dollars and Cents :
Utah BCS 2 games-- 31 million
8 bowl wins in a row--35.5 million
BYU BCS-0... $ 0
2/3 bowl wins-- 1.5 million

UTES
National recognition... Huge
Sugar bowl hype and highlights after last years win and Utah going for 9 bowl wins in a row ?
-Larger than life as the media darlings.
YBU
just another field horse .
But blue bloods you do try, I'll give you that.
I think going back to 72 is stretching it a bit and 84 ?
Ronald Reagan was in office.
Let's play this years game for all the marbles.

No advantage | 11:37 a.m. June 16, 2009

For all the alleged advantages of having RMs on their team, BYU has exhibited incredible consistency for losing the big games on their schedules. Perhaps the advantage BYU has is in their ability to schedule 1-AA teams with no complaint from their fan base since they believe a win is a win.

As a son of a military father, I have lived all over the U.S., and parts of Europe and Asia. In each of our LDS wards, ALL BUT ONE of our Bishops were BYU grads. The one that wasn't was Utah alum. THAT bishop was a Navy Pilot, and graduate of Utah's NROTC program. The Y doesn't have NROTC.

to: so good and Yner | 11:41 a.m. June 16, 2009

k.....we now know you cant check facts. Recent history goes to the Utes. Lets talk about the future. Is there any reason to believe byu has a better team this year than last year. You have the same slow defense. Youll get killed by athletic offenses. Your offense is still good...very good but not nearly as good as it was. You lost 4 great offensive lineman and your best ever wide receiver. That offense is no longer the perfect storm, although its still good. The question is it good enough to keep bailing out that defense? It wont be sometimes this year. And you play Oklahoma and Florida state. BYU goes somewhere between 6-6 and 9-3 this year. Thats who you are. Not bad, but is it what you want? On my side, we have concerns too. The Utes will go as far as Corbin Louks can take them and nobody knows how far that is. Elsewhere were set. But better catch us early because by the time we reach Provo in November the Utes will be a very good team. Am I wrong? Ill ackowledge a good argument. Make one.

TheHailstorm | 11:47 a.m. June 16, 2009

Dollar and Cents
Utah 8 bowl wins in a row--34.5 Million
YBU 2 of 3 wins .. 2.25 Million

Donation to BYU's program for 2 BCS Utah wins--
1.5 million
Just say thank you for the money to re-turf the LES field.. Just a simple thanks would be appreciated.

Come on , you can do it , just say " thank you Utes for all of the extra free money. "

4EverBlue | 12:12 p.m. June 16, 2009

There are lots of recruits that do not come to BYU because it is a Mormon School or the honor code. If it is an advantage, implement a two year mission and the same honor code.

This year for the Y | 12:41 p.m. June 16, 2009

BYU will certainly be better this year than last. 6-6 is just a vain imagination of a pathetic Ute fan, although 9-3 is a possibility. BYU has essentially the same team they had last year with a year more experience. Our O-Line is just as fat and hard to move as last year and the loss of Collie will actually be good for Max hall who will have to throw the ball somewhere. So here's my prediction:

BYU will beat the conference foes that they've beat for the last three years in a row as well as USU and Tulsa giving them at least 8 wins. They'll probably win at least one of the games against TCU, Utah and Florida State which are all at home giving them 9 wins MINIMUM. I don't anticipate a victory against Oklahoma, but anything can happen on any given Saturday. I expect 10-2 (losing to OK and TCU), wouldn't be surprised by 9-3 or 11-1. I'd be shocked by 12-0 or 8-4. BYU will not go 6-6 no matter how badly you sorry Utes wish that would happen.

jefe57 | 1:24 p.m. June 16, 2009

RE: Hailstorm

BYU's new turf is being paid for by BYU maintenance, which doesn't even involve the football budget. Take all your Ute money and bail out your linebacker that's in jail.

Canadiandy | 1:33 p.m. June 16, 2009

Considering these boys put their football futures on hold (most are never able to return) to sacrifice 2 years to make the world a better place, it is refreshing that BYU is there to support them. Many of these boys would never be offered a shot by any other school. So quit whining.

The dogs may yap, but the caravan carries on.

Money sharing | 1:34 p.m. June 16, 2009

As a Cougar, I have no problem acknowledging the Utes' "donation" to our program through the BCS games. We are supposed to be grateful for all blessings and trials. I am just curious to know if any Utes have thanked the Cougars for all the bowl money they got since 1974, and an extra big thanks to BYU for knocking down the Bowl Alliance/BCS door in 1996 and 2001. Otherwise Utah would not have even made it in 2004. That is a fact I think we all can agree on.

RE: money Sharing | 2:19 p.m. June 16, 2009

Your as knowledgeable as that guy earlier who claimed byu won 5 of the last 7. First of all BYU's bowl money from 74 til now was pennies and dimes compared to bcs money. It was nothing...I doubt byu themselves ever made a profit from those games and if so just barely. Secondly, the 1984 National Championship was awarded by the AP and had nothing to do with the bowl alliance or BCS since they didnt exist...and you went to the freaking holliday bowl. And you certainly didnt knock down the BCS/bowl alliance doors by going to the cotton bowl in 96 or Liberty bowl in 2001. Both were a conference championship tie in bowl. How is that knocking the door down?

re: This is the year | 2:22 p.m. June 16, 2009

Yep, having 4 new O-Line starters, two new starters at WR, and the same crappy defense definetly spells success for the Cougars.

What a dream world down in Cougartown. Everything is rosy all the time.

Collie was the best WR in your HISTORY. You're replacing him with a return missionary, who was ok before he left, and a kid who can't play nearly as well as he can talk. Sounds like a winning situation doesn't it.

A completely new O-Line, in a system that depends greatly on getting separation off the line and creating throwing lanes. BYU always has good line play, but 4 new starters never equals success for anyone who isn't Florida/Olklahoma/etc.

And worst of all is your terrible, slow and unathletic defense is still just that. Watching CSU and UNLV receivers run up and down the field will be a replay of last year.

Good luck to the Cougs, and their new "Quest To Accomplish What Utah Already Has, TWICE!"

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